MA Storage question

[glockstar]

So I'm aware that all firearms need to be secured when not in use or being carried. I have a large safe and that is where I currently store them. As the collection grows its becoming obvious that either I will need a bigger safe or another form of "securing". Here's my question... if I had a dedicated room with a deadbolt on the door or bought one of those security doors would each gun still have to be locked or would the room itself be considered the safe and I woul d legally be compliant? Any info would be helpful thanks!

 

[ntomsw]

I think there was a story here on how someone did that and it didn't end well for them. Although I can't remember what the details were. (I also could be totally wrong)

 

[Kicker96FS]

I would still have a trigger lock on each gun or a rack with a lockable, removable rod with lock on it's end.

The case in Lowell is still out to lunch where the guy had a secure room or "vault" in his rented property, someone broke into it (took a couple of days I guess) and stole the guns, the DA wants to hang him from the nearest tree even though he followed the letter of the law.

Double up and you will avoid trouble, maybe.

 

[ntomsw]

I would still have a trigger lock on each gun or a rack with a lockable, removable rod with lock on it's end.

The case in Lowell is still out to lunch where the guy had a secure room or "vault" in his rented property, someone broke into it (took a couple of days I guess) and stole the guns, the DA wants to hang him from the nearest tree even though he followed the letter of the law.

Double up and you will avoid trouble, maybe.

Yes thank you. He is the one I am thinking of.

Let the record show, I am not OK with that, just wanted to let the OP know to be careful in this stupid state.

 

[Duece]

I dunno, ANYTHING that takes a couple of days to break into, well, I think by demonstration that IS pretty g'damn secure.

A trigger lock which is "ok" they would have had the weapons in seconds, removing oneis not all that hard where it would take a couple of days.

That's just plain ol' BS

As I was driving through Mass on Friday evening I was saying to my wife, I hate this state, I friggin hate this state
My state of my birth and home for 37 years and I had to leave, sad

 

[MisterHappy]

If your guns are stolen, you're screwed, regardless of your compliance with the laws. In the end, you may be vindicated (as was the person that was found ot be legally in compliance when his gun, which was in a locked case, in a cooler), but it will still suck.

Guns are evil, don'cha know?

 

[stiggy1972]

I feel keep the guns locked away from children and irresponsible people but come on trigger locks are a joke youtube shows u how to use a mini screwdriver and open in 3 seconds with all these storage laws it will take 20 min to pull your gun out when its needed during a home invasion.. get a fingerprint safe so u have a chance to save your family. whens the last time u saw a robber puling a gun out with a trigger lock on it

 

[MisterHappy]

It's a safe storage, not a protection from theft, law.

 

[shamrockjr]

If your guns are stolen, you're screwed, regardless of your compliance with the laws.

Yep. An unfortunate reality of the liberal minded criminal-pandering environment we live in.

 

[jasons]

Gun laws in MA are used to screw law-abiding gun owners, never to help them. You could lock your shit up in Fort Knox, but if some dirtbag breaks in and steals so much as a primer you will be raked through the coals.

 

[mousegunfan]

It's a safe storage, not a protection from theft, law.

This. If you follow the law and your guns are stolen you are not going to be raked over the coals, you are a victim, this is one of those MA fear myth's. The case in Lowell is a rented property, not his prime residence.

A locked room is sufficient for secure storage if that room was only a storage room, as would be a closet. Maybe not the best idea for you guns to prevent theft though. Just buy another safe and put it in that room.

 

[fshalor]

I feel keep the guns locked away from children and irresponsible people but come on trigger locks are a joke youtube shows u how to use a mini screwdriver and open in 3 seconds with all these storage laws it will take 20 min to pull your gun out when its needed during a home invasion.. get a fingerprint safe so u have a chance to save your family. whens the last time u saw a robber puling a gun out with a trigger lock on it

Trigger locks.... My melt down of yesterday was coming home, going through the normal process of "unlocking stuff", and my main HD primary defense weapon trigger lock wouldn't open. I'd switched it to a combo lock a while ago (cause I have too many freaking keys) and the darn combo lock wouldn't open. No question at all about whether it had the right combo. It simply failed after maybe 30 cycles.

Unloaded the weapon, checked it, took the action out and put the lock in a vice. Took a few seconds to open the lock, but now my old 870 has some nicks on the trigger guard.

