MA FA-10 completed by gun shop on stripped lowers

[bgoum]

I recently picked up a couple of stripped lowers from one gun shop and a couple more from a different shop.

Shop 1:
The first shop, did no paperwork (other than the NICS) and said when the build is complete to bring it in and they can register it, or go to the MA portal and do it myself.
This is the process that I was familiar with based upon what I have read.

Shop 2:
The second shop did the NICS as well but also did the MA FA-10's. I was puzzled about this and their reply was "We have to - MA makes us".

Does anyone know if this is simply a cover your a$$ thing by the dealer? If so, I get it.
I'm guessing the two that had the FA-10's done are all set with the state now and I would NOT have to go to the portal when the build is complete as they are already "registered"?

 

[LuvDog]

I'd avoid that second shop for future lowers.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Shop 2 is slinging bullshit.

CJIS a few times told dealers NOT to register incomplete guns. MGL doesn't call it a gun until you have all the parts needed such that it is ready to shoot.

Don't shop for frames/lowers at Shop #2 any more. You'll never convince them to do it correctly.

 

[bgoum]

You have confirmed what I thought. Shop 2 is a much smaller shop but they had the lowers in stock when others were out. First and last time shopping there.
Thanks very much!

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Shop 2 is slinging bullshit.

CJIS a few times told dealers NOT to register incomplete guns. MGL doesn't call it a gun until you have all the parts needed such that it is ready to shoot.

Don't shop for frames/lowers at Shop #2 any more. You'll never convince them to do it correctly.

Just more dumb shit added to the data base. Maybe that's a good thing. Jack.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Read those FA 10s. What kind of gun did they "invent"? Caliber, barrel length, model? Jack.

 

[namedpipes]

Since your stripped lower IS FA-10'd, do you have to FA-10 it again when the build is completed?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Shop 2 is slinging bullshit.

CJIS a few times told dealers NOT to register incomplete guns. MGL doesn't call it a gun until you have all the parts needed such that it is ready to shoot.

Don't shop for frames/lowers at Shop #2 any more. You'll never convince them to do it correctly.t

The problem is that, as far as I know, the CJIS has only told dealers this verbally (although they are very consistent in their position an FA10 is not necessary).

Some dealers are nervous because of the lack of an official printed ruling stating lowers do not need an FA10. In fact, they don't even require an FID or LTC for purchase, but even the dealers that follow procedure and don't require an FA10 tend to impose their own, extra-legal, "LTC required for a lower for a high cap weapon". (Yes, I used the term weapon).

 

[5months]

Just more dumb shit added to the data base. Maybe that's a good thing. Jack.

I was caught by surprise too when my first stripped lower purchase was FA-10'd at the store. Now I'll ask up front and won't buy a lower at that shop or any store that the FA10's.

I'm curious, what did they enter into the FA-10 form (er, perjure themselves and you/me) for barrel length and caliber?
My AR lower is in the system as Barrel length = 0.00" and Caliber = 5.56mm though it current runs 300aac and 16". Though that changes with most every trip to the range. I have trouble chambering a round with the 0" barrel

 

[Palladin]

Read those FA 10s. What kind of gun did they "invent"? Caliber, barrel length, model? Jack.

Exactly.

Shop #2 is 4S, they did it to me on the Delaware Machinery lower group buy. Told me their atty said they had to, I asked, so what caliber am i going to build? What barrel length? tell me !!

 

[browncoat]

Since your stripped lower IS FA-10'd, do you have to FA-10 it again when the build is completed?

You probably should, just to mess with their databases. It would be legal for you to do so, since you will be building a firearm that has not yet been FA-10ed to you (because the first time was an improper FA-10).

 

[Len-2A Training]

Since your stripped lower IS FA-10'd, do you have to FA-10 it again when the build is completed?

I wouldn't bother in that case.

 

[milktree]

In fact, they don't even require an FID or LTC for purchase, but even the dealers that follow procedure and don't require an FA10 tend to impose their own, extra-legal, "LTC required for a lower for a high cap weapon". (Yes, I used the term weapon).

Doesn't Federal law require that dealers confirm that a transferee is legally allowed to possess a firearm? If so, are you saying that under MA law it's completely legal for someone without either an FID or LTC to possess a 1911 frame or stripped AR lower?

I'd be shocked if someone without either was caught with one wasn't charged with a ton of "possession without a licence" charges.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

The dealer does the 4473 and NICS check for the frame. Jack.

 

[bgoum]

Read those FA 10s. What kind of gun did they "invent"? Caliber, barrel length, model? Jack.

Make: Other
Anderson Manufacturing AM-15

Caliber: Multi Caliber
Barrel Length: 16"
Lg Capacity: Yes
Surface Finish: Black

 

[bgoum]

Doesn't Federal law require that dealers confirm that a transferee is legally allowed to possess a firearm? If so, are you saying that under MA law it's completely legal for someone without either an FID or LTC to possess a 1911 frame or stripped AR lower?

