MA shut down well into June???.....Wife’s work says so.

They are also a special case because they actually trust and listen to their government. You don't get dozens of NES-types telling you this is all a hoax and they're going to refuse to wear a mask and lick everyone they meet like a cocker spaniel.

Notice the more a population trusts it's government, the lower their infection rate is. Hmmmm.

The reality is if people just wore masks to stop OUTGOING spread and distanced as much as possible, this would be a nothingburger.

So what you're saying is that we should willfully contradict the medical advice of the Surgeon General of the United States?


View: https://twitter.com/surgeon_general/status/1233725785283932160?lang=en


And disregard the advice of the nation's top infectious disease expert, who says there's no reason for the general public to wear masks?

 
They are also a special case because they actually trust and listen to their government. You don't get dozens of NES-types telling you this is all a hoax and they're going to refuse to wear a mask and lick everyone they meet like a cocker spaniel.

Notice the more a population trusts it's government, the lower their infection rate is. Hmmmm.
No, but I HAVE noticed, if not the rate of positives then the rate of adverse outcomes tends to track with sun exposure (or D supplementation, in the case of the Nordic folks). [grin]

It doesn't help when the .gov is (a) (repeatedly) self-contradictory, and (b) pulls boner moves like virus patients into nursing homes. The response in the US has been a clownshow, and the driver of the clown car is named Fauci.
 
So what you're saying is that we should willfully contradict the medical advice of the Surgeon General of the United States?


View: https://twitter.com/surgeon_general/status/1233725785283932160?lang=en


And disregard the advice of the nation's top infectious disease expert, who says there's no reason for the general public to wear masks?




Yeah. At some point in the last 3 months, even the BEST expert has said something boneheaded.

Masks are pretty useless for CATCHING C19 in a store. But they are AWESOME at reducing the SPREADING of C19 in the same store.

Back in March, people were buying preventative masks. Now it's about transmission. And for 99.999% of the time, the 6' rule will allow you to skip masking.

Hell, if it wasn't for Czarlie (I like that one), I wouldn't wear a mask from the front door of my building until 32 seconds later when I unlock my office suite. (OK, 45 - after I grab some sand hanitizer in case some troglodyte licked a door knob.). I see no people and interact zero. My NEED for a mask is negative. I do it to keep Czarlie happy.

But I'll wear some sort of mask at the store. B/c I don't know if I'm + and might be transmitting. The odds are again near negative, but I'm not trying to F up the rest of the state for my own need to not feel embarrassed.
 
Yeah. At some point in the last 3 months, even the BEST expert has said something boneheaded.

Masks are pretty useless for CATCHING C19 in a store. But they are AWESOME at reducing the SPREADING of C19 in the same store.

Back in March, people were buying preventative masks. Now it's about transmission. And for 99.999% of the time, the 6' rule will allow you to skip masking.

Hell, if it wasn't for Czarlie (I like that one), I wouldn't wear a mask from the front door of my building until 32 seconds later when I unlock my office suite. (OK, 45 - after I grab some sand hanitizer in case some troglodyte licked a door knob.). I see no people and interact zero. My NEED for a mask is negative. I do it to keep Czarlie happy.

But I'll wear some sort of mask at the store. B/c I don't know if I'm + and might be transmitting. The odds are again near negative, but I'm not trying to F up the rest of the state for my own need to not feel embarrassed.

Okay, this is a legitimate question, not trying to be a wise ass. So we should be wearing masks in confined areas. Got it. But for how long do we do this, and why? Forget the issues with people touching things, therefore spreading this in other ways. That is a reality, and I guess a risk that perpetual wearers of masks are willing to live with (more on that later). But what happens if you get the virus? Are we all going to die? I cannot be the only one that hopes to get this thing soon and hopefully be done with it. I thought the purpose of distancing and masks was to slow the spread and not choke the hospitals. How did we leap from that to total eradication at all costs? I think everybody has lost sight of what the purpose of all of this was originally and somehow it got twisted into "This is how its gonna be forever".


If you are under two years old, you don't have to wear a mask. Well, if the issue is transmission, as you stated, then I would think the little kid that stuffs his hands in his mouth every second then goes and touches everything, could be one of the greatest risks in our stores. So, it is okay to for them to spread it to everybody because it is more important that little jimmy don't cry. Got it. And there is no way you are going to sell me that kids under two are not carriers of the virus.