Took the lock apart with a dremel and noted that the main connecting rod from the combo block to push the flapper and allow the lock to open had simply failed. This was a ~ $25 trigger/combo lock. Less than 3 months old.

I think I'm switching to those cheap throw away cable locks the shops send out with guns. That way I'm still covered "law" wise, but I can get into it in 3 seconds with my leatherman. (if/when the mechanism fails.)

Side story: I'd put a metal cup in the guard of the lock to prevent "shimming" of this lock for the very reason of knowing how easy it is to pop open trigger locks with a fish hook/metal shim. Ironic? no?

 

[jasons]

This. If you follow the law and your guns are stolen you are not going to be raked over the coals, you are a victim, this is one of those MA fear myth's.

Tell that to the people who have followed the law by reporting stolen firearms and subsequently been found "unsuitable" by their local Chieftain.

A locked room is sufficient for secure storage if that room was only a storage room, as would be a closet. Maybe not the best idea for you guns to prevent theft though. Just buy another safe and put it in that room.

Cite?

 

[WallHack]

Get a fingerprint safe so u have a chance to save your family

Yes, get one of those failure-prone safes that don't work if your finger is dirty/sweaty/covered in blood so you can just get fed up with changing batteries only to find out it STILL sucks and just use the backup key anyways.

 

[Rick1987]

It's a safe storage, not a protection from theft, law.

This!

The law isn't to prevent theft. Its to prevent unauthorized persons to use it. (children)

 

[jasons]

This!

The law isn't to prevent theft. Its to prevent unauthorized persons to use it. (children)

Really? Then why does it apply to people who don't have children? And why have people been prosecuted for failure to properly store firearms that were stolen by criminals?

 

[M1911]

Unloaded the weapon, checked it, took the action out and put the lock in a vice. Took a few seconds to open the lock, but now my old 870 has some nicks on the trigger guard.

No need for a vice. Most trigger locks are a simple ratchet mechanism and can be opened with a screwdriver.

 

[Rick1987]

Haha.

Because we live in the shithole MA people think we need to trigger lock, cable lock, mag well lock, chained, locking inside safe, safe anchored to concrete floor or welded to main support beam, safe enclosed inside room with steel door with 4 way dead bolts, and walls lined with 10 gauge steel, ceiling and floor must be reinforced concrete.

Also must have active monitored alarm system for gun safe room.

 

[Rick1987]

Really? Then why does it apply to people who don't have children? And why have people been prosecuted for failure to properly store firearms that were stolen by criminals?

.

STORAGE OF GUNS:*Warning:*The penalties for failure to comply are quite severe.The law requires guns to be stored in a specific manner. All guns, when not in use, with the exception of primitive firearms, must be stored or kept “secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device,” to prevent unauthorized use. Penalties are assessed even if no underage person obtains access.(Chapter 140, section 131L)

 

[jasons]

This!

The law isn't to prevent theft. Its to prevent unauthorized persons to use it. (children)

Anyone who thinks that the storage law is just about safe storage for people with kids has not read the actual law.

Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

(b) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a firearm, rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon, by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and in the case of a large capacity weapon or machine gun, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(c) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon and such weapon was stored or kept in a place where a person under the age of 18 who does not possess a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B may have access without committing an unforeseeable trespass, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(d) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a rifle or shotgun that is a large capacity weapon, firearm or machine gun was stored or kept in a place where a person under the age of 18 may have access, without committing an unforeseeable trespass, by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years, nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(e) A violation of the provisions of this section shall be evidence of wanton or reckless conduct in any criminal or civil proceeding if a person under the age of 18 who was not a trespasser or was a foreseeable trespasser acquired access to a weapon, unless such person possessed a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B and was permitted by law to possess such weapon, and such access results in the personal injury to or the death of any person.

(f) This section shall not apply to the storage or keeping of any firearm, rifle or shotgun with matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or prior to the year 1899, or to any replica of any such firearm, rifle or shotgun if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

A thief is not a "lawfully authorized user." People have been prosecuted for "allowing" their guns to be stolen in MA. It MA it is very possible to be a victim of theft and then a victim of the state as well.

 

[Rick1987]

I was just giving children as an example. I clearly stated unauthorized persons.

 

[Rick1987]

I was just giving children as an example. I clearly stated unauthorized persons.

