MA LTC Denied

[MA_Shooter]

According to post 25, it was up to 1 year. Wouldn't that make in not a statutory DQ, and couldn't the LO make a different decision on an FID?

Then he may not be federally disqualified, which is a good thing if he ever escapes MA.

 

[browncoat]

Then he may not be federally disqualified, which is a good thing if he ever escapes MA.

So this is an edge case where an FRB restoration would actually work?

 

[MA_Shooter]

So this is an edge case where an FRB restoration would actually work?

Most states don't require a permit to own a gun, so as long as he's not federally prohibited person then he should be GTG.

 

[browncoat]

Most states don't require a permit to own a gun, so as long as he's not federally prohibited person then he should be GTG.

Right, but if it is a MA dq without being a Fed dq, if the frb restores firearms rights, that should let someone get an LTC if the chief agrees in a different town

 

[Len-2A Training]

Again GOAL's info is wrong. Law change in [STRIKE=undefined]2004[/STRIKE] 2014 made requirements & DQs the same for FID & LTC. Chief now has discretion & Suitability for FID as well as LTC.

FLRB is prohibited from hearing appeals on drug convictions. ETA: Read the rules for appealing very carefully.

 

[Goliathan]

Yikes. So it's worse. Shall-issue is totally dead, then.

 

[noxin]

Again GOAL's info is wrong. Law change in 2004 made requirements & DQs the same for FID & LTC. Chief now has discretion & Suitability for FID as well as LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

FLRB is prohibited from hearing appeals on drug convictions.

2004 or 2014?

 

[GPP]

Possession of controlled substance

So, was the disposition of the case " guilty" ?
We are talking mere possession of class B in MA, right?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Again GOAL's info is wrong. Law change in 2004 made requirements & DQs the same for FID & LTC. Chief now has discretion & Suitability for FID as well as LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

FLRB is prohibited from hearing appeals on drug convictions.

Except that the chief has to get a court to rubber stamp a FID denial.

The FLRB can indeed hear appeals on drug convictions. It just can't rule in favor of the applicant

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yikes. So it's worse. Shall-issue is totally dead, then.

Correct.

2004 or 2014?

Sorry 2014. On cell small screen.

 

[noxin]

Correct.

Sorry 2014. On cell small screen.

Just checking so people knew when to look for the law change if they were so interested.

 

[tysdad115]

So, was the disposition of the case " guilty" ?
We are talking mere possession of class B in MA, right?

Yes ,misdemeanor possession class B in MA.

 

[bigtig50]

So, murderers and rapists can get a parole, but some poor stiff that made a mistake 25 years ago is branded for life regarding an LTC ? Please forgive my ignorance but do we have a constitution or not? Leaving it up to local LEO discretion in any case leaves an opening for almost anything. I just don't get it anymore.

 

[tysdad115]

Again GOAL's info is wrong. Law change in 2004 made requirements & DQs the same for FID & LTC. Chief now has discretion & Suitability for FID as well as LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

FLRB is prohibited from hearing appeals on drug convictions.

He was told he would be issued an FID card, my question was specifically if he would be a federal PP. Therefore an FID would be useless . I didn't want him to get to an ffl to purchase an FID eligible rifle and be denied.

This is his first attempt at owning any firearms. He asked me yesterday if everybody in this shithole state has to go through this ,then get checked at an FFL why the hell is everyone saying we need more gun control ? He's starting to understand. He just doesn't comprehend how difficult it can be.

 

[noxin]

So, murderers and rapists can get a parole, but some poor stiff that made a mistake 25 years ago is branded for life regarding an LTC ? Please forgive my ignorance but do we have a constitution or not? Leaving it up to local LEO discretion in any case leaves an opening for almost anything. I just don't get it anymore.