So, if we really give a shit about managing this, as was originally being sold to us, would it not make sense to keep the little booger eaters out of the stores? Elderly should be strongly urged to wear protection, and anyone under the age of 30 should go around hugging each other so they will be immune when they get older. As for grocery stores and the Walmarts of the world..... you want to keep us safe? No shoppers inside. Place your order online or at an outside kiosk and sanitized pickers will bring out to you. Until this is dealt with in a logical manner with truly good intentions for all, I call this whole thing bullshit. As far as I am concerned, all of these safety protocols are the equivalent of a condom filled with pin holes.

Not trying to pick a fight here. Just pointing out that their lack consistency and flawed reasoning. And I am not advocating the radical things in the previous paragraph neither. Just think about it. To truly be "clean" the process would have to start at the manufacturing level and followed through all the way through the sale. I'm sure it's coming though. Some goddamn ISO certification to make sure everything we buy is sanitized. That should really help prices of goods :)
 
It's all BS. Think about a store stocker wearing a mask for an 8 hour shift. They are going to touch the soggy germ soaked mask then everything else, no way you can't. Masks for everyone makes this stuff worse.
 
Again, some perspective:

I don't know of anyone who thinks of 1957 and thinks of the Asian Flu. Usually it's drive-ins and:
1957-chevy-bel-air-coupe-david-luhr.jpg

and Elvis and rock-n-roll, or even Ike and the Little Rock Nine.

But H2N2 resulted in 116,000 deaths in the US. That's a deaths/M of 674. (And 1.1M worldwide.)

Presently this virus has a US deaths/M of 261. Will it rise? Sure. To 674??

And there were no shutdowns, masks, ... Today, it's all but forgotten.

The wisdom back then: quarantine the sick and protect the vulnerable (the infirm elderly - sound familiar? - but ALSO pregnant women). Not shutting down various random sectors of the economy, discouraging people from keeping healthy via exercise, fresh air and sunshine, spending trillions of dollars we don't have NOT to help people directly impacted, and shipping virus patients to nursing homes. (Oh, and delaying cleaning mass transit for weeks, despite it being a known vector.)
 
Again, some perspective:

I don't know of anyone who thinks of 1957 and thinks of the Asian Flu. Usually it's drive-ins and:
1957-chevy-bel-air-coupe-david-luhr.jpg

and Elvis and rock-n-roll, or even Ike and the Little Rock Nine.

But H2N2 resulted in 116,000 deaths in the US. That's a deaths/M of 674. (And 1.1M worldwide.)

Presently this virus has a US deaths/M of 261. Will it rise? Sure. To 674??

And there were no shutdowns, masks, ... Today, it's all but forgotten.

The wisdom back then: quarantine the sick and protect the vulnerable (the infirm elderly - sound familiar? - but ALSO pregnant women). Not shutting down various random sectors of the economy, discouraging people from keeping healthy via exercise, fresh air and sunshine, spending trillions of dollars we don't have NOT to help people directly impacted, and shipping virus patients to nursing homes. (Oh, and delaying cleaning mass transit for weeks, despite it being a known vector.)

Like Thomas Sowell says... it's hard to admit that we've been played for fools by smooth talking politicians.
 
Attorney friend just informed me MA courts now closed until July; at this point trials anticipated to start in September. Thinking this may be a little optimistic- apparently they are retrofitting the courts for social distancing- have no idea what that entails.

What’s the spread on Baker pushing stay at home order in full effect until July?
 
Okay, this is a legitimate question, not trying to be a wise ass. So we should be wearing masks in confined areas. Got it. But for how long do we do this, and why? Forget the issues with people touching things, therefore spreading this in other ways. That is a reality, and I guess a risk that perpetual wearers of masks are willing to live with (more on that later). But what happens if you get the virus? Are we all going to die? I cannot be the only one that hopes to get this thing soon and hopefully be done with it. I thought the purpose of distancing and masks was to slow the spread and not choke the hospitals. How did we leap from that to total eradication at all costs? I think everybody has lost sight of what the purpose of all of this was originally and somehow it got twisted into "This is how its gonna be forever".


If you are under two years old, you don't have to wear a mask. Well, if the issue is transmission, as you stated, then I would think the little kid that stuffs his hands in his mouth every second then goes and touches everything, could be one of the greatest risks in our stores. So, it is okay to for them to spread it to everybody because it is more important that little jimmy don't cry. Got it. And there is no way you are going to sell me that kids under two are not carriers of the virus.

