MA Licensing Question: Class B Non-Large Capacity License to Carry

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NESers,

A friend of mine was issued a Class B Non-Large capacity License to Carry. MA law recently changed to have the FID absorbed into the Class B, and I am reading conflicting information about what exactly a Class B and License to Carry mean.

MA website indicates:
  • License to Carry (LTC): Permits the purchase, possession, transportation and carrying of all large and non-large-capacity handguns, rifles, shotguns and feeding devices a well as ammunition. This is the only license that allows the carrying of concealed handguns-either loaded or unloaded.
However, MGL states:
a Class B license shall not entitle the holder thereof to carry or possess a loaded firearm in a concealed manner in any public way or place;

So, my understanding is that the default answer is no concealed-carry, and limited to non-large capacity. Am I missing anything?

Such bullshit. Ugh.

Thanks,

- P -
 
The restrictions in Class B (no concealed carry, non-large cap) remain in effect, even though Class B's are no longer being issued.

Since the Class B is a different license type than a Class A, the Class B does not need to be expired prior to application for a Class A.
 
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As Rob points out above, he is free to apply for a LTC-A at any time. New application, fee and expiration dates.
 
I know someone who had a Class B which is expiring. He was told it is no longer a renewal and had to submit an appliaction for a new Class A. He was also told he needs a current class cert. Not sure if he had a post 1998 cert.
 
I know someone who had a Class B which is expiring. He was told it is no longer a renewal and had to submit an appliaction for a new Class A. He was also told he needs a current class cert. Not sure if he had a post 1998 cert.

Yes, as we stated it requires a new application. MGL says NO additional classes required. Some chiefs demand a class every renewal. Easier to give in than fight as it will take perhaps years and multi-thousands $$ to win that battle as it is "suitability" and "discretion" that we would not expect a MA marsupial judge to overturn.
 
Yes, as we stated it requires a new application. MGL says NO additional classes required. Some chiefs demand a class every renewal. Easier to give in than fight as it will take perhaps years and multi-thousands $$ to win that battle as it is "suitability" and "discretion" that we would not expect a MA marsupial judge to overturn.

I support Len's response. That said, if you like to get a better understanding of the statute which governs BFS courses, see MGL c. 140 s. 131P.

Section 131P. (a) Any person making application for the issuance of a firearms identification card under section 129B, a Class A or Class B license to carry firearms under section 131 or 131F or a permit to purchase under section 131A who was not licensed under the provisions of this chapter on June 1, 1998 shall, in addition to the requirements set forth in said section 129B, 131, 131A or 131F, submit to the licensing authority a basic firearms safety certificate; provided, however, that a certificate issued by the division of law enforcement in the department of fisheries, wildlife and environmental law enforcement pursuant to the provisions of section 14 of chapter 131 evidencing satisfactory completion of a hunter education course shall serve as a valid substitute for a basic firearms safety certificate required under this section. Persons lawfully possessing a firearm identification card or license to carry firearms on June 1, 1998 shall be exempt from the provisions of this section upon expiration of such card or license and when applying for licensure as required under this chapter. No application for the issuance of a firearm identification card or license to carry shall be accepted or processed by the licensing authority without such certificate attached thereto; provided, however, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) any officer, agent or employee of the commonwealth or any state of the United States; (ii) any member of the military or other service of any state or of the United States; (iii) any duly authorized law enforcement officer, agent or employee of any municipality of the commonwealth; provided, however, that any such person described in clauses (i) to (iii), inclusive, is authorized by a competent authority to carry or possess the weapon so carried or possessed and is acting within the scope of his duties.

See also 5.15 CMR 3.05

3.05: Basic Firearms Safety Course Curriculum Approval Certification
(1.)Applicability.
a.) Any person lawfully licensed with a FID card on June 1, 1998 shall not be required to complete the statutorily required BFS course or submit a BFS certificate for:
1.) subsequent FID card renewals; or
2.) subsequent LTC licensure and renewals.
(b) Any person lawfully licensed with a LTC card on June 1, 1998 shall not be required to complete the statutorily required BFS course or submit a BFS certificate for:
1.) subsequent LTC renewals; or
2.) subsequent FID card licensure and renewals.
(c) Any person licensed after June 1, 1998 who completed a BFS course for an initial FID card or LTC shall not be required to complete a subsequent statutorily required BFS course or submit a BFS Certificate for FID card or LTC renewals.
(2.) Basic Firearms Safety Course Curriculum Criteria. Curriculum for a BFS course shall include curriculum criteria as described in G.L. c. 140, § 131P(b).
(a) A BFS course used as a prerequisite for a FID shall use rifles and/or shotguns as the primary subject matter of the curriculum unless the course is an approved LTC BFS course. A BFS course used as a prerequisite for a LTC shall use pistols and/or revolvers as the primary subject matter of the curriculum.
(b) Certain BFS course curriculums do not contain a firearms related law component. Such curriculums can still meet Department of State Police curriculum criteria by utilizing guest speakers familiar with firearms laws or by utilizing or distributing to its students written informational pamphlets/books/videos by an entity/individual familiar with firearms laws to cover that portion of the course.
(3.) FID Card Basic Firearms Safety Courses. The following BFS courses, with fulfillment of 515 CMR 3.05(2)(b) requirements as applicable, meet the Department of State Police's criteria for obtaining a FID card and are approved:
(a) NRA Basic Rifle or Shotgun Courses;
(b) SIG Arms Academy Firearms Orientation and Familiarization Courses for Shotgun, Carbine or Rifle; and
(c) Smith & Wesson Academy Massachusetts F.I.D. Safety Training Course.
(d) Approved LTC Basic Firearms Safety Course as set forth in 515 CMR 3.05(4) or (5).
(4.) LTC Basic Firearms Safety Courses. The following BFS courses, with fulfillment of 515 CMR 3.05(2)(b) requirements as applicable, meet the Department of State Police's criteria for obtaining a LTC and are approved:
(a)Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association Basic Handgun Safety Course;
(b) NRA Basic Pistol Course, NRA Personal Protection Course or NRA Home Safety Course;
(c) SIG Arms Academy Handgun Orientation Course; and
(d) Smith & Wesson Academy Massachusetts Carry Permit Course.
(5.) Courses Not Listed in 515 CMR 3.05(3) and (4). Additional courses will be approved on an individual basis at the discretion of the Colonel pursuant to 515 CMR 3.05(6).
(6.) Issuance of Basic Firearms Safety Course Curriculum Approval Certification. For courses not listed in this section, a BFS course curriculum approval application can be obtained by writing to the Department of State Police, Licensing Unit, 470 Worcester Road, Framingham, MA 01702. The application can be mailed or delivered to the same address. A letter approving the course or denying approval because the course does not meet the curriculum requirements will be mailed to the applicant.
(7.) Basic Firearms Safety Course Completion Certificate. Certificates of completion shall be provided by the certified BFS instructor to the student upon successful completion of a BFS course, approved as set forth in 515 CMR 3.05. All such certificates shall be in a form prescribed by the Colonel and shall contain the following information:
(a) Course title and the fact the course was approved in accordance with 515 CMR 3.05;
(b) Purpose for which course was offered, i.e. "Valid for FID Card" or "Valid for LTC" (Courses valid for LTC are also valid for FID Cards);
(c) Name and date of birth of the student;
(d) Date of course completion; and
(e.) Certified BFS instructor's typed or printed name, signature, and BFS Instructor Certification number.

