Ma Residant with CT and Ma LTCs

[arlow]

Having the Mass and CT permits am I able to legally purchase guns in CT without having to transfer to a Mass FFL before taking possession?

 

[22lr]

Will they sell you a gun in CT? I doubt they would. They would want to ship to a FFL in ma.

 

[allen-1]

Having the Mass and CT permits am I able to legally purchase guns in CT without having to transfer to a Mass FFL before taking possession?

Federal law allows you to purchase *handguns* ONLY in your state of residence. So you can't buy a handgun legally anywhere without transferring it to a Mass FFL.

Connecticut can now legally sell you a rifle or shotgun (and ammunition) without violating CT's laws, but they have to not violate Massachusett's laws for the rifle or shotgun when they sell it to you because you're buying on a non-resident permit, and have a Massachusetts address. So, some will refuse to sell to you because they don't want to run that risk.

Want a disclaimer? Here's a disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer, this is how it was explained to me in my firearm classes.

 

[noxin]

Federal law allows you to purchase *handguns* ONLY in your state of residence. So you can't buy a handgun legally anywhere without transferring it to a Mass FFL.

Connecticut can now legally sell you a rifle or shotgun (and ammunition) without violating CT's laws, but they have to not violate Massachusett's laws for the rifle or shotgun when they sell it to you because you're buying on a non-resident permit, and have a Massachusetts address. So, some will refuse to sell to you because they don't want to run that risk.

Want a disclaimer? Here's a disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer, this is how it was explained to me in my firearm classes.

Bold section is not 100% Accurate.

If you have a residence (does not have to be your primary residence) in CT with the appropriate license in CT, you are legally permitted to purchase any firearm there, if you can find an CT FFL to do the transfer for you.

For more information, please check out the ATF Form 4473 (https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download) Instructions for Question 13 on page 5 of the PDF.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Bold section is not 100% Accurate.

If you have a residence (does not have to be your primary residence) in CT with the appropriate license in CT, you are legally permitted to purchase any firearm there, if you can find an CT FFL to do the transfer for you.

It is also worth noting that a handgun may be bequested across state lines without use of an FFL. Not sure about intestate succession though (Len?).

 

[arlow]

Thank you guys for your input!


My immediate needs are not a hand gun at this time. I am currently looking for an over under shotgun thus my reason for this question as finding dealers with a good selection of them is not easy.

 

[allen-1]

Bold section is not 100% Accurate.

If you have a residence (does not have to be your primary residence) in CT with the appropriate license in CT, you are legally permitted to purchase any firearm there, if you can find an CT FFL to do the transfer for you.

For more information, please check out the ATF Form 4473 (https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download) Instructions for Question 13 on page 5 of the PDF.

From the ATF:
https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-a...tate-and-owns-property-another-state-purchase

Which agrees with what you said. The OP, if I understood him correctly, said merely that he had a CT permit, which I took to be a non-resident permit. If he doesn't have a residence in CT, he's not going to be able to purchase a handgun there legally. If however, he has a residence in CT, which is the tack you're taking - then he can.

 

[noxin]

Thank you guys for your input!


My immediate needs are not a hand gun at this time. I am currently looking for an over under shotgun thus my reason for this question as finding dealers with a good selection of them is not easy.

You would have to ask the FFL who would be doing the transfer. I suspect they'll probably decline the transfer.

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From the ATF:
https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-a...tate-and-owns-property-another-state-purchase

Which agrees with what you said. The OP, if I understood him correctly, said merely that he had a CT permit, which I took to be a non-resident permit. If he doesn't have a residence in CT, he's not going to be able to purchase a handgun there legally. If however, he has a residence in CT, which is the tack you're taking - then he can.

Which is why I didn't say you were flat out wrong The question was vague enough, your answer could have been correct as well

 

[Kevlar]

It is also worth noting that a handgun may be bequested across state lines without use of an FFL. Not sure about intestate succession though (Len?).

Yes, intestate succession as well (SEE: 18 USC 922(a)(3))

 

[allen-1]

Cabelas in Hartford has a "library" of guns. If you're anywhere near there, it might be worth taking a look at. Please note the use of the word "might". I have no interest (yet?) in over/under shotguns, so I've merely noticed in passing that they've had them there.