Without full details (which we shouldn't get!), there's no indication this is a LEO making a discretionary decision. OP's friend was convicted of a crime (max sentencing length unknown due to lack of details) which could have made said person a Federally Prohibited person for both the LTC and FID. As much I hate the discretionary system in MA, this person likely would have been denied in any state they applied in.

 

[spt_1955]

Not anymore. A chief can still decide to grant an FID and not an LTC if there is not a statutory dq

I think Goliathan is correct . FID is statutory DQ only so there is no decision on FID. It;s a shall issue unless you are DQ'd. If chief says he wont issue LTC but he can apply apply for FID it must be a suitability issue.

Originally Posted by Goliathan
FID is "shall issue" for non-pp, right?

OP must have been a suitability denial, no?

 

[tysdad115]

So, murderers and rapists can get a parole, but some poor stiff that made a mistake 25 years ago is branded for life regarding an LTC ? Please forgive my ignorance but do we have a constitution or not? Leaving it up to local LEO discretion in any case leaves an opening for almost anything. I just don't get it anymore.

Exactly. He has nothing else on his record ,I've known him for 30 years. Stupid choice for sure. Anyone that's known him would say he's a great member of society, works his balls off, owns a house etc..in general a good shit. But getting caught for this incident 25 years ago dq's him. I'm not saying we were angels back then..in fact we partied like animals , but he got caught. And is now paying the price.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Just checking so people knew when to look for the law change if they were so interested.

Now that I'm back in my office, I'll change my error. On S6, the keypad covers most of the screen making it difficult to see what I typed.

He was told he would be issued an FID card, my question was specifically if he would be a federal PP. Therefore an FID would be useless . I didn't want him to get to an ffl to purchase an FID eligible rifle and be denied.

This is his first attempt at owning any firearms. He asked me yesterday if everybody in this shithole state has to go through this ,then get checked at an FFL why the hell is everyone saying we need more gun control ? He's starting to understand. He just doesn't comprehend how difficult it can be.

I think Goliathan is correct . FID is statutory DQ only so there is no decision on FID. It;s a shall issue unless you are DQ'd. If chief says he wont issue LTC but he can apply apply for FID it must be a suitability issue.

Originally Posted by Goliathan
FID is "shall issue" for non-pp, right?

OP must have been a suitability denial, no?

Folks don't read, must have been asleep back in the Summer of 2014 or just have reading comprehension issues!!

The law was changed on Aug. 14, 2014 with the new law change. FIDs are NOW DISCRETIONARY, but chief has to get OK from a MA Marsupial Judge (slam dunk) for EVERYONE! Just like LTCs.

That law change also changed the LIFETIME DQs for an FID to be the same as for a LTC.

ANY drug conviction in MA is a LIFETIME DQ for both LTC and FID, period. NO discretion by the chief is allowed.

Don't expect the PDs to know the law. Don't expect PDs or GOAL to change their websites to track the new law anytime soon.

If he wants to blow $100 application fee plus BFS course fee, have at it, but FRB KNOWS the law and they will deny the local PD on the background check.

There is an out for first and only conviction of MJ and that is outlined in C. 94C S. 34C (IIRC) It was referred to earlier in this thread by myself and Rob Boudrie. That is what the person should do first and htat is the only thing that will work in MA.

I'm done in this thread. He can follow the advice given or carry on and learn for himself the hard way. Feel free to doubt me and read the new law plus the 94C out, if you/he wishes.

 

[Kevlar]

That law change also changed the LIFETIME DQs for an FID to be the same as for a LTC.

ANY drug conviction in MA is a LIFETIME DQ for both LTC and FID, period. NO discretion by the chief is allowed.

That is completely false.

There still exists the five-year look-back period for some offenses, including misdemeanor drug possession charges, after which a FID can be issued...

