MA exemption to 10 round capacity limit

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[EDIT AFTER DELETING ORIGINAL POST]

I am interested in finding a 1911 style gun for use in USPSA Limited in 40SW for which I can find preban magazines. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks.

(this post needs to be moved after my edit.... Moderator, can you please move this?)
 
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First, you can own preban mags of more than 10rds. The MA ban grandfathered all pre-existing mags when the ban was passed.

Second, anyone traveling from out of state into MA to compete in a shooting event is exempted from the ban by federal law in order to attend competition.

So those are the two legal ways to own and use normal capacity mags in MA. Of course, I wouldn't doubt that many people simply don't care/don't know and just have new mags that are actually illegal.

Example, you can own a Gen 1 Glock G17 and the normal U notch 17rd mags it came with.
 
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If I were you, I would edit your post and just ask what pistols, legal by USPSA rule for use in Limited, have available pre-ban "high capacity" mags. No one likes a blue falcon. A pistol suggestion for you? A Glock 22 with some 15 round pre-ban mags.
 
If I were you, I would edit your post and just ask what pistols, legal by USPSA rule for use in Limited, have available pre-ban "high capacity" mags. No one likes a blue falcon. A pistol suggestion for you? A Glock 22 with some 15 round pre-ban mags.

I get it. I just assumed there was some competition/target gun exemption or something.
 
A 1911 .40 cal for Limited or Limited 10??

That's going to be a tough mag to find if not impossible. Even the current .40 1911 mags made by Tripp and Metalform are all 10 rounders. I've yet to see any "high cap" .40 1911 mags...

I think there is a competition exemption but not sure. I think most guys just don't care (neither would I).

With my limited USPSA knowledge/experience, seems like you'd be better off getting a 2011 in .40 for Limited if you like the 1911 platform. Not identical of course but it's close.
 
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A 1911 .40 cal for Limited or Limited 10??

That's going to be a tough mag to find if not impossible. Even the current .40 1911 mags made by Tripp and Metalform are all 10 rounders. I've yet to see any "high cap" .40 1911 mags...

All the guys that shoot Limited and Open in USPSA are using new (postban) large capacity mags. I think there is a competition exemption but not sure. I think most guys just don't care (neither would I).

With my limited USPSA knowledge/experience, seems like you'd be better off getting a 2011 in .40 for Limited if you like the 1911 platform. Not identical of course but it's close.

Thanks for the info. I guess I just assumed, going into my first USPSA competition, that most people would be shooting Limited-10 because of the laws. It never really entered my mind that people would just disregard it. Im looking into a Para Pro Comp 16.40 for my next purchase. The STIs are nice but I saw quit a few shooters have feeding issues yesterday with them (not to mention they're much more expensive than the Para).
 
Second, anyone traveling from out of state into MA to compete in a shooting event is exempted from the ban by federal law in order to attend competition.

You should learn the law before you post such nonsense, as there is a risk someone will take you seriously.

1. The federal exemption (FOPA 86) is for continuous and uninterrupted travel THROUGH prohibited jurisdictions provided you are legal in the starting and finishing jurisdiction and the gun is cased and inaccessible during travel.

2. There is NOTHING in the federal law referencing competition.

3. The FOPA exemption does NOT apply to traveling TO a prohibited juristidiction

4. The MA competition exemption (which some consider invalid because of the requirement you have a permit from a state, district or territory that does not issue to anyone with a drug conviction) does not, under any reasonable interpretation, exempt post ban magazines by non-special people (MA licensed dealers, LEO, persons with diplomatic immunity)
I guess I just assumed, going into my first USPSA competition, that most people would be shooting Limited-10 because of the laws.
Not many people in Limited 10, but plenty if Production (which also has a 10 round limit)
So those are the two legal ways to own and use normal capacity mags in MA
Another is to have a MA firearms dealers license. (FFL alone does not trigger the exemption)
 
Chapter 140, Section 131G

Any person who is not a resident of the Commonwealth may carry a pistol or revolver in or through the commonwealth for the following purpose of taking part in a pistol or revolver competition or attending any meeting or exhibition of any organized group of firearms collectors or hunting; provided, however, that such a person is a resident of the United States, and has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony or who have been convicted of the unlawful use, possession or sale of narcotic or harmful drugs; provided, further, that in the case of a person traveling in or through the commonwealth or by the state of his destination.

Nowhere in there does it say you need a MA permit making the destination not prohibited, therefore covered under FOPA. The MA law makes the destination lawful. Assuming of course you have a permit from your state meeting the criteria.
 
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Nowhere in there does it say you need a MA permit making the destination not prohibited, therefore covered under FOPA. The MA law makes the destination lawful.

You stated that:

Second, anyone traveling from out of state into MA to compete in a shooting event is exempted from the ban by federal law in order to attend competition.

1. You stated "by federal law" and then cited a MA law to justify that statement. Please provide a cite to federal law that contains the exemption of which you speak (I'll save you some time, there isn't one)

2. There is nothing in the MA law you cite that exempts someone from the magazine ban because they are visiting for a competition.