 

[joshh]

I own a home in CT and am a resident in MA.
I still had to get a non-res pistol permit in CT.
I can purchase ammo and long guns in CT but not pistols.
I wish it wasnt so, but this is how it went for me....


EDIT:
Just got off the phone with CT permitting office and she says I CAN get a resident license and sees NO reason I shouldnt be able to purchase any pistol in CT. I am up for renewal in few months anyways so she said to just send in a copy of my tax bill to verify residence... WOAH, i wonder if this would cause an issue with fed check if i try to buy a pistol from a dealer???

 

[noxin]

I own a home in CT and am a resident in MA.
I still had to get a non-res pistol permit in CT.
I can purchase ammo and long guns in CT but not pistols.
I wish it wasnt so, but this is how it went for me....


EDIT:
Just got off the phone with CT permitting office and she says I CAN get a resident license and sees NO reason I shouldnt be able to purchase any pistol in CT. I am up for renewal in few months anyways so she said to just send in a copy of my tax bill to verify residence... WOAH, i wonder if this would cause an issue with fed check if i try to buy a pistol from a dealer???

No, Federal law specifically addresses and permits this. see references above.

 

[allen-1]

I own a home in CT and am a resident in MA.
I still had to get a non-res pistol permit in CT.
I can purchase ammo and long guns in CT but not pistols.
I wish it wasnt so, but this is how it went for me....


EDIT:
Just got off the phone with CT permitting office and she says I CAN get a resident license and sees NO reason I shouldnt be able to purchase any pistol in CT. I am up for renewal in few months anyways so she said to just send in a copy of my tax bill to verify residence... WOAH, i wonder if this would cause an issue with fed check if i try to buy a pistol from a dealer???

Sounds like you could be a "resident" of both states, and have permits in both states, which would let you buy handguns in both states. Could make your tax situation a little interesting, but probably already is.

 

[joshh]

Sounds like you could be a "resident" of both states, and have permits in both states, which would let you buy handguns in both states. Could make your tax situation a little interesting, but probably already is.

taxes suck.
i work in CT, wife works in MA to make matters worse

- - - Updated - - -

No, Federal law specifically addresses and permits this. see references above.

So assuming I can and do buy a pistol in CT, am I still supposed to "register" it on MA website?

 

[browncoat]

I own a home in CT and am a resident in MA.
I still had to get a non-res pistol permit in CT.
I can purchase ammo and long guns in CT but not pistols.
I wish it wasnt so, but this is how it went for me....


EDIT:
Just got off the phone with CT permitting office and she says I CAN get a resident license and sees NO reason I shouldnt be able to purchase any pistol in CT. I am up for renewal in few months anyways so she said to just send in a copy of my tax bill to verify residence... WOAH, i wonder if this would cause an issue with fed check if i try to buy a pistol from a dealer???

Look on page 5 of the 4473 form. The ATF makes it clear that you can be the resident of multiple states, and you can directly use your tax documents as proof of residency along with an out of state driver's license to buy guns. https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

- - - Updated - - -

taxes suck.
i work in CT, wife works in MA to make matters worse

- - - Updated - - -



So assuming I can and do buy a pistol in CT, am I still supposed to "register" it on MA website?

You only need to register it when you bring it back into MA. If you never bring it back, you never need to register it. You have 7 days after it crosses the border to do the registration.

 

[joshh]

You only need to register it when you bring it back into MA. If you never bring it back, you never need to register it. You have 7 days after it crosses the border to do the registration.

I live & work in both places throughout the year. CT all summer and every weekend outside of winter months.

 

[Shotgun Scully]

Why not just special order a O/U shotgun from your preferred LGS???

 

[noxin]

You only need to register it when you bring it back into MA. If you never bring it back, you never need to register it. You have 7 days after it crosses the border to do the registration.

Kevlar pointed out below that the requirements haven't changed due to the 2014 law.

 

[arlow]

Why not just special order a O/U shotgun from your preferred LGS???

With an O/U alot of it is about balance and fit. I would like to physically handle different models in a similar price range to evaluate how they shoulder and balance. I have found that most shops in Mass carry only one or two models that are in my current price range (under 1000). Cabella's was my thought process because they carry a bunch. In the end I may just do what you are suggesting, but only after I have been able to compare different guns.

 

[joshh]

Thank you guys for your input!


