This is not a hypothetical question although it sounds like a worst-case scenario. When my father entered a nursing home, he directed that his extensive collection of Civil War firearms and accoutrements be moved to a trusted friend's house outside the Commonwealth of MA. There were no political considerations, that simply was where the friend lived. Dad has since passed away. A few of the items were outside of the Civil War era, notably a 1913 M1911 pistol. Is there a way that I, as a Class A licensee, can take possession of this pistol? I have read so many pages of MA gun law and C&R requirements that I cannot remember where I stand!
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MA Test Case
- Thread starter dvl
- Start date
TonyD
One Shot One Maggie's Drawers
First, sorry for your loss. Second, I'm sure Len will be along to clarify but from what I've gathered from his previous posts it's legal to take possesion if they were will'ed to you. Like I said, Len is top notch on deciphering your screwed up laws and can clarify.
Thanks Tony. To make the scenario even more complicated, the pistol was not willed to me. My father's medical expenses were such that the will stipulates that the collection be sold. I would be obliged to buy the gun from his estate.
TonyD
One Shot One Maggie's Drawers
That is definately something Len, or even Ken, would have to address. I don't (and won't) live up there so I'm very ignorant to your (highly illegal) laws.
You may try to PM Len and direct him to this thread. Good luck, my friend.
You may try to PM Len and direct him to this thread. Good luck, my friend.
I'm so sorry for your loss, dvl.
As far as dad's 1911 goes...I think the only way that you would be able to get it is if you get a C&R license. Since it's out of state, you wouldn't be able to get it through an FFL because of our bloody AG. It may have been in MA, but it's not now. A C&R license, however, will cover the majority of what's out there older than 50 years. It takes about 3 months to get one +/-, costs $30.00 and is good for 3 years. You can get the application on the BATF website.
As far as dad's 1911 goes...I think the only way that you would be able to get it is if you get a C&R license. Since it's out of state, you wouldn't be able to get it through an FFL because of our bloody AG. It may have been in MA, but it's not now. A C&R license, however, will cover the majority of what's out there older than 50 years. It takes about 3 months to get one +/-, costs $30.00 and is good for 3 years. You can get the application on the BATF website.
dvl said:
This is really the only complication here, and it's a killer. If you had inherited them, there would have been no problem at all; simply have the executer ship them directly to you, no FFL required. As it stands, the only solution I see after having reviewed Ron Glidden's book and the BATFE regulations is the C&R license. That will allow you to purchase anything that's either 50+ years old or that's on the published list of firearms whose primary value is as collectors' items. Again, with the C&R license you can have those items that meet the requirements shipped directly to you.
Ken
dvl said:
I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong, however, I believe all you'll need to do after you get your license is to #1 - make copies of it. #2 - sign a copy and send it to whomever is responsible for carrying out your father's wishes, along with whatever the cost of the gun is. They can then ship it to you, or, you can go there with a copy of the C&R and do the transaction in person.
Once you get the 1911 - you'll need to fill out an FA-10 to submit to the state <gag>(....sorry...that part irritates me to no end), which you can pick up at most police stations.
dvl, fill out the C&R FFL form post-haste and you'll have no problems.
Please accept my condolences for your loss.
Not enough specific info to give you a definitive answer, so here's what I can tell you:
- The executor of an estate can do the transfer with nothing more than a FA-10 and the recipient's LTC. NO FFL required or advisable (they could NOT do the transfer legally).
- If the will SPECIFIES that the guns be sold, it is still up to the executor to sell to whomever they wish to fulfill the wishes of the deceased. Seems to me that the executor could sell the guns to you again with nothing more than FA-10s (NOT required for guns pre-1899, IIRC correctly the "antique guns" definition per MGLs).
- IANAL, but the terms of the disposal (sale vs. handing it off for no money) shouldn't have any relevance to MGLs on firearms or BATFE Regs on disposal of estate assets. If you need an attorney to tell you this, contact Atty Jesse Cohen (do a search here and you'll find his contact info). Jesse is the most knowledgeable atty on gun issues in the state of MA!
HTH
Tony, thanks for the vote of confidence. No need to PM me to read a message, I read all of them, at least up to now, as part of my Mod duties. Seems like we're getting very busy and not sure I'll be able to keep up that level forever, but for now I am.
Please accept my condolences for your loss.
Not enough specific info to give you a definitive answer, so here's what I can tell you:
- The executor of an estate can do the transfer with nothing more than a FA-10 and the recipient's LTC. NO FFL required or advisable (they could NOT do the transfer legally).
- If the will SPECIFIES that the guns be sold, it is still up to the executor to sell to whomever they wish to fulfill the wishes of the deceased. Seems to me that the executor could sell the guns to you again with nothing more than FA-10s (NOT required for guns pre-1899, IIRC correctly the "antique guns" definition per MGLs).
- IANAL, but the terms of the disposal (sale vs. handing it off for no money) shouldn't have any relevance to MGLs on firearms or BATFE Regs on disposal of estate assets. If you need an attorney to tell you this, contact Atty Jesse Cohen (do a search here and you'll find his contact info). Jesse is the most knowledgeable atty on gun issues in the state of MA!
HTH
Tony, thanks for the vote of confidence. No need to PM me to read a message, I read all of them, at least up to now, as part of my Mod duties. Seems like we're getting very busy and not sure I'll be able to keep up that level forever, but for now I am.
Just remember, all of this is "for the children".
I just went back and re-read the original post and noticed that I'd made an assumption that might be incorrect. [Reminder to self: When you assume, you make an ASS of U and ME.] If your father was a resident of Massachusetts at the time of his death, then his estate is legally in Massachusetts, including property that might be temporarily stored out of state. If that's the case, then the executor should be able to retreive the estate property (or have you do so as his agent), and then make a private sale here, without any FFL needed (C&R or otherwise). If your father was not a Massachusetts resident, then all the complications discussed apply.
Ken
Ken
