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MA Compliance for AR-15

JCat

JCat

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Oct 27, 2011
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Bedford, MA
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So I've searched and read and feel like I understand a lot of basics, but I wanted to try and find out more about what the best options are currently. I guess specifically I am interested in reversible options because I will probably be moving out of MA in the not too distant future.

It seems like for the bayonet lug, most people just say screw it and grind/cut it off. Is there any reasonable alternative to this that is reversible? I guess I've seen people talk about putting a spot weld on the lug in a way that will not allow a bayonet to be placed on it. Is this truly MA compliant?

For a collapsible stock, pinning it actually seems pretty easy, with the only drawback being aesthetic. After it is drilled/pinned into the receiver extension, does it need any kind of weld over the pin? Any other options here? Besides a fixed stock obviously.

It seems like the hardest part (and perhaps least reversible) is permanently attaching a muzzle brake. My understanding is basically that it comes down to pinning/welding, or the silver solder thing. Are there any alternatives? With pinning/welding, does this damage the threads enough that a different muzzle brake couldn't be put on at a later time? How much would it cost to have someone do one of these options for me, if I feel like I'm not up to doing it myself?

Thanks for any help...and happy new year...
 
1) Are you ever gonna put a bayonet on your AR? If not grind it off. If you leave and you want to mount a bayonet buy a new front sight and install it. It's not difficult. The worst command an infantryman can hear is "Fix Bayonets!" Things are in the crapper at that point.

2)No weld needed over the pin in the stock

3)Have it soldered by a gunsmith. It's small money and can be undone after you leave MA.
 
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FreeWillie said:
1) Are you ever gonna put a bayonet on your AR? If not grind it off. If you leave and you want to mount a bayonet buy a new front sight and install it. It's not difficult. The worst command an infantryman can hear is "Fix Bayonets!" Things are in the crapper at that point.

2)No weld needed over the pin in the stock

3)Have it soldered by a gunsmith. It's small money and can be undone after you leave MA.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. Regarding the soldering, what is a reasonable amount to pay?

One more question - at what point is someone violating the law in regards to these issues. Right now I have a complete upper with the 'evil' features but have yet to pick up my lower receiver. Am I in violation once I have all the parts together necessary to build the rifle, or not until it is actually built? I'm assuming the former...

Thanks again.
 
JCat said:
So I've searched and read and feel like I understand a lot of basics, but I wanted to try and find out more about what the best options are currently. I guess specifically I am interested in reversible options because I will probably be moving out of MA in the not too distant future.

It seems like for the bayonet lug, most people just say screw it and grind/cut it off. Is there any reasonable alternative to this that is reversible? I guess I've seen people talk about putting a spot weld on the lug in a way that will not allow a bayonet to be placed on it. Is this truly MA compliant?

For a collapsible stock, pinning it actually seems pretty easy, with the only drawback being aesthetic. After it is drilled/pinned into the receiver extension, does it need any kind of weld over the pin? Any other options here? Besides a fixed stock obviously.

It seems like the hardest part (and perhaps least reversible) is permanently attaching a muzzle brake. My understanding is basically that it comes down to pinning/welding, or the silver solder thing. Are there any alternatives? With pinning/welding, does this damage the threads enough that a different muzzle brake couldn't be put on at a later time? How much would it cost to have someone do one of these options for me, if I feel like I'm not up to doing it myself?

Thanks for any help...and happy new year...
Click to expand...

There are plenty of threads about this stuff,
Quick and short

Bayonet lug, either cut it all off, or grind down the ears on the sides. Not reversible unless you replace the sight tower. I don't like the spot weld idea.

Stock, drill a hole, insert a roll pin, done, no welding required. This can be done on pretty much any manufacturer and model of stock, search for the specific one you want. There are several nice fixed stocks available also.

Muzzle brake, pin & weld or silver solder are the only know approved methods that will stand up to any questions. If done correctly, a pin and weld can be removed, but it's not the easiest thing. You definitely wont wont to change your mind on your muzzle brake. Cost? keep searching, I don't know specifics right now, but many places will do it for you for less than an hours labor rate.

Dig deep in the older posts here, tons of great information. Hours of good reading
 
JCat said:
Thanks for the response. Regarding the soldering, what is a reasonable amount to pay?

One more question - at what point is someone violating the law in regards to these issues. Right now I have a complete upper with the 'evil' features but have yet to pick up my lower receiver. Am I in violation once I have all the parts together necessary to build the rifle, or not until it is actually built? I'm assuming the former...

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

The upper is not a gun. You can even have an upper shipped directly to your house.

Disclaimer: IANAL

If you take possession of an "evil" upper and have a lower, you're in trouble. If you have no lower then you're OK. Take possession of the upper have it modified to meet MA regs. Once done go get your lower and you are GTG. Good luck on your build! PICS would be nice when you're through [grin]
 
JCat said:
So I've searched and read and feel like I understand a lot of basics, but I wanted to try and find out more about what the best options are currently. I guess specifically I am interested in reversible options because I will probably be moving out of MA in the not too distant future.