My immediate needs are not a hand gun at this time. I am currently looking for an over under shotgun thus my reason for this question as finding dealers with a good selection of them is not easy.

sorry for the brief thread hijacking...

I see you are in western MA. The last couple gun shows I attended had a decent variety of O/U's to check out but horrific prices. The cabellas in berlin, MA has a decent selection of new & used (some fair prices too - one beretta in particular). But if you really want to handle a bunch of them, make the trip to kittery trading post. Last summer I went up there and they had at least one of everything. I was pretty impressed and coulda spent hours there, but the wife not so much...

 

[Kevlar]

You only need to register it when you bring it back into MA. If you never bring it back, you never need to register it. You have 7 days after it crosses the border to do the registration.

Please review the law changes in 2014, the FA10 requirement is immediately, not 7 days anymore.

The reporting requirements for out-of-state acquisitions were not modified by Chapter 284 of The Acts Of 2014.

Transferees have seven days to report such acquisitions (SEE: MGL 140-128B)

 

[noxin]

The reporting requirements for out-of-state acquisitions were not modified by Chapter 284 of The Acts Of 2014.

Transferees have seven days to report such acquisitions (SEE: MGL 140-128B)

I stand corrected. Thank you!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[JAD]

Sounds like you could be a "resident" of both states, and have permits in both states, which would let you buy handguns in both states. Could make your tax situation a little interesting, but probably already is.

Unless DESPP-Authorizations has changed their operating procedures, there could be a practical problem for a dual resident to obtain an authorization on a handgun or other (non-rifle/shotgun). Several years ago, I was present at a Connecticut gun store when a snow-bird (Part-year Connecticut, part-year Florida resident- with CT permit and FL license) attempted to purchase a handgun. When salesman called authorizations he was told that they would not grant an auth without a CT license or ID.

- - - Updated - - -

Will they sell you a gun in CT? I doubt they would. They would want to ship to a FFL in ma.

Aside from overly concerned dealers, a rifle, shotgun, ammunition, or magazine are no problem on an out of state permit.

 

[JAD]

I own a home in CT and am a resident in MA.
I still had to get a non-res pistol permit in CT.
I can purchase ammo and long guns in CT but not pistols.
I wish it wasnt so, but this is how it went for me....


EDIT:
Just got off the phone with CT permitting office and she says I CAN get a resident license and sees NO reason I shouldnt be able to purchase any pistol in CT. I am up for renewal in few months anyways so she said to just send in a copy of my tax bill to verify residence... WOAH, i wonder if this would cause an issue with fed check if i try to buy a pistol from a dealer???

Simply owning a house or property in a state does not inherently make an individual a resident of Connecticut for Gun Control Act purposes. Through federal regulations (27 CFR 178.11), ATF has defined the term state of residence be where an individual resides or maintains a home.

See ATF ruling 80-21

27 CFR 178.11: MEANING OF TERMS

An out-of-State college student may establish residence in a State by residing and maintaining a home in a college dormitory or in a location off-campus during the school term.

ATF Rul. 80-21

"State of residence" is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 178.11 as the State in which an individual regularly resides or maintains a home. The regulation also provides an example
of an individual who maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. The individual regularly resides in State X except for the summer months and in State Y for the summer
months of the year. The regulation states that during the time the individual actually resides in State X he is a resident of State X, and during the time he actually resides in State Y he is a resident of State Y.

Applying the above example to out-of-State college students it is held, that during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location they are considered residents of the State where the dormitory or off-campus home is located. During the time out-of-State college students actually reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home State.

[ATFB 1980-4 25]

When an individual moves to Connecticut, they don't need to apply for a new resident permit. They only need to contact DESPP and change their address within 48 hours- just like any other move. Then apply a self-address label to the reverse. Converting a non-resident permit to a resident permit is very easy. Some people recommend people considering a move to Connecticut to get a Connecticut permit as a non-resident, since it is an easier and cheaper task than applying for a temp permit through a town and following the resident initial applicant procedure.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Having a gun permit as a resident does NOT change your income tax status. Wherever you own property, reside (even part time) or earn money, that state (or multiples of them) want their pound of flesh, annually!

