MA AWB Question regarding "AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE"

[winter]

Handguns/Pistols:
(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm

Q: Is it possible to build an AR or AK pistol in MA that doesn't violate the MA AWB?

A: Maybe, but what you will end up with is usually best described as a "frankenstein hack job", manly to keep the pistol within the 50 ounce unloaded weight limit.

I am going to be making an AR-15 pistol and I want to be in compliance with MA law even though it will primarily be housed in Maine.

I understand that if it has "an ability to accept a detachable magazine" it falls under the AWB restrictions.

I know that in CA they fix magazines with magazine locks like the Raddlock AR-15 Magazine Lock to make the magazines non-detachable and thus complying with their laws. I was wondering if such a device, that requires a tool to remove the magazine, would effectively disqualify it from being an AWB pistol, under MGL. Or will I ultimately have to pin it?

I guess this goes for both pistol and rifle...

 

[Golddiggie]

Wow... That's a bit retarded (shouldn't be surprised since it is MA)... So if you leave the handguard off the upper, grabbing the mag-well instead (to steady it), would it still be kosher for MA?? You'll need a pistol buffer tube kit for it, so that it's not a NFA item (can't accept a butstock that way). Not sure if you'll be able to keep it under the 3# 2oz weight limit though.

Of course, you could probably just keep it in Maine and not worry about the MA retard laws.

 

[edhead35]

AR15 pistols are not pistols in MA, like they are in free states, they are assault weapons because the weight exceeds I believe 50 something ounces.

 

[winter]

You guys are missing the point.. it is an assault weapon IF it has a detachable magazine AND 2 or more features. I am talking about pinning/fixing the magazine, removing the first, key requirement of an AW, thus making it not an AW.

 

[drgrant]

CA law is not analogous to MA law so don't even bother comparing the two. People try to do this all the time and it's brain dead. Their ban is nothing like ours.

Problem on the ground in MA is MA law is based on old federal law that doesn't exist anymore and good luck getting an interpretation from state authorities as to what constitutes as "legal" on the margins. I'm sure BATFE has defined what a detachable magazine is though, that would be a good place to start looking, but I would bet nearly anything that a bullet button, etc, isn't going to cut it.

-Mike

 

[Golddiggie]

You guys are missing the point.. it is an assault weapon IF it has a detachable magazine AND 2 or more features. I am talking about pinning/fixing the magazine, removing the first, key requirement of an AW, thus making it not an AW.

I don't see that making a difference since the magazine is outside the pistol grip to begin with.

If it was me, unless you got a clear answer from someone that's extremely familiar with the MA laws, I'd just keep it in Maine and not bugger it with the other mods. Keep in mind, I think you're going to be hitting the wall with the weight limitation. Especially if you fix the magazine to the pistol. When my pistol buffer set arrives later on today, I'll put it onto the scale with the lower and LPK to see what those weigh by themselves. I'll toss the upper I have on there too (no BCG or charging handle though) to see what it comes out to. I suspect it will be too close to the 50oz limit right there.

 

[Flyer007]

You guys are missing the point.. it is an assault weapon IF it has a detachable magazine AND 2 or more features. I am talking about pinning/fixing the magazine, removing the first, key requirement of an AW, thus making it not an AW.

Makes perfect sense to me.....so that must mean it is wrong in MA

I would think you would be fine unless you were busted for some other thing. Then they would try to make this stick and you'd have to spend more $ on top of whatever other charges you were originally busted for.

Similar to the undated hi-cap mag arguments.

 

[winter]

I know that CA and MA laws, though both retarded, are not the same. I simply knew that the billet button thing was a workaround for CA citizens.

I will try to figure out what BATFE has for info. I will probably pin it off the bat just to cover my ass.

Thanks Mike

CA law is not analogous to MA law so don't even bother comparing the two. People try to do this all the time and it's brain dead. Their ban is nothing like ours.

Problem on the ground in MA is MA law is based on old federal law that doesn't exist anymore and good luck getting an interpretation from state authorities as to what constitutes as "legal" on the margins. I'm sure BATFE has defined what a detachable magazine is though, that would be a good place to start looking, but I would bet nearly anything that a bullet button, etc, isn't going to cut it.

-Mike

 

[Flyer007]

At Golddiggi He won't need to worry about weight if he attaches the mag. By doing so the firearm no longer meets the first criteria.

Winter. Tack weld the mag to the mag well. That should be permanent enough

 

[Franco]

Another semi neutered way around MA law is to just have a swappable barrel assembly (when in MA) with the barrel gas port filled with weld and use it similar to a bolt action (use the charging handle to cycle it) and keep all the banned features including the ability to use a detachable preban mag. Now its a manual gun. which is clearly exempt from the MA AWB.

 

[glide]

CA DOJ has said (probably to their chagrin) that a bullet button is a recognized method of 'permanently' attaching a mag. You will get no such ruling from anyone in the MA AG's office.

