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MA-Gun Laws (Fed & MA) and Inheritance
- Thread starter Len-2A Training
- Start date
I am sure this has been asked and answered, but I just want to be 100% clear with regards to my current circumstances. I have tried to read the 22 pages of posts here, but they tend to jump around a bit. My first pass reading seems to say I would be Ok given the scenario below.
My Grandfather, while reasonably healthy, is in his 80's. He has a modest but sentimentally important collection of firearms, some of which were my Grandmother's as well as some of which are his. He lives in Oregon and has stated that upon his passing, my aunt (the only one of of his kids legally able to possess firearms at this point, and executor of his estate) and I can split up his collection as we see fit.
I want to be 100% sure that I will not get caught in a Massprudence scenario if I am not explicitly named as the inheritor of specific firearms.
Am I likely to run into any issues if his will (as it sits today) directs the executor to distribute the firearms in his collection to interested and eligible family members by means of mutual agreement, or if none come forward, to sell them?
My Grandfather, while reasonably healthy, is in his 80's. He has a modest but sentimentally important collection of firearms, some of which were my Grandmother's as well as some of which are his. He lives in Oregon and has stated that upon his passing, my aunt (the only one of of his kids legally able to possess firearms at this point, and executor of his estate) and I can split up his collection as we see fit.
I want to be 100% sure that I will not get caught in a Massprudence scenario if I am not explicitly named as the inheritor of specific firearms.
Am I likely to run into any issues if his will (as it sits today) directs the executor to distribute the firearms in his collection to interested and eligible family members by means of mutual agreement, or if none come forward, to sell them?
Why don't you have him create a codicil that specifies you are to receive them (maybe stating that the Aunt and you are to split them up). That should solve the potential problem. IANAL but I have never seen a need to list mfr/SN/etc. to legally inherit them even in MA to meet the law . . . you might do that wrt any sentimental guns but that is for a different reason.
Thank you for the input, I will reach out to my aunt to get this done. I really do wish this was clearer and easier to follow. So many pitfalls it seems.
Good morning everyone,
I'll start by apologizing if I missed the information or, somehow, think my situation is unique when it really is not. I have three firearms, two rifles and one shotgun. They are all hunting guns, nothing that would be banned.
1. One rifle is from my grandfather-in-law. He passed away before I married into the family and, when we were cleaning out his home the other day, we found a rifle that nobody knew existed. The rifle was never registered, he never had a license, and I don't see a serial number on it. Based on what I found on the forum, this REQUIRES a dealer to process the transaction and I cannot just "register" it or inherit it and skip where it came from online. Is that true?
2 and 3. Both are firearms that I have owned since I was a kid growing up in West Virginia. Because WV is not crazy like Massachusetts, these hunting guns were never required to be registered and I never needed a license to exercise my right as an American. When I moved up here, I left the guns back home because I was in the military and didn't want to have to keep track of them as I moved around. I didn't move around much and stayed in Ma for the past 10 years. I was hoping I could just "bring them up" and, because they are not a transfer, I wouldn't need to register them. What I'm reading, however, is that crossing the states to get them up here would be the crime and I would need them to go through a dealer down there, shipped to a dealer up here. Because one of them was inherited and my grandfather would kick my ass if he ever found out I registered this (or any) gun, I am wondering what I can do to bring up the gun. While it was always mine and never registered before, I am trying to bring this up because my grandmother (whose father was the original owner of the gun) passed away this summer. Can I treat that as an inheritance and drive it up?
Again, I've read over the past couple of days, the whole thread. I will again apologize if I missed this exact answer and I assume this situation isn't as unique as I think so I'm sorry.
Thanks again.
Matt
I'll start by apologizing if I missed the information or, somehow, think my situation is unique when it really is not. I have three firearms, two rifles and one shotgun. They are all hunting guns, nothing that would be banned.
1. One rifle is from my grandfather-in-law. He passed away before I married into the family and, when we were cleaning out his home the other day, we found a rifle that nobody knew existed. The rifle was never registered, he never had a license, and I don't see a serial number on it. Based on what I found on the forum, this REQUIRES a dealer to process the transaction and I cannot just "register" it or inherit it and skip where it came from online. Is that true?