 

[browncoat]

Simply owning a house or property in a state does not inherently make an individual a resident of Connecticut for Gun Control Act purposes. Through federal regulations (27 CFR 178.11), ATF has defined the term state of residence be where an individual resides or maintains a home.

See ATF ruling 80-21



When an individual moves to Connecticut, they don't need to apply for a new resident permit. They only need to contact DESPP and change their address within 48 hours- just like any other move. Then apply a self-address label to the reverse. Converting a non-resident permit to a resident permit is very easy. Some people recommend people considering a move to Connecticut to get a Connecticut permit as a non-resident, since it is an easier and cheaper task than applying for a temp permit through a town and following the resident initial applicant procedure.

He is a part time resident of CT. He doesn't just own the home, he splits time between MA and CT

 

[allen-1]

Unless DESPP-Authorizations has changed their operating procedures, there could be a practical problem for a dual resident to obtain an authorization on a handgun or other (non-rifle/shotgun). Several years ago, I was present at a Connecticut gun store when a snow-bird (Part-year Connecticut, part-year Florida resident- with CT permit and FL license) attempted to purchase a handgun. When salesman called authorizations he was told that they would not grant an auth without a CT license or ID.

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Aside from overly concerned dealers, a rifle, shotgun, ammunition, or magazine are no problem on an out of state permit.

That used to be true, it's no longer true. Connecticut now has three levels of permits, ammunition, longarms and handgun/carry. You cannot even purchase ammunition in Connecticut without at least an ammunition permit.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

When salesman called authorizations he was told that they would not grant an auth without a CT license or ID.

If you have dual residency, it would make sense to list your CT address on your CT permit.

I don't know how it works in CT, but I've lived in MA and FL, and no gun shop in either state ever asked for any ID beyond by LTC to prove identity and residence when I was making a purchase.

Having a gun permit as a resident does NOT change your income tax status. Wherever you own property, reside (even part time) or earn money, that state (or multiples of them) want their pound of flesh, annually!

Which may be nothing, since, for example, a person living in MA and working in NY will be taxed on the income earned in MA but have a credit for that amount against their MA income tax.

There was a case a NY a few years ago where someone with a considerable wealth was getting divorced, and there was a dispute as to venue. The wife wanted NY and it was more favorable, so she used the fact that he had a NYC pistol permit to argue that city was their residence, as such had been claimed on the permit application.

 

[arlow]

Aside from overly concerned dealers, a rifle, shotgun, ammunition, or magazine are no problem on an out of state permit.

That used to be true, it's no longer true. Connecticut now has three levels of permits, ammunition, longarms and handgun/carry. You cannot even purchase ammunition in Connecticut without at least an ammunition permit.

I think he may have intended to mean on a non resident CT carry permit.

 

[JAD]

If you have dual residency, it would make sense to list your CT address on your CT permit.

In the situation that I was referencing, the individual had a Connecticut permit to carry with a Connecticut address and a Florida DL, with a Florida address. In the past Florida used to issue what was collequially-called a snow-bird license to part year residents. The part year resident licenses were only valid in Florida, which allowed the individual to retain their other DL. Now your FL DL is supposed to be your only.

I don't know how it works in CT, but I've lived in MA and FL, and no gun shop in either state ever asked for any ID beyond by LTC to prove identity and residence when I was making a purchase.

Typically authorizations will ask for the buyer and sellers permit numbers, and confirm information against their computer.

However, when filling out the DPS-67 (application to purchase), the buyer is required to present his driver's license or ID card (and some information such as license number, issuing state, and expiry is recorded on the form). I believe that in the transaction I was referring to that the out of state ID may have prompted the salesman to ask a question to the authorizations person, but I'm not 100%.

I do know that there are circumstances when Authorizations will ask you to tell them the person's information (i.e. dl number, address, maybe other basic info) as well. That happened when I sold a gun to somebody a few years ago [it was his first purchase]. Typically, though, when presented they simply recite the name and address on record and ask the seller to confirm that.

Which may be nothing, since, for example, a person living in MA and working in NY will be taxed on the income earned in MA but have a credit for that amount against their MA income tax.

There was a case a NY a few years ago where someone with a considerable wealth was getting divorced, and there was a dispute as to venue. The wife wanted NY and it was more favorable, so she used the fact that he had a NYC pistol permit to argue that city was their residence, as such had been claimed on the permit application.

See red inset type.