It seems like for the bayonet lug, most people just say screw it and grind/cut it off. Is there any reasonable alternative to this that is reversible? I guess I've seen people talk about putting a spot weld on the lug in a way that will not allow a bayonet to be placed on it. Is this truly MA compliant?

For a collapsible stock, pinning it actually seems pretty easy, with the only drawback being aesthetic. After it is drilled/pinned into the receiver extension, does it need any kind of weld over the pin? Any other options here? Besides a fixed stock obviously.

It seems like the hardest part (and perhaps least reversible) is permanently attaching a muzzle brake. My understanding is basically that it comes down to pinning/welding, or the silver solder thing. Are there any alternatives? With pinning/welding, does this damage the threads enough that a different muzzle brake couldn't be put on at a later time? How much would it cost to have someone do one of these options for me, if I feel like I'm not up to doing it myself?

Thanks for any help...and happy new year...
Click to expand...

Your questions don't make a lot of sense to me. If you are trying to figure out what to do with illegal options in Mass, then you already broke the law. You cannot buy a gun with those options in Mass unless it is a preban gun, If it's a preban gun, then it is legal, there would be no need to disable, cut, weld or pin anything. If you would like those options, buy a preban AR15..

Opps, just saw your second post...... buy a preban lower and keep all your illegal and evil options... [grin]
 
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JCat said:
I would if I could find one for a reasonable price...seems like they are all at least 700 dollars by now...am I wrong?
Click to expand...

you are correct, but that's what it cost... what kind of upper exaqctly do you have? Were you trying to put something together cheaply? Did you already purchase a collapsible stock?
 
turbo38gn said:
Your questions don't make a lot of sense to me. If you are trying to figure out what to do with illegal options in Mass, then you already broke the law. You cannot buy a gun with those options in Mass unless it is a preban gun, If it's a preban gun, then it is legal, there would be no need to disable, cut, weld or pin anything. If you would like those options, buy a preban AR15..

Opps, just saw your second post...... buy a preban lower and keep all your illegal and evil options... [grin]
Click to expand...


You can have an upper with ALL of the evil features in MA without breaking any laws. But if he owns a post-ban lower then he has problems. He specifically said he did not have a lower. The upper is just "parts" made out of metal and are perfectly legal to own. BUT the second he takes possession of a post-ban lower and has in his possession an "evil" upper, he's violated the MA AWB.
 
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JCat said:
Sorry to sound stupid...is there a forum section for that or something?

And just to confirm, this is MA legal, correct? - http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=9
Click to expand...

All of the FSC Series muzzle devices have been classified as a non-flash suppressing device by the BATFE, thus removing any restriction from assault weapon ban states or provinces. See the BATFE document here.
Click to expand...

Legal

I believe it's the Dealers forum you want to inquire in.
 
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Mass compliant guns can involve a lot of choices. Buy a preban, or go the compliant build route. My experience with compliant builds:

(1) Get a good muzzle brake. Don't mess around with cheap stuff, cause changing it is expensive. I suggest a Battlecomp 1.0 or a PWS FSC556.

(2) Have the brake pinned (much less of a PIA than silver solder) and the bayonet mount removed.

(3) Buy a lower and a lower parts kit (preferably a good one, such as Colt, Daniel Defense, or G&R) and install it. Basic tools will do (for most tasks) and instructions are at:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/22...__GAS_BLOCK___Step_by_step_instructions_.html

Tricky parts are the front/pivot pin detent, the bolt catch roll pin, and the trigger guard roll pin. You will need punches for the pins.

(4) If you want a fixed stock, get the parts (rifle length receiver extension/buffer tube, rifle buffer, rifle spring) and install them. You will need a vise and magazine well vise block to do this correctly. An armorer's tool (~25) and torque wrench are highly recommended. Now for the stock.

(5) Unless you are a gorilla, avoid the A2 stocks (10 5/8"). Get an A1 length stock (10") and install it over the tube. Some choices:

(a) Cav Arms: There are better options, but they make A1 stocks.
(b) Enhanced fixed stock (EFX-A1): You can buy these individually (screw included), or, Stag Arms has a kit with the tube, buffer, spring, stock, and stock screw.
(c) Numrich: Cheap take-offs from military carbines. Some are pretty beat up. Get the A1 trap door model (they are less abused, ~$20) and A1 screw (sold separately). Lightly sand the sucker and apply shoe polish. It will look pretty good when you are done.
(d) ACE Skeleton stock: 10" model. I don't like 'em, but ...

Choices involving pinned collapsibles are very numerous and beyond this quick discussion. There are quite a few styles and some can get very pricey. You can always swap out your fixed stock for another later.

Who can do the work? If you are not going to do a collapsible, then only the upper needs work. I know that Zero Hour can do this (pinned brake and ground off bayonet mount). ADCO (an outfit in Ohio) is probably the best shop in the nation for this type of service, but their prices have gone up quite a bit. (Google ADCO and look at "Shop Services".) Their surcharge for PWS brakes is outrageous. If you want to pin a Battlecomp, use ADCO; if you want to pin a PWS, use Zero Hour.

Those are the basics. If you have any questions, shoot me a message or reply here.
 