(1) Any person residing or having a place of business within the jurisdiction of the licensing authority or any person residing in an area of exclusive federal jurisdiction located within a city or town may submit to the licensing authority an application for a firearm identification card, or renewal of the same, which the licensing authority shall issue if it appears that the applicant is not a prohibited person. A prohibited person shall be a person who:

(i) has ever, in a court of the commonwealth, been convicted or adjudicated a youthful offender or delinquent child, or both as defined in section 52 of chapter 119, for the commission of: (A) a felony; (B) a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for more than 2 years ; (C) a violent crime as defined in section 121; (D) a violation of any law regulating the use, possession, ownership, transfer, purchase, sale, lease, rental, receipt or transportation of weapons or ammunition for which a term of imprisonment may be imposed; (E) a violation of any law regulating the use, possession or sale of controlled substances, as defined in section 1 of chapter 94C, including, but not limited to, a violation under said chapter 94C; or (F) a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(33); provided, however, that, except for the commission of a felony, a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, a violent crime or a crime involving the trafficking of controlled substances, if the applicant has been so convicted or adjudicated or released from confinement, probation or parole supervision for such conviction or adjudication, whichever occurs last, for 5 or more years immediately preceding such application, then the applicant's right or ability to possess a non-large capacity rifle or shotgun shall be deemed restored in the commonwealth with respect to such conviction or adjudication and that conviction or adjudication shall not disqualify the applicant for a firearm identification card;

 

[GPP]

Yes ,misdemeanor possession class B in MA.

He must have had the worst lawyer in the commonwealth, even for 25 years ago. No prior record, no violence, a simple possession charge, and the lawyer couldnt get him a CWOF? Something smells a bit aquatic man.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Not that rare, I did it all by myself

Took me 2 years and a lot of leg work. What can I say, I'm persistent.

Update: My case did not involve drugs or violence.

What did you do to get it done? Typically in MA any FLrB relief isn't recognized federally because you never lost your right to vote, so they dot consider it a restoration of rights. You typically have to apply for a l pardon of sorts and tell them it is specifically for a restoration of firearms rights. Did that channel work for you? Or did you do something else?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tysdad115]

Folks don't read, must have been asleep back in the Summer of 2014 or just have reading comprehension issues!!

The law was changed on Aug. 14, 2014 with the new law change. FIDs are NOW DISCRETIONARY, but chief has to get OK from a MA Marsupial Judge (slam dunk) for EVERYONE! Just like LTCs.

That law change also changed the LIFETIME DQs for an FID to be the same as for a LTC.

ANY drug conviction in MA is a LIFETIME DQ for both LTC and FID, period. NO discretion by the chief is allowed.

Don't expect the PDs to know the law. Don't expect PDs or GOAL to change their websites to track the new law anytime soon.

If he wants to blow $100 application fee plus BFS course fee, have at it, but FRB KNOWS the law and they will deny the local PD on the background check.

There is an out for first and only conviction of MJ and that is outlined in C. 94C S. 34C (IIRC) It was referred to earlier in this thread by myself and Rob Boudrie. That is what the person should do first and htat is the only thing that will work in MA.

I'm done in this thread. He can follow the advice given or carry on and learn for himself the hard way. Feel free to doubt me and read the new law plus the 94C out, if you/he wishes.

Len that was not my intent, I don't think it is going to work out for him either and your input is valued to me. He wants to burn the $100 , then good for him. I warned him he may be a PP what he does from here is up to him. Thank you.

 

[CTpatriot]

There was no intent to distribute charge, it was not H..I've informed him he is SOL but seeing how I'm a prick of a friend maybe I'll get him a tacticool airsoft rifle so he can make "pew pew" sounds.

What about black powder or antique guns. Or get him into reloading, if you're not a stater you could at least warm the bench or be a water boy.

 

[Len-2A Training]

That is completely false.

There still exists the five-year look-back period for some offenses, including misdemeanor drug possession charges, after which a FID can be issued...

Sorry, I do stand corrected.

I thought that they modified the FID requirements to be identical to LTC for DQs.