2 and 3. Both are firearms that I have owned since I was a kid growing up in West Virginia. Because WV is not crazy like Massachusetts, these hunting guns were never required to be registered and I never needed a license to exercise my right as an American. When I moved up here, I left the guns back home because I was in the military and didn't want to have to keep track of them as I moved around. I didn't move around much and stayed in Ma for the past 10 years. I was hoping I could just "bring them up" and, because they are not a transfer, I wouldn't need to register them. What I'm reading, however, is that crossing the states to get them up here would be the crime and I would need them to go through a dealer down there, shipped to a dealer up here. Because one of them was inherited and my grandfather would kick my ass if he ever found out I registered this (or any) gun, I am wondering what I can do to bring up the gun. While it was always mine and never registered before, I am trying to bring this up because my grandmother (whose father was the original owner of the gun) passed away this summer. Can I treat that as an inheritance and drive it up?
Again, I've read over the past couple of days, the whole thread. I will again apologize if I missed this exact answer and I assume this situation isn't as unique as I think so I'm sorry.
Thanks again.
Matt
Asaltweapon
NES Member
Len,
Is the first page of this thread still correct in the transfer of firearms from a deceased? Is a rather large mixed collection.
Party A passed giving everything to party B who is not a MA resident.
Party A wished that Party B would share some of these with Parties C&D who are both MA residents. Party C has a LTC-A and Party D is in the process of applying.
Can you provide any help or should I contact my NFA attorney? No, these are not going to me.
Is the first page of this thread still correct in the transfer of firearms from a deceased? Is a rather large mixed collection.
Party A passed giving everything to party B who is not a MA resident.
Party A wished that Party B would share some of these with Parties C&D who are both MA residents. Party C has a LTC-A and Party D is in the process of applying.
Can you provide any help or should I contact my NFA attorney? No, these are not going to me.
Wishes put down on paper works for inheritance.
Wishes NOT put down on paper (will, letter, etc.) sadly don't count.
Laws haven't changed. Hot links may well have changed . . . the state does that every few years, feds do too but not as frequently.
If wishes were documented, the executor can distribute accordingly across state lines, no problem (as long as recipients have LTC if in MA). If wishes weren't documented they are everyday transfers across state lines and must go thru FFLs (handguns thru new owner's home state FFL . . . which means EOPS List and AG Regs come into play unless new owner has a C&R FFL AND the guns are C&R qualified).
Wishes NOT put down on paper (will, letter, etc.) sadly don't count.
Laws haven't changed. Hot links may well have changed . . . the state does that every few years, feds do too but not as frequently.
If wishes were documented, the executor can distribute accordingly across state lines, no problem (as long as recipients have LTC if in MA). If wishes weren't documented they are everyday transfers across state lines and must go thru FFLs (handguns thru new owner's home state FFL . . . which means EOPS List and AG Regs come into play unless new owner has a C&R FFL AND the guns are C&R qualified).
Asaltweapon
NES Member
Thanks Len.
FFL to FFL for interstate xfer
Just register in MA under new ownership (ie: registration box checked)
FFL to FFL for interstate xfer
Just register in MA under new ownership (ie: registration box checked)
No FFLs needed or desired if person was named in writing to inherit the guns. Otherwise an FFL is required (Fed Law) . . . in new owner's state for handguns and any state for long guns. If new owner is a C&R FFL and gun is C&R, that suffices without any other FFLs involved even if not named to inherit.
FA-10 as registration . . . NO info on gun source, in any case.
Idoktr
NES Member
asking for a friend and cannot find her situation in this thread. she lives and is licensed in MA. father has early Alzheimer's and lives in CT. He wants to give her his pistols and rifles now to get them out of the house in CT. What does she need to do to legally transport them here and "register" them. Not sure of brands of guns.
thanks
thanks
She can "borrow" them from her Father and have him put in his Will that they are hers on his passing. At that point they would be hers and she'd have to register them (no source info) on eFA-10 or whatever is in use when that happens.
Otherwise, likely the pistols won't be transferable to her by a MA dealer (not on EOPS List/AG Regs compliant). Long guns can be transferred in now via an FFL. She wouldn't be able to do it in CT easily, as she needs a CT license to do it and I have no idea what else. If she brings him with the long guns to a MA FFL, it should be a painless process. Handguns, you'd need to know make/model and S/N and ask the MA FFL directly.