When discussing the law, it is important to deal in precision.
 
Nowhere in there does it say you need a MA permit making the destination not prohibited, therefore covered under FOPA. The MA law makes the destination lawful. Assuming of course you have a permit from your state meeting the criteria.

Rob is right, and there is a lot of bad info by others in this thread.
 
18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
(Added Pub. L. 99–360, § 1(a), July 8, 1986, 100 Stat. 766.)

FOPA clearly covers travel from a legal location, to a legal location. MA law quoted above makes a competition a legal location, thus FOPA applies. If you have a case refuting this please post it.
 
Seems the MA law above (Chapter 140, Section 131G) may cover the handgun itself for the competition, but would not cover the mags > 10rnds (unless they're pre-ban)?
 
There's a pretty simple follow up question to claiming this is not the case.

If it were illegal to bring these firearms into the state per your position, why have anti-gun towns/PDs not simply parked officers at competitions and arrested everyone who drives up to the gate? Certainly reasonable suspicion would apply and searches could be legally made for firearms in vehicles entering a gun range.
 
You are correct that FOPA covers travel to MA when starting form a legal destination.

My point was that FOPA does nothing to establish the legality in MA. The MA exemption may do that. I say "may" because of the varying opinions regarding the drug conviction clause.

More importantly, however, you have incorrectly stated "exempted from the ban". There is no way to polish that turd - you posted information which is absolutely, totally, and objectively false.
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Certainly reasonable suspicion would apply and searches could be legally made for firearms in vehicles entering a gun range.
See Commonwealth v. Couture. The mere carrying of a gun in public does not give any legal cause to believe the person is doing something illegal, much less provide justification for a search.
 
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Seems the MA law above (Chapter 140, Section 131G) may cover the handgun itself for the competition, but would not cover the mags > 10rnds (unless they're pre-ban)?

Again, if that were the case cops would be arresting people at competitions by the dozens. You think your benevolent AG wouldn't drool at the opportunity to have literal buses full of gun criminals arrested in a single day?
 
There's a pretty simple follow up question to claiming this is not the case.

If it were illegal to bring these firearms into the state per your position, why have anti-gun towns/PDs not [narc talk]

Would you just stop, please? Do you have to be that guy? Do you even compete?
 
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You are correct that FOPA covers travel to MA when starting form a legal destination.

My point was that FOPA does nothing to establish the legality in MA. The MA exemption may do that. I say "may" because of the varying opinions regarding the drug conviction clause.

More importantly, however, you have incorrectly stated "exempted from the ban". There is no way to polish that turd - you posted information which is absolutely, totally, and objectively false.

See Commonwealth v. Couture. The mere carrying of a gun in public does not give any legal cause to believe the person is doing something illegal, much less provide justification for a search.

That is true for a person walking around, but if you're driving to an event at the gate in a car with an out of state plate and the person it's registered to doesn't have an LTC listed, it certainly would break the barrier for a lawful stop.

We're talking about the AG that unilaterally reinterpreted the AWB here.

- - - Updated - - -

Would you just stop, please? Do you have to be that guy? Do you even compete?

Do you even bother to address relevant questions, instead of questioning someone's ability to read?

Also "That guy"? Last I checked this is a forum where discussions and debates take place. Try participating and contributing rather than attacking.
 
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Again, if that were the case cops would be arresting people at competitions by the dozens. You think your benevolent AG wouldn't drool at the opportunity to have literal buses full of gun criminals arrested in a single day
The lack of enforcement action is not a legal argument.
That is true for a person walking around, but if you're driving to an event at the gate in a car with an out of state plate and the person it's registered to doesn't have an LTC listed, it certainly would break the barrier for a lawful stop.
Really? That is evidence the person is not an LEO, driving a spouse's car, or a spectator?
 
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The lack of enforcement action is not a legal argument.

I agree, but neither is it a supporting point of your argument.

I'm trying to have a direct conversation here regarding the law as written and what cases have actually been brought forth. Are you saying that someone carrying say a Gen 4 G34 to a competition is breaking the law? Omitting the magazine discussion for a moment.
 
I agree, but neither is it a supporting point of your argument.

I'm trying to have a direct conversation here regarding the law as written and what cases have actually been brought forth. Are you saying that someone carrying say a Gen 4 G34 to a competition is breaking the law? Omitting the magazine discussion for a moment.

No, that would not be breaking the law, assuming the requirements of the competition exemption apply. The person is not a "purveyor of firearms" who sold that G34, nor is the person a "purveyor of firearms" who committed an unfair and deceptive trade practice under the AG's CMR. There is no "banned handgun list" in MA; just restrictions (both criminal and civil) on what handguns a licensed dealer may sell.

A person buying a G34 from a licensed dealer in MA is not a "violator" or a "criminal", but rather a "victim of an unfair and deceptive trade practice."

You seem to think you know a lot, but are demonstrating a lack of grasp of some of the basics. You may wish to consider investing in the Len S law course.
 
