MA Firearms Instructor question

Ae1m

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Sorry if this is the wrong group. I have been a MA Firearms Instructor for many years. The renewal form was emailed to me from the Firearms Licensing Dept with a cover letter. The cover letter includes a new item "In addition, you must also provide up-to-date (bolded) documentation that you are competent to give instruction as a Basic Certified Instructor"

WTF are you supposed to send to prove competence?

B
 
Sorry if this is the wrong group. I have been a MA Firearms Instructor for many years. The renewal form was emailed to me from the Firearms Licensing Dept with a cover letter. The cover letter includes a new item "In addition, you must also provide up-to-date (bolded) documentation that you are competent to give instruction as a Basic Certified Instructor"

WTF are you supposed to send to prove competence?

B
$ 10. Jack.
 
Sorry if this is the wrong group.
Well, you found the Mass Gun Laws subforum,
which places you in an elite group.


The most recent (Friday, 29-Mar'19) issue of Friday News from GOAL says:

Important News for MSP Certified BFS Instructors
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...
GOAL has re-introduced the BFS Primer for Certified Instructors course at the request of both alumni and Lt. Alan Zani of the Mass State Police. This new seminar will be initially offered four times around the state through April of this year. [It looks to me like the last class is sold out, but call GOAL/AHM]
Topics Include:
  • Applicable Laws regarding the possession, transportation and storage of guns within the Commonwealth
  • Suicide prevention and emotional health resources
  • Instructor Requirements under 5.15 CMR 3.05 and Chapter 140 § 131P(b)
  • LEOSA Requirements under 515 CMR 6.00
The Massachusetts State Police requires current supportive firearms certifications for BFS and/or LEOSA Instructors who are renewing their MA certifications according to Lt. Zani. If your current BFS and/or LEOSA Instructor supportive training certifications have lapsed since you received your original MA BFS and/or LEOSA Instructor certifications, successfully completing this four hour course will fulfill this requirement.

Attendees will receive a course certificate, various handouts, and materials. Presenters will be Jon Green from GOAL and Kristin Ryan of the MSP. GOAL is working to find additional venues in the western, central and north eastern parts of the state and will post dates/locations ASAP.

Seating will be limited and pre-registration is required. ...​

Is this relevant to you?

Please contact Jon Green at GOAL if this sounds relevant.
Don't take my word for it.
Particularly, don't take my word for whether Saturday's course is full-up.
 
This is clear as mud. I have several years before my MSP BFS certification expires, my NRA certifications are up to date. Do I still need to take this course, and by when?
 
If your current BFS and/or LEOSA Instructor supportive training certifications have lapsed

So, I know nothing about this aside from what I just read. But I interpret that statement as whatever supportive documentation you used to become a BFS instructor, if it has not expired should be good for renewal. So in my case, if I have maintained my instructor certs with the NRA, those current certs should qualify me.

But I’ll call to find out, and will be following this thread.
 
Call the Lt. at MSP. From what I can determine, an NRA course isn't adequate. Jon Green posted some info here. I sent a question about it to the MSP Lt. and haven't heard anything back in a week.
Len, I recently just became a MA Certified instructor last month. I obviously have plenty of military credentials but the only civilian one I have is the NRA Instructor. This was all I needed to become one. Now, I did get a call from the MSP (from a gentleman by the name of Lieutenant Zani I believe) who basically gave me a quick 2 minute Do’s and Don’ts on basic liabilities of being an instructor in this state. He double checked all my information: name, address ,LTC, NRA Cert and I was good to go. Now like I said this was for a new instructor not a renewal certificate. I don’t know if something has changed as far as your 10 years being up and having to renew. Hope this helps.
 
Yes, something has changed and he now wants us to take a specific course only given by GOAL in order to "re-qualify" for renewal. I don't know exact date this kicked in, but I have confirmed that info thru a conversation with Jon Green. I sent Lt. Zani an Email (no response received) asking if any other courses would work and whether my Mass Gun Law Seminar (with some modifications he could suggest) might suffice.