The short version is that c.140 s. 131P, requires (with limited exceptions for official law enforcement/military/government use) applicants for FID cards or LTCs to have successfully completed an applicable BFS course or DFW hunter safety course unless they possessed an FID or LTC on 1 June 1998. 5.15 CMR 3.05(1)(C) clarifies that persons issued an LTC or FID after 1 June 1998 should not be asked for their certificate again at renewal time.

Edited with a question that perhaps Len may be able to think through better than I-
Given that a class upgrade (from B to A) is in effect a new initial application for a class A license, could an issuing authority effectively defend a policy of requiring a BFS certificate from such applicant on the basis that it is necessary to present a BFS certificate (for an LTC course) since c. 140 s. 131P does not waive the requirement to show a BFS certificate for persons licensed after 1 June 1998 and the 5.15 CMR 3.05 (1)(C) exemption explicitly only applies to renewals (despite the practical reality that person possessing any LTC issued after 1 June 1998 would (should?) inherently have successfully completed a BFS course?
 
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The FID was not "absorbed" into the LTC-B. There are still FID's, and there are LTC's, and there are still old LTC-B's that are still in effect as B's until such time as they renew or get their licensing authority to effectively "expire" (by what means I don't know) and issue a new LTC.
 
Edited with a question that perhaps Len may be able to think through better than I- [/B]Given that a class upgrade (from B to A) is in effect a new initial application for a class A license, could an issuing authority effectively defend a policy of requiring a BFS certificate from such applicant on the basis that it is necessary to present a BFS certificate (for an LTC course) since c. 140 s. 131P does not waive the requirement to show a BFS certificate for persons licensed after 1 June 1998 and the 5.15 CMR 3.05 (1)(C) exemption explicitly only applies to renewals (despite the practical reality that person possessing any LTC issued after 1 June 1998 would (should?) inherently have successfully completed a BFS course?

Upgrades from FID to LTC (A or B) or LTC-B to LTC-A do require a new fee and application as license numbers change as well as issue/expiration dates. However, it was made clear to LOs many times that those jumps in licensing do NOT require new courses or certificates unless one had an FID-only certificate and was applying for a LTC.

What chiefs do is whatever they please as nobody is going to stop them in MA courts. No judge will say "nah, no additional training is desired". It would take a Comm2A case in USDC to perhaps get that sort of ruling and I'm not taking bets on winning there either from what I've seen lately.


The FID was not "absorbed" into the LTC-B. There are still FID's, and there are LTC's, and there are still old LTC-B's that are still in effect as B's until such time as they renew or get their licensing authority to effectively "expire" (by what means I don't know) and issue a new LTC.

Correct. Any license can be expired early by request of the LO to FRB. It's an administrative thing that FRB is willing to do.
 
Upgrades from FID to LTC (A or B) or LTC-B to LTC-A do require a new fee and application as license numbers change as well as issue/expiration dates. However, it was made clear to LOs many times that those jumps in licensing do NOT require new courses or certificates unless one had an FID-only certificate and was applying for a LTC.

What chiefs do is whatever they please as nobody is going to stop them in MA courts. No judge will say "nah, no additional training is desired". It would take a Comm2A case in USDC to perhaps get that sort of ruling and I'm not taking bets on winning there either from what I've seen lately.




Correct. Any license can be expired early by request of the LO to FRB. It's an administrative thing that FRB is willing to do.

Just be aware that a PD that makes extra requirements, throws up roadblocks and is otherwise a pain to deal with is probably not going to have a LO that is willing to do that. They are not required to, so unless they feel like it/are having a good day/are your drinking buddy don't count on it from a place that is already putting the screws to you.
 
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