So, if we really give a shit about managing this, as was originally being sold to us, would it not make sense to keep the little booger eaters out of the stores? Elderly should be strongly urged to wear protection, and anyone under the age of 30 should go around hugging each other so they will be immune when they get older. As for grocery stores and the Walmarts of the world..... you want to keep us safe? No shoppers inside. Place your order online or at an outside kiosk and sanitized pickers will bring out to you. Until this is dealt with in a logical manner with truly good intentions for all, I call this whole thing bullshit. As far as I am concerned, all of these safety protocols are the equivalent of a condom filled with pin holes.

Not trying to pick a fight here. Just pointing out that their lack consistency and flawed reasoning. And I am not advocating the radical things in the previous paragraph neither. Just think about it. To truly be "clean" the process would have to start at the manufacturing level and followed through all the way through the sale. I'm sure it's coming though. Some goddamn ISO certification to make sure everything we buy is sanitized. That should really help prices of goods :)
The problem with this theory is that there's no certainty that surviving SARS-CoV-2 grants immunity. If that's the case, there's no benefit to getting it now, because you may do so again in the fall.
 
The reason that masks were discouraged early on is the government knew that there was a very limited supply, and people would hoard them. "Save the N95 masks for the health care people who need them" was the mantra.

Well, if the N95 masks protects the front line health care worker, why were we told that "It did not matter" for the average American?.

One of the biggest lies in the last 3 months.

(China controls the majority of mask manufacturing, that's why)
 
If we can't convince you that the root of all medical science, cleanliness and wearing masks, all proven to work has saved more lives than any other preventative measure in the history of mankind I don't know why you would even bother posting and having an argument.

Masks work to prevent the spread of bacteria and viruses. This is fact. If you can't grasp the concept, we can't help you. This is like trying to convince you water is wet.

Yes the Surgeon General and Fauci were blatantly lying to everyone. Go sit in the first year of medical school and see what the first things they teach you about are when it comes to the spread of infectious diseases. Hint its washing your hands and PPE.
 
I‘ve been informed that Swampscott is painting arrows on the sidewalks. Hmmm, wondering if I should start a pool on how long before Kim institutes that wonderful idea in Salem. She’s already had some of the more “popular” sidewalks widened according to a City email I received today. (Looking for a news reference on the arrows.)
 
Again, some perspective:

I don't know of anyone who thinks of 1957 and thinks of the Asian Flu. Usually it's drive-ins and:
1957-chevy-bel-air-coupe-david-luhr.jpg

and Elvis and rock-n-roll, or even Ike and the Little Rock Nine.

But H2N2 resulted in 116,000 deaths in the US. That's a deaths/M of 674. (And 1.1M worldwide.)

Presently this virus has a US deaths/M of 261. Will it rise? Sure. To 674??

And there were no shutdowns, masks, ... Today, it's all but forgotten.

The wisdom back then: quarantine the sick and protect the vulnerable (the infirm elderly - sound familiar? - but ALSO pregnant women). Not shutting down various random sectors of the economy, discouraging people from keeping healthy via exercise, fresh air and sunshine, spending trillions of dollars we don't have NOT to help people directly impacted, and shipping virus patients to nursing homes. (Oh, and delaying cleaning mass transit for weeks, despite it being a known vector.)

keep in mind that this seems to be more contagious than what we’ve seen before.


all good points. I like this discussion.

We really can’t stop this by wearing masks. Wuhan has this tracking system. You have to scan whenever you enter a building or ride pub-tran. It’s too restrictive. And if you are in an area in the last 2 weeks that a C19 carrier was in - you get to re-quarantine for 2 weeks. It’s totally disruptive.

But masks can slow it down. not stop. This won’t stop it. The only way to stop it is to airdrop 2 months of food to everyone and close everything down 100%. That can’t happen. So it’s about mgmt.

‘’Some wearing masks will still transmit. But it is an effective means to reduce transmission.

You also still need to stop touching your face and to wash your hands often.

We are going to have to get used to masks for a while. It’s not that big of a deal. What the protocol needs to be is a mask where social distancing is not feasible. Like a store. Pretend you’re in Japan or Hong Kong. They do this sort of thing all the time. Maybe pixilate your genitals too. Lol

I keep seeing people walking outside alone with masks. Even the most paranoid experts in this don’t suggest that. (A neighbor was outside doing yard work with her mask on today.)
 