No, that would not be breaking the law, assuming the requirements of the competition exemption apply. The person is not a "purveyor of firearms" who sold that G34, nor is the person a "purveyor of firearms" who committed an unfair and deceptive trade practice under the AG's CMR. There is no "banned handgun list" in MA; just restrictions (both criminal and civil) on what handguns a licensed dealer may sell.

You seem to think you know a lot, but are concurrently demonstrating a lack of grasp of some of the basics. You may wish to consider investing in the Len S law course.

I asked what you thought, not what I believe. You're not reading what I wrote, you're implying what you think.

I have clearly stated in other threads numerous times I know you can have a Gen 4 G34 in MA. I was trying to get a clearer picture of how you personally were approaching this topic.

Moving back to the mag specifically. Are you saying having a 11 or more round mag at a competition in MA is illegal if you are an out of state resident with no LTC and the mag is not preban.
 
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Are you saying having a 11 or more round mag at a competition in MA is illegal if you are an out of state resident with no LTC and the mag is not preban.
Yes, assuming the mag is post ban, unless you are LEO or hold a MA firearms dealer license.

Since you used the term "exempted from the ban", I assume we are discussing post-ban magazines.

In fact, the issue of > 10 round pre-ban mags for persons under the competitive exemption is unresolved. There was a case where the court held that the 60 day new resident exemption for possession did not cover > 10 round mags (preban) as the legislature did not specifically include that in the exemption but could have. There has been no formal adjudication of the matter that I know of, hence "unresolved". If the court applied the same logic to the competition exemption (which is likely, since courts look to previous similar decisions for guidance) the exemption would not cover such mags.
 
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Yes, assuming the mag is post ban, unless you are LEO or hold a MA firearms dealer license.

Since you used the term "exempted from the ban", I assume we are discussing post-ban magazines.

In fact, the issue of > 10 round pre-ban mags for persons under the competitive exemption is unresolved. There was a case where the court held that the 60 day new resident exemption for possession did not cover > 10 round mags (preban) as the legislature did not specifically include that in the exemption but could have. There has been no formal adjudication of the matter that I know of, hence "unresolved". If the court applied the same logic to the competition exemption (which is likely, since courts look to previous similar decisions for guidance) the exemption would not cover such mags.

The first point you make is my fault for not being clear. I was in fact referring to MA possession laws and my comment was clearly misleading. I apologize for that confusion. ''

That's interesting on the 60 day. Was this something that arose at a competition, or just a possession case? Can you post the case for me to look at? Did they just plea out/dismiss the charge?

If there is not a coverage for the post ban magazines included with the competition exemption, what is your personal feeling/explanation for no one ever being charged? Given the veracity of some PDs in MA and the shall we say liberal application of other laws when they sometimes do not apply but jam people up anyway, how would one acknowledge prebans being used in the majority of competitions where such a mag might be used has not resulted in some form of enforcement occurring? Again I'm asking for an opinion of the matter.

In a state where anti is a way of life, it's hard to believe the police and AG would have never made an arrest if they believe the mags to be illegal at competition.
 
[EDIT AFTER DELETING ORIGINAL POST]

I am interested in finding a 1911 style gun for use in USPSA Limited in 40SW for which I can find preban magazines. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks.

(this post needs to be moved after my edit.... Moderator, can you please move this?)

A 1911 style with over 10 round capacity is usually referred to as a 2011. These feed from a double column magazine, usually holding 20 rounds of 40, and are a favorite in USPSA limited division. Look at models made by SVI, STI. Very similar, but not fully interchangable are Para or Caspian 'wide body' pistols. New models from several manufacturers are available from MA dealers and are on the 'formal target list'. If looking for used browse the Brian Enos forum classifieds.
 
FOPA clearly covers travel from a legal location, to a legal location. MA law quoted above makes a competition a legal location, thus FOPA applies. If you have a case refuting this please post it.

The guida interpretation of the MA comp exemption makes it completely null/ invalid. No test cases yet, though. Doubt there ever will be, either. [laugh] most of the uspsa folks i know play by big kid rules anyways... nobody actually worries about this crap other than protecting themselves from the obvious problems. (Eg safe storage bs, other 4A precautions, etc.)
 
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Thanks for the info. I guess I just assumed, going into my first USPSA competition, that most people would be shooting Limited-10 because of the laws. It never really entered my mind that people would just disregard it. Im looking into a Para Pro Comp 16.40 for my next purchase. The STIs are nice but I saw quit a few shooters have feeding issues yesterday with them (not to mention they're much more expensive than the Para).

I think some people you shot with might be LEO and can have post ban high caps (standard mags). And some might have pre bans. Some people might take a risk...

That said, after having a para ordnance once in my life, get something else! Anything else! Even an STI with issues is better than a Para...
 
The guida interpretation of the MA comp exemption makes it completely null/ invalid. No test cases yet, though. Doubt there ever will be, either. [laugh] most of the uspsa folks i know play by big kid rules anyways... nobody actually worries about this crap other than protecting themselves from the obvious problems. (Eg safe storage bs, other 4A precautions, etc.)

Is there a text of this?
 
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