The law does not say you have to prevent theft.

By what the law says I can store my gun on my couch with a tamper resistant mechanical safety device and be fine.

Not that I would but legally I could.

 

[jasons]

I was just giving children as an example. I clearly stated unauthorized persons.

You also said:

The law isn't to prevent theft.

You were kind of right; the law isn't designed to prevent theft but rather to punish otherwise law-abinding gun owners who are the victims of theft (among other things.) In any case a thief is not a "lawfully authorized user," so the law absolutely does apply to victims of theft.

By what the law says I can store my gun on my couch with a tamper resistant mechanical safety device and be fine.

No, the law says:

It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

If you "allow" a firearm to be stolen, how can you possibly argue that "such weapon [is] inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user?"

 

[spcantwell]

from what I have read its seems that as long as no 'un authorised' person gets to your guns, its considered 'safe storage'... if someone does, then it doesn't matter what you did (could be in a bank vault with armed security guards) it wouldn't count as 'safe storage' and the law would come down on you link a ton of bricks

 

[Rick1987]

You also said:


You were kind of right; the law isn't designed to prevent theft but rather to punish otherwise law-abinding gun owners who are the victims of theft (among other things.) I any case a thief is not a "lawfully authorized user," so the law absolutely does apply to victims of theft.

So every gun owner is required to have a safe? As to prevent theft?

I'm kinda confused now.

Last time I checked I could legally keep a handgun in my dresser, night stand, or on top of the tank of my shiter, with a trigger lock and be perfectly legal.

 

[jasons]

So every gun owner is required to have a safe? As to prevent theft?

I'm kinda confused now.

Last time I checked I could legally keep a handgun in my dresser, night stand, or on top of the tank of my shiter, with a trigger lock and be perfectly legal.

The law doesn't define "tamper-resistant" or "properly engaged." A prosecutor could argue that if a "person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user" (a thief in this hypothetical) has or had access to the firearm then then the lock or other safety device could not possibly have been "tamper-resistant" or "properly engaged." It would then be up to a jury to decide, and this is MA....

Also for what it's worth the law doesn't provide any sort of indemnification at all for gun owners, so using a safe is not necessarily a get out of jail free card. You could store your guns in your own private Fort Knox and still be exposed under 131L. This is just another sad reality of being a law-abiding gun owner in MA.

from what I have read its seems that as long as no 'un authorised' person gets to your guns, its considered 'safe storage'... if someone does, then it doesn't matter what you did (could be in a bank vault with armed security guards) it wouldn't count as 'safe storage' and the law would come down on you link a ton of bricks

Basically, but that statement would be more accurate if you had used the word "could" instead of "would."

 

[Rick1987]

The law doesn't define "tamper-resistant" or "properly engaged." A prosecutor could argue that if a "person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user" (a thief in this hypothetical) has or had access to the firearm then then lock or other safety device could not possibly have been "tamper-resistant" or "properly engaged." It would then be up to a jury to decide, and this is MA....

Then no such tamper-resistant device exists. With enough time and tools anything can be defeated.

As well as almost any safe. I could defeat most gun safes with a deck saw.

 

[jasons]

Then no such tamper-resistant device exists. With enough time and tools anything can be defeated.

As well as almost any safe. I could defeat most gun safes with a deck saw.

True. That's why I said and believe:

.....the law isn't designed to prevent theft but rather to punish otherwise law-abinding gun owners who are the victims of theft (among other things.)

 

[FrugalFannie]

So every gun owner is required to have a safe? As to prevent theft?

I'm kinda confused now.

Last time I checked I could legally keep a handgun in my dresser, night stand, or on top of the tank of my shiter, with a trigger lock and be perfectly legal.

You are correct.

A room is not considered a locked container. I'm sure someone will find the case where this was proven. I'm too lazy to find it.

The Lowell clusterf%$# is an opportunity to make a victim into a criminal because the Lowell Police chief thinks his residents are subjects not citizens.

 

[Franco]

Yes but its is your duty as a responsible gun owner if in MA or not to secure your firearms to the best of your ability as possible to avoid most liablity. Prosectutors love to find holes and flaws in a persons story or actions to hang them as an example. The point is you must be ahead of these jackels if you want to keep your suitablity especially in MA.

Only using triggers locks and leaving it in a drawer is not advisable for many reason that you care to overlook.