Anyone think there will be a single straight answer on Monday?

About the same odds as Taylor Swift showing up at my door wearing nothing but a smile and carrying a bottle of champagne .

Charlie is no kind of leader.
He was put in that office as a sock puppet to legitimize his Dem handlers decisions by calling whatever B.S. crap they come up with "Bipartisan "
Every time I hear "The Republican Governor of Mass. " I want to F-ing hurl.
The man is an empty suit , a hollow man, a sock puppet.
Healy and Deleo call the shots and he'll say whatever he is told to say.

Look at what happens when some reporter asks him a question that wasn't on his preapproved talking points.
He looks like a deer in headlights.

Short answer is no, we won't be reopening shit on Monday.
 
keep in mind that this seems to be more contagious than what we’ve seen before.



all good points. I like this discussion.

We really can’t stop this by wearing masks. Wuhan has this tracking system. You have to scan whenever you enter a building or ride pub-tran. It’s too restrictive. And if you are in an area in the last 2 weeks that a C19 carrier was in - you get to re-quarantine for 2 weeks. It’s totally disruptive.

But masks can slow it down. not stop. This won’t stop it. The only way to stop it is to airdrop 2 months of food to everyone and close everything down 100%. That can’t happen. So it’s about mgmt.

‘’Some wearing masks will still transmit. But it is an effective means to reduce transmission.

You also still need to stop touching your face and to wash your hands often.

We are going to have to get used to masks for a while. It’s not that big of a deal. What the protocol needs to be is a mask where social distancing is not feasible. Like a store. Pretend you’re in Japan or Hong Kong. They do this sort of thing all the time. Maybe pixilate your genitals too. Lol

I keep seeing people walking outside alone with masks. Even the most paranoid experts in this don’t suggest that. (A neighbor was outside doing yard work with her mask on today.)
Dash Riprock 🇺🇸 on Twitter: WTF is wrong with these imbeciles I ...
 
Okay, this is a legitimate question, not trying to be a wise ass. So we should be wearing masks in confined areas. Got it. But for how long do we do this, and why? Forget the issues with people touching things, therefore spreading this in other ways. That is a reality, and I guess a risk that perpetual wearers of masks are willing to live with (more on that later). But what happens if you get the virus? Are we all going to die? I cannot be the only one that hopes to get this thing soon and hopefully be done with it. I thought the purpose of distancing and masks was to slow the spread and not choke the hospitals. How did we leap from that to total eradication at all costs? I think everybody has lost sight of what the purpose of all of this was originally and somehow it got twisted into "This is how its gonna be forever".


If you are under two years old, you don't have to wear a mask. Well, if the issue is transmission, as you stated, then I would think the little kid that stuffs his hands in his mouth every second then goes and touches everything, could be one of the greatest risks in our stores. So, it is okay to for them to spread it to everybody because it is more important that little jimmy don't cry. Got it. And there is no way you are going to sell me that kids under two are not carriers of the virus.

So, if we really give a shit about managing this, as was originally being sold to us, would it not make sense to keep the little booger eaters out of the stores? Elderly should be strongly urged to wear protection, and anyone under the age of 30 should go around hugging each other so they will be immune when they get older. As for grocery stores and the Walmarts of the world..... you want to keep us safe? No shoppers inside. Place your order online or at an outside kiosk and sanitized pickers will bring out to you. Until this is dealt with in a logical manner with truly good intentions for all, I call this whole thing bullshit. As far as I am concerned, all of these safety protocols are the equivalent of a condom filled with pin holes.

Not trying to pick a fight here. Just pointing out that their lack consistency and flawed reasoning. And I am not advocating the radical things in the previous paragraph neither. Just think about it. To truly be "clean" the process would have to start at the manufacturing level and followed through all the way through the sale. I'm sure it's coming though. Some goddamn ISO certification to make sure everything we buy is sanitized. That should really help prices of goods :)

As far as under 2 not having to wear a mask, you have to draw the line somewhere. So they set it at 24 months, where would you out it 3? 9? 12? 18?

Right now noone who isn't mature enough to social distance should be going to stores.

I am in the "just because they told you to do it doesn't make it wrong" camp.