So they now can (as opposed to must) issue you an FID . . . and still make you a Federally PP ripe for time in the "big house" by invoking said FID to buy/possess guns/ammo. Great, just great! Thus, nothing has really changed here. It's a form of entrapment but not such that one could get out of a conviction in Federal Court!

 

[308rifleman]

Now that I'm back in my office, I'll change my error. On S6, the keypad covers most of the screen making it difficult to see what I typed.






Folks don't read, must have been asleep back in the Summer of 2014 or just have reading comprehension issues!!

The law was changed on Aug. 14, 2014 with the new law change. FIDs are NOW DISCRETIONARY, but chief has to get OK from a MA Marsupial Judge (slam dunk) for EVERYONE! Just like LTCs.

That law change also changed the LIFETIME DQs for an FID to be the same as for a LTC.

ANY drug conviction in MA is a LIFETIME DQ for both LTC and FID, period. NO discretion by the chief is allowed.

Don't expect the PDs to know the law. Don't expect PDs or GOAL to change their websites to track the new law anytime soon.

If he wants to blow $100 application fee plus BFS course fee, have at it, but FRB KNOWS the law and they will deny the local PD on the background check.

There is an out for first and only conviction of MJ and that is outlined in C. 94C S. 34C (IIRC) It was referred to earlier in this thread by myself and Rob Boudrie. That is what the person should do first and htat is the only thing that will work in MA.

I'm done in this thread. He can follow the advice given or carry on and learn for himself the hard way. Feel free to doubt me and read the new law plus the 94C out, if you/he wishes.

I got a court martial, 30 days confinement and a BCD for refusing the anthrax vaccine about 16 years ago. I was able to get my FID last year.

 

[tysdad115]

Update for my friends situation. He picked up his FID card last week. Went into a shop today, explained his situation about possibly being denied. They understood, he picked out an FID compliant rifle to purchase. They ran the background check on him and the feds passed him without issue. He now owns the rifle. I don't quite know how or why he passed the check but he's a happy m'fer today.

 

[robjax]

Update for my friends situation. He picked up his FID card last week. Went into a shop today, explained his situation about possibly being denied. They understood, he picked out an FID compliant rifle to purchase. They ran the background check on him and the feds passed him without issue. He now owns the rifle. I don't quite know how or why he passed the check but he's a happy m'fer today.

well, not the best situation. But at least he's in the game. Congrats to him for that.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I found the following in Glidden's book (2014, 23rd Ed). Interesting as it puts a name to the PP status issue:

RESTORATION OF CIVIL RIGHTS
Conflict Between Massachusetts & Federal Law

Excerpt of Case Law Concerning Restoration of Rights

Any restriction on an individual's right to possess firearms after conviction is a complete prohibition on the possession of all firearms under Federal law. Caron v. United States (1998)

Excerpt of Letter to Massachusetts Legislature Concerning Restoration of Rights

While Massachusetts has partially restored the rights of certain felons to possess long guns and handguns under certain conditions, this restoration does not remove federal prohibitions. As a result, previously convicted felons who have not had their firearms rights completely restored may not lawfully possess firearms under Federal law and may face prosecution under section 922(g)(1) despite their lawful possession under State law pursuant to valid FID Cards.

Roy Chabra,
BATF Division Counsel

 

[tysdad115]

Len would that issue have prevented him from passing the check at the shop? Or in your opinion should he be awaiting an ATF agent knocking on his door ? This all makes me very happy I was good at not getting caught doing stupid things when I was young.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len would that issue have prevented him from passing the check at the shop? Or in your opinion should he be awaiting an ATF agent knocking on his door ? This all makes me very happy I was good at not getting caught doing stupid things when I was young.

IIRC, it is a drug conviction and doesn't meet the Fed criteria for NICS to fail.

However that memo basically tells me that in spite of that, if they were ever to become aware of his MA status, they could prosecute as a PP. If he moves to another state it sounds like he would not be a PP.