FreeWillie said:
You can have an upper with ALL of the evil features in MA without breaking any laws. But if he owns a post-ban lower then he has problems. He specifically said he did not have a lower. The upper is just "parts" made out of metal and are perfectly legal to own. BUT the second he takes possession of a post-ban lower and has in his possession an "evil" upper, he's violated the MA AWB.
Click to expand...

I'm going to presume that the issue is having a pre-ban upper and *only* a post-ban lower. If someone also has a pre-ban lower, then a separate pre-ban upper is still okay until and unless he attaches it to the post-ban lower.

Sorry to be picky, but it's MA we're talking about.
 
Amicus said:
Who can do the work? If you are not going to do a collapsible, then only the upper needs work. I know that Zero Hour can do this (pinned brake and ground off bayonet mount). ADCO (an outfit in Ohio) is probably the best shop in the nation for this type of service, but their prices have gone up quite a bit. (Google ADCO and look at "Shop Services".) Their surcharge for PWS brakes is outrageous. If you want to pin a Battlecomp, use ADCO; if you want to pin a PWS, use Zero Hour.

Those are the basics. If you have any questions, shoot me a message or reply here.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the info. I just ordered a PWS brake and wouldn't really want to deal with shipping the upper to Ohio, so I will check out Zero Hour. You say Pinning is less of a PITA than solder, but is it reversible? I thought maybe it compromised the muzzle threads. Maybe its not a big deal as long as you're attaching a good muzzle brake anyway.

Also, is there any need to be paying Zero Hour to remove the bayonet lug? Will this somehow come out better than if I just grind/cut it off myself?
 
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JCat said:
Thanks a lot for the info. I just ordered a PWS brake and wouldn't really want to deal with shipping the upper to Ohio, so I will check out Zero Hour. You say Pinning is less of a PITA than solder, but is it reversible? I thought maybe it compromised the muzzle threads. Maybe its not a big deal as long as you're attaching a good muzzle brake anyway.

Also, is there any need to be paying Zero Hour to remove the bayonet lug? Will this somehow come out better than if I just grind/cut it off myself?
Click to expand...

Don't know where you are located, in Western Mass we have Remsport Mfg., John over there builds AR's and can do anything you may need to be legal as well as parts in stock.
 
CJKarl said:
Do you even need a muzzle brake? I have nothing on my post ban AR style Colt.
Click to expand...

You don't need one to hit a target, but a properly designed muzzle brake can enhance your shooting, help diminish or redirect flash, and protect the barrel crown.

There're an awful lot of less-than-perfect designs out there.
 
DonS said:
I'm going to presume that the issue is having a pre-ban upper and *only* a post-ban lower. If someone also has a pre-ban lower, then a separate pre-ban upper is still okay until and unless he attaches it to the post-ban lower.

Sorry to be picky, but it's MA we're talking about.
Click to expand...

If you have a pre-ban upper and lower there is no issue. It's pre-ban! Have whatever you want on it.

putting a post-ban upper (not a gun) on a pre-ban lower (The Gun) shouldn't be a problem. IANAL

Anyone want to address the post-ban upper on a pre-ban lower issue?
 
FreeWillie said:
If you have a pre-ban upper and lower there is no issue. It's pre-ban! Have whatever you want on it.

putting a post-ban upper (not a gun) on a pre-ban lower (The Gun) shouldn't be a problem. IANAL

Anyone want to address the post-ban upper on a pre-ban lower issue?
Click to expand...

You've got it mixed up......preban upper and post ban lower in the same house.

Mac
 
Zero Hour did my Fulton Armory upper a couple of years ago or so. I bought the comp from them and they silver soldered it on and then milled off the ears on the bayo lug. Rifle shoots a lot better than I can. I'm very satisfied with the results/work that they did.
 
As far as the bayonet lug, on my first gun I cut off the lug with a dremel. My second gun came with a gas block instead of the traditional front sight, so the lug wasn't an issue.

For pinning the stock, I bought a Vltor stock that has these two piece that make up the cheek rest on either side. they are removable, and I put the pin through the stock so that it would be covered by the pieces when installed.

As far as the muzzle device, the first complete upper I bought from Bushmaster had a flash hider pinned/welded in place. I had Remsport remove it and put on a MA compliant brake. They didn't have any issue removing the welded pin and it turned out really well.
 
cmacclel said:
You've got it mixed up......preban upper and post ban lower in the same house.

Mac
Click to expand...


I think you've got that backwards. The lower is the gun. The lower has to be pre-ban if you want to have the goodies on it.

EDIT

Simple solution: Buy a MA compliant gun and sell it when you move.
 
Bob P said:
I think you've got that backwards. The lower is the gun. The lower has to be pre-ban if you want to have the goodies on it.

EDIT

Simple solution: Buy a MA compliant gun and sell it when you move.
Click to expand...

The original question was what happens when you have a pre-ban upper and both a pre- and post-ban lower in the house. Does the fact that you could attach the upper to the pre-ban lower mean you're okay, or that you could attach it to the post-ban mean they *could* charge you?
 

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