I went to Home Depot for an efficient trip. The ones walking around with no masks and not distancing were all the mush brained people who used Home Depot for an excuse for a coupled outing, not the people who had shit to do or were there for materials for a job.

You don't NEED a mask on most of the time, unless you are oblivious to those around you, which these dopes all were.
 
keep in mind that this seems to be more contagious than what we’ve seen before.
Yup, but keep in mind the empirical evidence - the here and now, on the ground, with tons of in-vivos, over multiple countries and states here in these United States - tends to imply 1957 was STILL a bigger event. The normal responses - quarantine the sick and protect the vulnerable (elders and infirm) should have been the SOP. NOT what happened. This was twisted.
 
If we can't convince you that the root of all medical science, cleanliness and wearing masks, all proven to work has saved more lives than any other preventative measure in the history of mankind I don't know why you would even bother posting and having an argument.

Masks work to prevent the spread of bacteria and viruses. This is fact. If you can't grasp the concept, we can't help you. This is like trying to convince you water is wet.

Yes the Surgeon General and Fauci were blatantly lying to everyone. Go sit in the first year of medical school and see what the first things they teach you about are when it comes to the spread of infectious diseases. Hint its washing your hands and PPE.

When the outbreak started, I asked five ID docs at work whether surgical masks were effective. 4 hard no's with accompanying eye rolls, and 1 maybe. These are all HMS and BU Med faculty. Fit-tested N95s, yes those work. I really don't know where all this false confidence about mask effectiveness is coming from. It's like throwing a virion banana down the proverbial hallway.
 
I see being intentionally obtuse is also contagious on this forum.

Really, it's to maintain sterility of the surgical wound to prevent dreaded bacterial infections. The surgical mask is used in combination with gowns, gloves, caps, disciplined hand washing, laminar air flow (unclear effectiveness), good housecleaning staff, etc. You need all the pieces of that infection prevention puzzle. If cockeyed optimists want to repeatedly don the same grimy, contaminated surgical mask for a couple weeks, more power to you.
 
Really, it's to maintain sterility of the surgical wound to prevent dreaded bacterial infections. The surgical mask is used in combination with gowns, gloves, caps, disciplined hand washing, laminar air flow (unclear effectiveness), good housecleaning staff, etc. You need all the pieces of that infection prevention puzzle. If cockeyed optimists want to repeatedly don the same grimy, contaminated surgical mask for a couple weeks, more power to you.
Well, mine gets worn once and put in hot wash with bleach:
20200401_142459.jpg

I'm not concerned about getting infected, as by infecting others, or being accused of infecting others. And that's my big concern - and this may relate to the whole "slow opening" crap - is a conversation I had with my insurance guy. I am NOT covered if I infect a customer. I have normal, ordinary, million-dollar The Hartford small-business insurance coverage, like most of us get. And there is no "plague coverage" apparently. There are certain customers I consider so risky I will NOT darken their doorstep. A couple have employees (and in one case, a corporate officer) who are at an extreme high risk. Another has millions of dollars of human consumables in their warehouse. I would be on the hook if that had to be tossed.

THIS is the real reason for not getting shit started, from the CoC side, in case any of you were wondering why the businesses themselves were at all reluctant. NOT actual infections (which would happen on frequency with a hundred-grand lottery winning in most places). It's risk of suits.
 
I‘ve been informed that Swampscott is painting arrows on the sidewalks. Hmmm, wondering if I should start a pool on how long before Kim institutes that wonderful idea in Salem. She’s already had some of the more “popular” sidewalks widened according to a City email I received today. (Looking for a news reference on the arrows.)
Can't even get them to paint CROSSWALKS here in Auburn! Ha.
When my kids were at JB school, they had to cross streets maybe 6 times on their way, at least 3 or 4 of them had NO crosswalks.
1589500735660.png

Ask all those docs if they wear surgical masks during surgery. Then ask them why.
Sounds like you know a lot of stupid docs.
Mainly so they don't drool into your wound.
Really, it's to maintain sterility of the surgical wound to prevent dreaded bacterial infections. The surgical mask is used in combination with gowns, gloves, caps, disciplined hand washing, laminar air flow (unclear effectiveness), good housecleaning staff, etc. You need all the pieces of that infection prevention puzzle. If cockeyed optimists want to repeatedly don the same grimy, contaminated surgical mask for a couple weeks, more power to you.
junior_mints_2964580k.jpg
 
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