I have ~8 yrs left on my BFS and LEOSA MSP Certs so I'm not going to worry too much about this latest twist. I doubt that Lt. Zani will still be in that position in 8 yrs and I don't know if I'll still be teaching BFS courses then. Also, by then they will likely have made more changes to what they expect from us, you can bet on it!
 
I'm too old for this shit. I'll just let mine expire. Never use it anyway. I only took it out years ago when the owner of the Mill wanted the LTC. Gave him the course. At that time the PD was asking for that, references and a letter. He took all this to the PD, saw the chief who knew him and who promptly shitcand everything and expedited his LTC. Fun and games. Jack.
 
Len, I'm taking the GOAL class that you speak of at Haverhill tomorrow. I'll try to confirm what you said, unless maybe we can get something from Jon Green or from the State Police to confirm this. I scoured their sites, State Police, to see if this new course was needed and couldn't find anything on it.
 
I took the course last Saturday in Holyoke. It is true that the mini course from Jon/GOAL covers some additional elements regarding storage, transportation et al that are not covered by the NRA basic pistol course and apparently are required by the state.
 
Len, I'm taking the GOAL class that you speak of at Haverhill tomorrow. I'll try to confirm what you said, unless maybe we can get something from Jon Green or from the State Police to confirm this. I scoured their sites, State Police, to see if this new course was needed and couldn't find anything on it.
Ask Jon. I think that you'll find that just like the many police chiefs that make up rules/requirements, this is one made up by MSP. Considering how little most BFS instructors actually know about Mass gun laws, I'm not surprised that MSP added this "requirement".
 
I think that you'll find that just like the many police chiefs that make up rules/requirements, this is one made up by MSP. Considering how little most BFS instructors actually know about Mass gun laws, I'm not surprised that MSP added this "requirement".
Imagine if students got so well-educated that they started going passive-aggressive with Commonwealth v. Haskell, etc.; good and hard.
 
Yes, something has changed and he now wants us to take a specific course only given by GOAL in order to "re-qualify" for renewal.
Not unless something has changed since I received the same notice at renewal time.

I have been coughing up the modest tribute to the NRA to keep my NRA Instructor certification up2date and that was accepted. A friend tried with an expired NRA instructor cert, was turned down, and met a polite but non-receptive audience when she called asking they accept the expired cert. The NRA procedure was "take the instructor course over again".

I think "The MSP will accept the GOAL course" is morphing into "The MSP requires the GOAL course" when the later is not the case.
Ask Jon. I think that you'll find that just like the many police chiefs that make up rules/requirements, this is one made up by MSP. Considering how little most BFS instructors actually know about Mass gun laws, I'm not surprised that MSP added this "requirement".
The MSP is enforcing the "must be a trained instructor" at renewal time as well as initial application. The requirement fabricated out of imaginary cloth is requiring the instruct to hold a currently valid MA LTC.
 
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The requirement fabricated out of imaginary cloth is requiring the instruct to hold a currently valid MA LTC.

Wow... I've been hearing (and repeating!) this for 10 years! (but never looked up, because it seemed so plausible/likely.)
 
Not unless something has changed since I received the same notice at renewal time.

I have been coughing up the modest tribute to the NRA to keep my NRA Instructor certification up2date and that was accepted. A friend tried with an expired NRA instructor cert, was turned down, and met a polite but non-receptive audience when she called asking they accept the expired cert. The NRA procedure was "take the instructor course over again".

I think "The MSP will accept the GOAL course" is morphing into "The MSP requires the GOAL course" when the later is not the case.

The MSP is enforcing the "must be a trained instructor" at renewal time as well as initial application. The requirement fabricated out of imaginary cloth is requiring the instruct to hold a currently valid MA LTC.
Any course offered by Jon Green is well worth taking!

That said, it indeed looks like the only acceptable "re-training" course is the one offered by GOAL and if so, that is a legal problem. The lack of response to my Email asking about alternatives definitely points to that.

