MA SJC Approves Running from Police now OK

[Thirwell1216]

Saw a story last night on the news about a suspect in a robbery case getting off on a illegal handgun possession charge because he was "wrongly chased" by the police because of his complexion. What has this state become? I don't think he had to go through the permit application process or NICS when he picked up his handgun from his neighbor hood dealer.

http://www.wbur.org/news/2016/09/20...men-may-have-legitimate-reason-to-flee-police

 

[92G]

Per SJC, seems my white ass is not authorized to run away from LE. I'm pretty slow anyway.

 

[GM-GUY]

Isn't it true that whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks? I saw that stat in another thread. If that is true, do white get a free pass too?

 

[MachineHead]

Gotta work on getting a tan, I guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Lucky for me, I am not subject to arrest, because I have the white privilege.

 

[browncoat]

Isn't it true that whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks? I saw that stat in another thread. If that is true, do white get a free pass too?

This is not true. More white people get shot by police, but it is out of a much larger population. Black people are much more likely to be killed.

 

[MachineHead]

Screw it, let them run from the cops. I'm sure the cops won't be losing any sleep over having less work to do. When these thugs start infiltrating liberal towns and cities, then it'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Sometimes you just have to stand back and let things collapse under their own weight.

 

[dennism]

I do not understand this ruling. Anyone know the consequences of the change?

 

[Oldarmy]

I do not understand this ruling. Anyone know the consequences of the change?

Cops won't be running off the donut fat?

 

[amm5061]

I do not understand this ruling. Anyone know the consequences of the change?

I don't get it either, it seems to me that this is a non-ruling just to get this perp out of their court room. I'm not sure what arguments they made to make the SJC believe the cops chased the guy solely on the color of his skin, as opposed to the standard "he was acting suspiciously and then ran, so he must have been up to no good" excuse.

 

[ToddDubya]

I'm good with it. Not wanting to be hassled by the police is not cause for arrest.

 

[92G]

I'm good with it. Not wanting to be hassled by the police is not cause for arrest.

would have to respectfully disagree.

LE arrive on a scene and someone they potentially suspect as a perpetrator flees the scene. they're faced with a split second judgment call to pursue or not. they simply do not have the 20/20 hindsight most of us enjoy. so they decide not to pursue based on these absurd SJC rulings and 10 minutes later the perpetrator generates another victim. all of which could have been prevented if they were allowed to pursue.

Better than running away from police would be understanding one's rights under our constitution. These absurd politically correct SJC rulings do nothing but prevent LE from fulfilling their duties.

 

[cb1]

This isn't exactly new legal territory. Both SCOTUS and the SJC have previously found that flight from a location does not on its own provide police with the reasonable suspicion necessary to justify a seizure (Terry stop). It can only be a factor considered by police. You have the right not to speak or interact with the police.

A quick read of the opinion shows this case isn't very exciting. The police were told three black guys in dark clothing broke into a house, two were wearing hoodies. An officer later spotted two guys walking down the street and tried to stop them. One was wearing a hoodie. They were not observed carrying anything that could have been the stolen items. The fact that the two guys attempted to avoid police was not enough to justify the stop. How many black guys wearing hoodies are you likely to encounter in Roxbury in December? More than one I'm sure. The officer simply didn't have enough to show that this particular black guy in a hoodie was reasonably suspected of the crime.

 

[Olympus Racing]

How stupid the justice system has become is ridiculous and certainly not funny any more.
The worst days are ahead fellas, not behind us.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I do not understand this ruling. Anyone know the consequences of the change?

Anyone with a basic understanding of Perry Mason or Law & Order understands it. LOL (Or if you stayed at a HI-Express last night.)

The cops can't just search you for the flip of it. We are all in agreement on that. So they can't walk up and search him. Especially on the vague description (that basically narrows it down to EVERY group of black men in Roxbury in December - black hoodie, red hoodie, dark clothing) that was provided.