Otherwise, likely the pistols won't be transferable to her by a MA dealer (not on EOPS List/AG Regs compliant). Long guns can be transferred in now via an FFL. She wouldn't be able to do it in CT easily, as she needs a CT license to do it and I have no idea what else. If she brings him with the long guns to a MA FFL, it should be a painless process. Handguns, you'd need to know make/model and S/N and ask the MA FFL directly.
I think I have the answer screwed up, upside down and backwards so here's my scenario...
A family member passed away quickly without warning and no will was ever produced. The only directive on paper was his daughter was to act as executor. As executor she wants me to inherit a compliant (not sure if it matters) pistol. The deceased was a MA resident like myself but the executor is a CT res. Now a twist that I don't understand. Somehow this pistol ended up at the PD. I'm assuming he was probably carrying it at the time of incident. Being that the executor is from CT and does not have a permit my father was allowed to sign it out at the PD and it has remained in his possession since. Can I take possession and fa-10? Would something need to be put on paper from the executer? I'm sure my father and the PD would like me to show that the pistol is now in my possession vs my fathers'
A family member passed away quickly without warning and no will was ever produced. The only directive on paper was his daughter was to act as executor. As executor she wants me to inherit a compliant (not sure if it matters) pistol. The deceased was a MA resident like myself but the executor is a CT res. Now a twist that I don't understand. Somehow this pistol ended up at the PD. I'm assuming he was probably carrying it at the time of incident. Being that the executor is from CT and does not have a permit my father was allowed to sign it out at the PD and it has remained in his possession since. Can I take possession and fa-10? Would something need to be put on paper from the executer? I'm sure my father and the PD would like me to show that the pistol is now in my possession vs my fathers'
IANAL and I honestly am not sure if I'm answering this one correctly, but I *believe* that if you aren't listed in the will in MA, you might have to do the transfer through an FFL.
When someone passes away without a will, each state designates a "pecking order" for inheritance intestate. If you fit the category per the state law then you are an heir and can easily get possession of the gun (it has become more complicated by the busybody PD getting involved however). If you did not fit that category, you are not legally entitled to "inherit" the gun and getting possession is then the same as buying any other gun from a person or dealer.
The PD should NEVER have touched the gun, the executor could indeed legally have taken possession directly regardless of her state of residence. PDs frequently stick their nose in and confiscate guns when someone dies, tell family that they can't possess them (executor in particular) without a LTC, that they must go thru FFLs, etc. All BULLSHIT, but done very frequently either out of ignorance or arrogance.
From what you stated it isn't clear if your Father was made to sign a FA-10 or not. If so, he is now the legal owner. Unclear if your Father is a MA resident but if so and he did an FA-10, then he can transfer it to you on an eFA-10 and it is NONE of the PD's business, period. If he was merely given the gun by the PD, it still belongs to the estate and see my 1st paragraph above wrt how you take possession.
In any case, an eFA-10 must be done to show you as the new owner. If under inheritance, use the "REGISTRATION" form on the state website, put down NO INFORMATION on the gun's source, strictly the description of the gun and your info. If it is done thru your Father (must be a MA Resident LTC holder) you do a FTF transfer on the eFA-10. If thru an FFL (which some won't do unless you can prove grandfathered or EOPS & AG Regs compliant), the MA FFL will do the paperwork with you.
The PD should NEVER have touched the gun, the executor could indeed legally have taken possession directly regardless of her state of residence. PDs frequently stick their nose in and confiscate guns when someone dies, tell family that they can't possess them (executor in particular) without a LTC, that they must go thru FFLs, etc. All BULLSHIT, but done very frequently either out of ignorance or arrogance.
From what you stated it isn't clear if your Father was made to sign a FA-10 or not. If so, he is now the legal owner. Unclear if your Father is a MA resident but if so and he did an FA-10, then he can transfer it to you on an eFA-10 and it is NONE of the PD's business, period. If he was merely given the gun by the PD, it still belongs to the estate and see my 1st paragraph above wrt how you take possession.
In any case, an eFA-10 must be done to show you as the new owner. If under inheritance, use the "REGISTRATION" form on the state website, put down NO INFORMATION on the gun's source, strictly the description of the gun and your info. If it is done thru your Father (must be a MA Resident LTC holder) you do a FTF transfer on the eFA-10. If thru an FFL (which some won't do unless you can prove grandfathered or EOPS & AG Regs compliant), the MA FFL will do the paperwork with you.