MSP can make changes and demand anything they want. They can do it formally with a CMR change (it's been rumored for years) or informally like what seems to have been done here.

In any case, all BFS instructors should have been informed. Instead we had someone drop a bombshell in NES after attending one of these refresher courses given by Jon. But again, the State/MSP/FRB/EOPS/AG can do anything they want and the answer is "so sue me" . . . which will take years in our Marsupial court system (and we'd probably lose because "gunz") and cost thousands or tens of thousands to challenge them . . . and don't think that they don't know that (plus the taxpayers pay for their legal team).
 
The governing statute is G. L. ch. 140, section 131P(b). The language on point is this:

"Firearms safety instructors shall be any person certified by a nationally recognized organization that fosters safety in firearms, or any other person in the discretion of said colonel, to be competent to give instruction in a basic firearms safety course."

As I read this, the Colonel has discretion to define the course curricula for qualifying courses, and the discretion to certify as instructors persons who are not "certified by a nationally recognized organization that fosters safety in firearms . . . to be competent to give instruction in a basic firearms safety course," but the statute does not by its terms appear to confer discretion to deny instructor certification to those who hold current NRA CFI credentials.
 
That said, it indeed looks like the only acceptable "re-training" course is the one offered by GOAL and if so, that is a legal problem.
There is a difference between "currently certified by a nationally recognized org....." and "retrained since last issuance of a MA instructor's certificate". Both are accepted by the MSP for renewal.
 
Ask Jon. I think that you'll find that just like the many police chiefs that make up rules/requirements, this is one made up by MSP. Considering how little most BFS instructors actually know about Mass gun laws, I'm not surprised that MSP added this "requirement".

I took the class today and spoke with Jon. He said that this class is not required to recertify as a BFS instructor by the State.
 
Copy and pasted from another thread. I hope it clears things up a bit:

This course is not a requirement to renew your credentials. GOAL was asked by several members to bring back the BFS Law Primer that was first created in 2008, to apprise certified instructors of their obligations to their students, the NRA, state law and regulation. LT. Al Zani attended one of our MA Gun Law for Citizens class and was highly impressed. Lt. Zani and Administrator Krisitn Ryan were asked to contribute to the new BFS Law Primer. Lt. Zani is requiring all MSP BFS Instructors to show some type of continuing education in order to renew the credentials. The BFS Primer is one option. I recommend contacting Al Zani for other classes, seminars and options.
Kristin Ryan asked that course reports be sent in within 30 days as some issuing authorities are verifying the authenticity of the BFS certificates.
Our 1st BFS Primer was held at Shawme a few weeks ago. The feedback has been 100% positive even from the retired officers that bitched the most about having to take a course in order to renew their creds. This 4hr seminar includes a review of the training laws/regs, best practices for suicide prevention, the applicable laws for possession, transport and storage. All attendees receive applicable hard copies and a flash drive with writable certificates, forms, videos and other cool info. Cost is $20 for GOAL members and $60 for non-members.
 
I took the class today and spoke with Jon. He said that this class is not required to recertify as a BFS instructor by the State.
I got the opposite impression from talking to Jon a week ago. Maybe someone with "juice" changed MSP's mind on this issue?
 
I got the opposite impression from talking to Jon a week ago. Maybe someone with "juice" changed MSP's mind on this issue?
I think it was just a failure to communicate. My BFS cert was issued on day one (#007). I renewed immediately when I got the notice in the mail and included a copy of my current NRA instructor cert. The renewal went through smoothly, though nobody told me the renewal was sent via email and it was stuck in my spam filter while I wondered what was taking them so long.
 
I think it was just a failure to communicate. My BFS cert was issued on day one (#007). I renewed immediately when I got the notice in the mail and included a copy of my current NRA instructor cert. The renewal went through smoothly, though nobody told me the renewal was sent via email and it was stuck in my spam filter while I wondered what was taking them so long.

Did you renew online, or did you mail them a paper form and a check? It's been two weeks since I sent them my renewal stuff and they haven't cashed the check yet, and I haven't heard anything from them.
 
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