He panicked and ran. They had s-word to go on and chased him. I'm sure we are all in agreement that whether the cops ask to pat you down on the street or decide to chase your chubby ass first, the search is illegal. (Yes, the gun was nearby, but obviously it was covered in his prints or he'd not be tied to it in the first place. And I bet it was still warm when they caught up to him.)

The implication is a lot of Lennie Brisco'ing will be done out there. Chase a guy because he ran, anything you find on him if he's NOT your guy, you let him walk. But tell him to be on the lookout for the real perp before the next commercial break or you'll send him tuh Ry-kuhz.

Now, I wonder what this will do to DUI Checkpoints on the folks that decide to take a (hopefully) legal U-turn to avoid the checkpoint. Is a U-turn reasonable suspicion?

 

[Mike S]

https://twitter.com/GOALupdate/status/778583911605514240

 

[Horrible]

Does anyone in power in this state actually follow the law anymore? Or do they all just make shit up as they go now?

 

[ToddDubya]

would have to respectfully disagree.

LE arrive on a scene and someone they potentially suspect as a perpetrator flees the scene. they're faced with a split second judgment call to pursue or not. they simply do not have the 20/20 hindsight most of us enjoy. so they decide not to pursue based on these absurd SJC rulings and 10 minutes later the perpetrator generates another victim. all of which could have been prevented if they were allowed to pursue.

Better than running away from police would be understanding one's rights under our constitution. These absurd politically correct SJC rulings do nothing but prevent LE from fulfilling their duties.

Agreed.

There's room for improvement on both sides.

 

[terraformer]

I will take the contrary view and say that this holds as consistent with the notion that if a cop can't stop you, you are otherwise free to go. Because if a cop can't stop you for no reason, but then because you don't believe there is a reason and you continue on your way, holding that "running away" is then PC basically means one is NEVER free to go because you must always stop when asked to... In other words, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that PC will be found regardless of response by person stopped. Don't get hung up on "running away" versus "walking away". It's the same thing legally.

And BTW, if you don't think cops who engage in S&F don't know this game, you are naive. It's what makes S&F in NYC and other liberal shitholes so effective.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I will take the contrary view and say that this holds as consistent with the notion that if a cop can't stop you, you are otherwise free to go. Because if a cop can't stop you for no reason, but then because you don't believe there is a reason and you continue on your way, holding that "running away" is then PC basically means one is NEVER free to go because you must always stop when asked to... In other words, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that PC will be found regardless of response by person stopped. Don't get hung up on "running away" versus "walking away". It's the same thing legally.

And BTW, if you don't think cops who engage in S&F don't know this game, you are naive. It's what makes S&F in NYC and other liberal shitholes so effective.

I'm with him

 

[Rob Boudrie]

This is not true. More white people get shot by police, but it is out of a much larger population. Black people are much more likely to be killed.

I'd wager that my chances of getting "I need to see your LTC sir "rather than "on the ground mofo!!" are much greater for me than for a black male.

 

[rogues]

And this is the same court we're going to have to deal with to get the AG's reinterpretation fixed?

 

[ISOTOX]

Per SJC, seems my white ass is not authorized to run away from LE. I'm pretty slow anyway.

Black lives matter....Get it!

 

[MaverickNH]

I will take the contrary view and say that this holds as consistent with the notion that if a cop can't stop you, you are otherwise free to go. Because if a cop can't stop you for no reason, but then because you don't believe there is a reason and you continue on your way, holding that "running away" is then PC basically means one is NEVER free to go because you must always stop when asked to... In other words, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that PC will be found regardless of response by person stopped. Don't get hung up on "running away" versus "walking away". It's the same thing legally.

And BTW, if you don't think cops who engage in S&F don't know this game, you are naive. It's what makes S&F in NYC and other liberal shitholes so effective.

Well now I'm conflicted...

Walk, run, bicycle, Moped under 50cc, canoe, kayak, paraglider - anything other than a licensed motor vehicle, boat or aircraft and you can be on your way if you believe the is no reasonable suspicion?