Hi All,
Okay. I've finished reading through this entire thread and have learned a lot. Thanks! I have a situation that is a little different from anything I've seen here, though, or found in other searches, so I thought I'd ask here.
My wife and I live in MA. My wife's father lived in CT. He died late August 2012. He had 3 hand guns and maybe 5 long guns, but for this question/post I will keep it focused on only 1 of those guns that we are truly interested in. It was a Walther P38 handgun that his father (my wife's grand father) brought back to the United States after WWII. To my knowledge, my father-in-law did not have a LTC in CT and the gun was not registered. My father-in-law did not have a will, was not married, my wife is his only child, and ther was never any probate case. I looked up the CT intestate succession law and it states that under that condition, she is the inheritor of everything. The gun is currently in the gun safe of a friend in CT who has an LTC.
Knowing nothing about firearms , I (not my wife) had finally gotten around to applying for my LTC in MA (I am still waiting to receive it) thinking that this would make it possible for me to just own the gun afterward. Of course, I've done a lot (for me!) of reading on this site since applying for my LTC and now know that I couldn't have been more wrong in this assumption. So, of course, the question is...how do we legally "own" the gun?
From what I now think I understand, there was a 180 day cutoff for my wife to drive the gun to MA from CT and apply for a MA LTC. Since the 180 days has well passed, that option is completely out, correct?
Another option, I hope, is that since the gun is a C&R (correct?) and since she is technically the owner via inheritance (correct?), are we able to contact an FFL in CT, contact an FFL in MA, and have our friend drive us and the gun to the FFL in CT to set up an interstate transfer to me once I get my MA LTC?
Thanks in advance!
p.s. - Please be gentle with me. This is my first time (post).![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Okay. I've finished reading through this entire thread and have learned a lot. Thanks! I have a situation that is a little different from anything I've seen here, though, or found in other searches, so I thought I'd ask here.
My wife and I live in MA. My wife's father lived in CT. He died late August 2012. He had 3 hand guns and maybe 5 long guns, but for this question/post I will keep it focused on only 1 of those guns that we are truly interested in. It was a Walther P38 handgun that his father (my wife's grand father) brought back to the United States after WWII. To my knowledge, my father-in-law did not have a LTC in CT and the gun was not registered. My father-in-law did not have a will, was not married, my wife is his only child, and ther was never any probate case. I looked up the CT intestate succession law and it states that under that condition, she is the inheritor of everything. The gun is currently in the gun safe of a friend in CT who has an LTC.
Knowing nothing about firearms , I (not my wife) had finally gotten around to applying for my LTC in MA (I am still waiting to receive it) thinking that this would make it possible for me to just own the gun afterward. Of course, I've done a lot (for me!) of reading on this site since applying for my LTC and now know that I couldn't have been more wrong in this assumption. So, of course, the question is...how do we legally "own" the gun?
From what I now think I understand, there was a 180 day cutoff for my wife to drive the gun to MA from CT and apply for a MA LTC. Since the 180 days has well passed, that option is completely out, correct?
Another option, I hope, is that since the gun is a C&R (correct?) and since she is technically the owner via inheritance (correct?), are we able to contact an FFL in CT, contact an FFL in MA, and have our friend drive us and the gun to the FFL in CT to set up an interstate transfer to me once I get my MA LTC?
Thanks in advance!
p.s. - Please be gentle with me. This is my first time (post).
Ryan,
Sorry for your loss.
Your Wife (and not you) is the legal owner of the gun. The cleanest way to do this is that she gets her LTC, and then takes legal possession of the gun. Then she merely eFA-10s the gun as "registration" (NO info on source of the gun) and done. You can shoot it all you want.
I don't know CT laws wrt inheritance. I am very knowledgeable of the MA law on inheritance.
No MA FFL can legally transfer the gun since it is not on the EOPS List, so that option is a non-starter.
Legally as the executrix (or whatever the non-probate equivalent term is) she could have immediately taken possession of the gun before settlement of the estate and then get licensed within 180 days of that. From the timing you describe, that window has closed.
Any further questions, I'm sure you'll have some, please PM me.
Sorry for your loss.