I'd be shocked if someone without either was caught with one wasn't charged with a ton of "possession without a licence" charges.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure MA doesn't consider anything (at least an AR Lower) an actual firearm until it can fire a round.
It is the Feds/ATF that consider the lower a firearm.

 

[Palladin]

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure MA doesn't consider anything (at least an AR Lower) an actual firearm until it can fire a round.
It is the Feds/ATF that consider the lower a firearm.

correct, which is why a FA10 wasn't necessary at the time of purchase.

 

[drgrant]

The problem is that, as far as I know, the CJIS has only told dealers this verbally (although they are very consistent in their position an FA10 is not necessary).

Some dealers are nervous because of the lack of an official printed ruling stating lowers do not need an FA10. In fact, they don't even require an FID or LTC for purchase, but even the dealers that follow procedure and don't require an FA10 tend to impose their own, extra-legal, "LTC required for a lower for a high cap weapon". (Yes, I used the term weapon).

I don't know if it's extra legal. It's probably more like the ATF says "If you sell someone a lower without checking for an LTC we will pull your license". The feds probably consider unwashed to be inelegible to own firearms in MA, despite the obvious conflict of differences in the legal definitions of a firearm.

-Mike

 

[Glockster30]

Exactly.

Shop #2 is 4S, they did it to me on the Delaware Machinery lower group buy. Told me their atty said they had to, I asked, so what caliber am i going to build? What barrel length? tell me !!

Yes, 4S did it to a friend and me when we purchased two lowers each several years ago. It was Carl that did the transaction, and we questioned him, but we didn't complain because Carl has given us many good deals over the years.

 

[bgoum]

Exactly.

Shop #2 is 4S, they did it to me on the Delaware Machinery lower group buy. Told me their atty said they had to, I asked, so what caliber am i going to build? What barrel length? tell me !!

In my case shop 2 was not 4S but a much smaller volume dealer on the north shore. I posted what they listed on my FA10 in this thread.

 

[UNKUSR]

Question answered

 

[noxin]

Correct me if I'm wrong.
So you can buy a lower FTF without doing a FA-10 as long as it was never registered as a "rifle".

Technically, you can purchase a stripped lower FTF without an LTC as it's not a firearm according to Massachusetts, as long as it was never made into a firearm.

*Whoops* I didn't read the entire thread, Rob Boudrie already mentioned the LTC non-requirement.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Doesn't Federal law require that dealers confirm that a transferee is legally allowed to possess a firearm? If so, are you saying that under MA law it's completely legal for someone without either an FID or LTC to possess a 1911 frame or stripped AR lower?

I'd be shocked if someone without either was caught with one wasn't charged with a ton of "possession without a licence" charges.

Yes, it is indeed legal for someone without an LTC or FID to possess a striped frame or lower, provided there is no federal prohibition (felon, illegal alien, etc.). Concurrent possession of the other parts, however, would likely render possession of the stripped frame/lower less than legal.

 

[Kicker96FS]

The fact that he had stock when everyone else was out should have been a red flag.

 

[Crotchrocket]

I was caught by surprise too when my first stripped lower purchase was FA-10'd at the store. Now I'll ask up front and won't buy a lower at that shop or any store that the FA10's.

I'm curious, what did they enter into the FA-10 form (er, perjure themselves and you/me) for barrel length and caliber?
My AR lower is in the system as Barrel length = 0.00" and Caliber = 5.56mm though it current runs 300aac and 16". Though that changes with most every trip to the range. I have trouble chambering a round with the 0" barrel

so according to your MA FA10 you have a SBR?

 

[Crotchrocket]

I just realized something and maybe I'm a bit slow here, but I was previously thinking there's no way to get an AR pistol in MA because it's not on the roster, but you should be able to build one as long as it's not in violation of the assault weapons ban rules. Now if it is registered from your dealer FA10 as a rifle then you may be in trouble? But if it was never a rifle you should be good right? with no need for a SBR tax stamp?

 

[Stryker]

I just realized something and maybe I'm a bit slow here, but I was previously thinking there's no way to get an AR pistol in MA because it's not on the roster, but you should be able to build one as long as it's not in violation of the assault weapons ban rules. Now if it is registered from your dealer FA10 as a rifle then you may be in trouble? But if it was never a rifle you should be good right? with no need for a SBR tax stamp?

Correct me if I am wrong but AR Pistols in MA don't work because of the weight limit requirements of pistols i.e. AR pistols are too heavy

 

[noxin]

Correct me if I am wrong but AR Pistols in MA don't work because of the weight limit requirements of pistols i.e. AR pistols are too heavy

It's quickly becoming possible to get under weight due to skeletonized uppers and lowers, lightweight bcgs, etc, etc

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[warwickben]

Correct me if I am wrong but AR Pistols in MA don't work because of the weight limit requirements of pistols i.e. AR pistols are too heavy

That was awb legal .

There are some ways to get under the weight . Also there is a ar15 lower that you can buy with a 10 rd mag built in. So to reload you need to open it up . There's a few ways to make them . But your stuck with some thing you don't really want .

 

[bfm]

Minuteman Armament does just the federal paperwork and has some of the lowest prices you will see.

I have been quite happy with them.