 

[terraformer]

Well now I'm conflicted...

Walk, run, bicycle, Moped under 50cc, canoe, kayak, paraglider - anything other than a licensed motor vehicle, boat or aircraft and you can be on your way if you believe the is no reasonable suspicion?

I wasn't the most eloquent. It's not that you can refuse a lawful order to stop, but that if you head the other way when you see a cop, that can't be used as PC for stopping you. This is what happens in S&F cases. People see the cops and head the other direction prior to be told to stop, or they are ambushed and evade the ambush and then the cops claim they ran or assaulted them. Either way, the stop becomes justified because they headed away from the cop.

The kid in the case cited above was found running and told to stop BECAUSE he was running (away from a shooting). That and his race matched the shooters was the sum total of the PC cited to stop him. This case was tied to S&F from the get go and while it sounds completely reasonable to stop someone running from the scene of a shooting, the reality is everyone runs away from a shooting. What made this kid special? So basically anyone running away can be stopped?

 

[MachineHead]

I wasn't the most eloquent. It's not that you can refuse a lawful order to stop, but that if you head the other way when you see a cop, that can't be used as PC for stopping you. This is what happens in S&F cases. People see the cops and head the other direction prior to be told to stop, or they are ambushed and evade the ambush and then the cops claim they ran or assaulted them. Either way, the stop becomes justified because they headed away from the cop.

The kid in the case cited above was found running and told to stop BECAUSE he was running (away from a shooting). That and his race matched the shooters was the sum total of the PC cited to stop him. This case was tied to S&F from the get go and while it sounds completely reasonable to stop someone running from the scene of a shooting, the reality is everyone runs away from a shooting. What made this kid special? So basically anyone running away can be stopped?

Does this ruling have any bearing on DUI traffic checkpoints? I'm just curious.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I wasn't the most eloquent. It's not that you can refuse a lawful order to stop, but that if you head the other way when you see a cop, that can't be used as PC for stopping you. This is what happens in S&F cases. People see the cops and head the other direction prior to be told to stop, or they are ambushed and evade the ambush and then the cops claim they ran or assaulted them. Either way, the stop becomes justified because they headed away from the cop.

The kid in the case cited above was found running and told to stop BECAUSE he was running (away from a shooting). That and his race matched the shooters was the sum total of the PC cited to stop him. This case was tied to S&F from the get go and while it sounds completely reasonable to stop someone running from the scene of a shooting, the reality is everyone runs away from a shooting. What made this kid special? So basically anyone running away can be stopped?

Remember a few years ago there was something (I think it might have been a bank robbery) and the police blocked in a ton of traffic and searched every car for the suspect?

Don't recall how that ended (legality issue) however.

 

[exo]

I will take the contrary view and say that this holds as consistent with the notion that if a cop can't stop you, you are otherwise free to go. Because if a cop can't stop you for no reason, but then because you don't believe there is a reason and you continue on your way, holding that "running away" is then PC basically means one is NEVER free to go because you must always stop when asked to... In other words, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that PC will be found regardless of response by person stopped. Don't get hung up on "running away" versus "walking away". It's the same thing legally.

And BTW, if you don't think cops who engage in S&F don't know this game, you are naive. It's what makes S&F in NYC and other liberal shitholes so effective.

That's all well and good, except the SJC is being racist by applying this to blacks, only.

 

[terraformer]

Remember a few years ago there was something (I think it might have been a bank robbery) and the police blocked in a ton of traffic and searched every car for the suspect?

Don't recall how that ended (legality issue) however.

In Aurora CO IIRC, definitely CO though. Yes, very big deal. They had the guy stopped and triangulated via a tracker in the bag of money. They knew he was in that group of cars. They seized everyone for hours at gun point. Not sure how it turned out either.

 

[TLB]

This is not true. More white people get shot by police, but it is out of a much larger population. Black people are much more likely to be killed.

I believe that whites are more likely to be killed, but blacks more likely to be roughed up. The liberal Harvard professor was surprised by his own study results IIRC.