Your Wife (and not you) is the legal owner of the gun. The cleanest way to do this is that she gets her LTC, and then takes legal possession of the gun. Then she merely eFA-10s the gun as "registration" (NO info on source of the gun) and done. You can shoot it all you want.
I don't know CT laws wrt inheritance. I am very knowledgeable of the MA law on inheritance.
No MA FFL can legally transfer the gun since it is not on the EOPS List, so that option is a non-starter.
Legally as the executrix (or whatever the non-probate equivalent term is) she could have immediately taken possession of the gun before settlement of the estate and then get licensed within 180 days of that. From the timing you describe, that window has closed.
Any further questions, I'm sure you'll have some, please PM me.
dcmdon
NES Member
Ryan,
A couple of background items re CT possession.
1) CT does not have registration. A firearm that old would not be expected to be "registered". CT tracks handgun transfers, and has done so since 1994. If a handgun has not transferred since then, its not in any database. All perfectly legal.
2) Unlike MA no license is required to own firearms of any kind. You need a CT pistol permit to carry or purchase a firearm, but once you have it, there is no need to maintain any kind of license.
The bottom line is that the gun is owned perfectly legally and can remain wherever it is in CT with whomever has it indefinitely until you sort out the MA issues.
Take a deep breath. Relax. Wait until you or your wife gets your LTC and take it from there. Also. Call me. I PM'd you my phone number.
I hold both an MA LTC and a CT pistol permit. I may be able to help you get it to the MA line. At which point I will hand it to you, and you take it home to FA10 it.
Don
A couple of background items re CT possession.
1) CT does not have registration. A firearm that old would not be expected to be "registered". CT tracks handgun transfers, and has done so since 1994. If a handgun has not transferred since then, its not in any database. All perfectly legal.
2) Unlike MA no license is required to own firearms of any kind. You need a CT pistol permit to carry or purchase a firearm, but once you have it, there is no need to maintain any kind of license.
The bottom line is that the gun is owned perfectly legally and can remain wherever it is in CT with whomever has it indefinitely until you sort out the MA issues.
Take a deep breath. Relax. Wait until you or your wife gets your LTC and take it from there. Also. Call me. I PM'd you my phone number.
I hold both an MA LTC and a CT pistol permit. I may be able to help you get it to the MA line. At which point I will hand it to you, and you take it home to FA10 it.
Don
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Delkancott
NES Member
Going back to this post in 2013. A collection of firearms (black powder, long guns and handguns) belonged to a individual who passed away roughly two decades ago. The guns were received by the "wished" party as written by the deceased, but they were never registered as it was not known to be necessary. Can the guns still be registered as to be in full legal possession? Would that be the EFA10 form mentioned with no seller info, just firearm info? Or would it require an FFL?
Is there a limit to the number that can be registered? Is there a cost? Do black powder or muzzle loaders need to be registered?
The current owner has a Class A LTC unrestricted.
See post # 179. Same answer as I posted then.
Delkancott
NES Member
MA-Gun Laws (Fed & MA) and Inheritance
Thank you.
Should they be concerned with any of the older handguns not being on the list or is that irrelevant because it's not via an FFL?
Thank you.
Should they be concerned with any of the older handguns not being on the list or is that irrelevant because it's not via an FFL?
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namedpipes
NES Member
No FFL. No List issues. The guns are already in-state and regardless are being passed by inheritance.
Just follow Len-2A's advice and relax. You're legal (at least as *I* understand it - IANAL)
FFLs ONLY are the ones who have to abide by "the list" of approved handguns. MGL & Fed Law both allow for inheritance WITHOUT involving FFLs, even if it is across state lines.
If an inheritance handgun "touches" a MA Dealer, and it is not on the EOPS List, no MA resident will (legally) be able to get possession of said gun (unless someone has a paper trail to prove it was in MA on/before 10/21/1998 which grandfather's the gun). This is why on inheritance nobody should deal with a FFL!!!
If an inheritance handgun "touches" a MA Dealer, and it is not on the EOPS List, no MA resident will (legally) be able to get possession of said gun (unless someone has a paper trail to prove it was in MA on/before 10/21/1998 which grandfather's the gun). This is why on inheritance nobody should deal with a FFL!!!
OK guys- So my scenario... Brother passed away, left me his possessions in will. He has a current MA LTC, but did not register all 6 guns, in particular Springfield XD with high cap mags bought in Fla around 2006. I am currently waiting for my LTC renewal to arrive shortly ( I hope ) . I understand the others, including a series 80 Gold Cup and Ruger Mark 11 are good to go, to be checked off as inheritance on FA -10. Understand the black powder rifle and pistol in collection don't need to be registered, but what about the Springfield with the High Caps ?
Thanks
Thanks
Sorry for your loss.
No you don't understand what should be done!
It doesn't matter what your late Brother did or didn't register.
You absolutely should NOT use the "inheritance" option on the eFA-10 website. Read above and elsewhere . . . just do a "REGISTRATION" and ignore the screen requesting where you got the gun, just give them gun info and your info.
Each one of those XD large-capacity mags are a felony to possess unless you are a LEO! Regardless of what your late Brother did or didn't do, you can't possess them in MA without risking 5 or 10 years (don't recall which) in prison for each mag! Get them out of state "yesterday" and get 10 rd mags for the XD. Everything else sounds OK from what you posted.
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I've gone through this thread but I'm still confused about the situation I'm in. My dad passed away at the end of March. During his last days, he asked me to remove his firearms from the house and bring them home. Between those, and others he loaned me over the years, I have quite a few of his firearms now. I'm still within the 180 day window to register them, but am I permitted to submit more than 4 per year? My mother is in her 70s, and isn't licensed, which is why he wanted me to get them out of the house before he passed.
Another concern I have is I know some of those firearms were my grandfathers. I have no idea if my father filed FA-10s for those firearms after my grandfather passed. If he didn't, would that be a problem for me?
Another concern I have is I know some of those firearms were my grandfathers. I have no idea if my father filed FA-10s for those firearms after my grandfather passed. If he didn't, would that be a problem for me?
Sorry for your loss.
Past registrations (or not) are totally irrelevant!
180 days is also totally irrelevant. It does not mean what everyone tells you that it means, and not relevant to your situation.
The real question is "did you inherit these guns?" or in other words did he leave them to you? If so, you merely REGISTER them (eFA-10, Registration option, IGNORE 1st screen requesting the source of the guns). Do NOT use the "inheritance" option on the website, it is legally not required, demands too much irrelevant info, etc.
The 4/calendar year limitation is ONLY on OUTGOING transfers, not on inheritance or incoming guns.
Past registrations (or not) are totally irrelevant!
180 days is also totally irrelevant. It does not mean what everyone tells you that it means, and not relevant to your situation.
The real question is "did you inherit these guns?" or in other words did he leave them to you? If so, you merely REGISTER them (eFA-10, Registration option, IGNORE 1st screen requesting the source of the guns). Do NOT use the "inheritance" option on the website, it is legally not required, demands too much irrelevant info, etc.
The 4/calendar year limitation is ONLY on OUTGOING transfers, not on inheritance or incoming guns.
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MA-Gun Laws (Fed & MA) and Inheritance
Thanks for the reply. My dad didn't have a written will, but everyone in the family knew his wishes and nobody has any desire to contest it. Over the last few years he would tell us to take specific firearms home and keep them as long as we wanted. It was his way of making sure each person got what he wanted them to have. By the time he was in hospice care, he only had three revolvers left in his safe, and those were the last ones he asked me to remove from the house.
So, would I just fill out the form and leave the seller portion blank? Or do I need to have my mother also fill out something as the executor of his estate? I just worry about getting flagged for registering a bunch of firearms all at once in this state.
Thanks for the reply. My dad didn't have a written will, but everyone in the family knew his wishes and nobody has any desire to contest it. Over the last few years he would tell us to take specific firearms home and keep them as long as we wanted. It was his way of making sure each person got what he wanted them to have. By the time he was in hospice care, he only had three revolvers left in his safe, and those were the last ones he asked me to remove from the house.
So, would I just fill out the form and leave the seller portion blank? Or do I need to have my mother also fill out something as the executor of his estate? I just worry about getting flagged for registering a bunch of firearms all at once in this state.
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A little off topic, but funny enough to mention. I found hand written notes from my grandfather from when he bought some of his guns decades ago. My favorite one said "Bought from some guy at a bar who needed money". Times sure have changed, haven't they? 