Don't bother checking with the BATFE either. Their opinion holds no weight in MA.

 

[winter]

I will figure this out!

 

[Marcus99]

All legal issue's aside, don't bother with an AR pistol unless it is 11.5" (ok, 10.5"), and at that point you might as well legally SBR it. I looked into 7.5" AR pistols and yes, they are a 10 on the tacticooool ladder, but in reality they are a waste of money.

Just my .02

 

[Mike-Mike]

If it doesn't accept a detachable magazine he can build it all day with all the other features and it doesn't matter if it weighs 70oz.

 

[winter]

The nice thing about building an AR pistol is that I can do it with an 80% lower and have the gov NOT know about it. With an SBR I need a stamp. AND I got 3 7.5" uppers for $400.. I wanted a Spikes 10.5" but that isn't happening for a LONG time.

All legal issue's aside, don't bother with an AR pistol unless it is 11.5" (ok, 10.5"), and at that point you might as well legally SBR it. I looked into 7.5" AR pistols and yes, they are a 10 on the tacticooool ladder, but in reality they are a waste of money.

Just my .02

It would be nice to find an easy way to work around the AWB if we can use Bullet Buttons or the like.

 

[Mike-Mike]

All legal issue's aside, don't bother with an AR pistol unless it is 11.5" (ok, 10.5"), and at that point you might as well legally SBR it. I looked into 7.5" AR pistols and yes, they are a 10 on the tacticooool ladder, but in reality they are a waste of money.

Just my .02

I disagree, In MA the law treats possession of a pistol much different than a rifle. So for a range toy I might agree, but for a usable defense tool the pistol is the way to go.

 

[winter]

Well in the AW definition, a "detachable magazine" is requirement for both rifles and pistols. So in effect, if you fix the magazine, you can put whatever evil features on it you want... That is what I am going to figure out anyways.

I disagree, In MA the law treats possession of a pistol much different than a rifle. So for a range toy I might agree, but for a usable defense tool the pistol is the way to go.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Well in the AW definition, a "detachable magazine" is requirement for both rifles and pistols. So in effect, if you fix the magazine, you can put whatever evil features on it you want... That is what I am going to figure out anyways.

You are correct.

 

[Marcus99]

I disagree, In MA the law treats possession of a pistol much different than a rifle. So for a range toy I might agree, but for a usable defense tool the pistol is the way to go.

Like I said in my post, ALL LEGAL ISSUES ASIDE.

 

[winter]

Made some MASSIVE headway today! I contacted the Attorney Generals Office, they referred me to the Executive Office of Public Safety, they referred me to the Department of Criminal Justice Information Services, they referred me to the Massachusetts Firearm Records Bureau, who referred me to the ATF who transferred me to NSA, who transferred me to the guy with the answers... and I got his voicemail.

All the tards at the state level kept saying IANAL and I was like I KNOW! I am not looking for legal advice... I am asking for an explanation of your SHITTY LAWS!

I then called up the Boston ATF office and after getting bounced around a little bit, I was connected with Mike. Mike, who I am sure was preoccupied as he was out on the road, seemed to give a genuine interest to my question... You can pin a muzzle brake to make it MA compliant, you can pin a stock to make it MA compliant, can you pin a magazine to make it MA compliant? He gave me his name and number and asked me to call back in the morning.

I will tackle the Bullet Button at a later point.. Want to establish the basics first.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Nobody will give you answer on the bullet button (even if you call the pope). If the mag is not detachable the AWB doesn't apply. What constitutes "ability to accept" ? A pin? I don't know however for the sake of argument if you welded the mag in the gun or made a pistol out of a fixed mag AR then you could build a pistol with all the other evil features.

 

[winter]

Yeah.. I am not welding the magazine to the receiver. I will pin it prior to building it into a pistol, thus I can say that it was "designed" for that purpose. The FRB guy said I can not do it to an exsisting one because it was not "designed" for that purpose. Though I think he is full of shit because a collapsable stock is not "designed" to be a fixed stock, even if you pin it.

 

[Neuro]

im with you too.... interested in an AR pistol build too. for me the 55oz weight limit was a bother. But I like your logic. If a 'permanent' magazine is in place, it may make the whole argument moot.

 

[Almostelmo]

How would you load a pinned magazine on an AR?

 

[Mike-Mike]

How would you load a pinned magazine on an AR?

Break it open and use stripper clips.

 

[Almostelmo]

Break it open and use stripper clips.

Ahhh, thank you. I knew I was overlooking the obvious

 

[winter]

Exactly! I have always loved AR pistols..

SBR - the stock - $200 tax stamp - GOV knowing anything = ****ING AMAZING!

im with you too.... interested in an AR pistol build too. for me the 55oz weight limit was a bother. But I like your logic. If a 'permanent' magazine is in place, it may make the whole argument moot.

I just emailed Jim over at GOAL to get his thoughts on the idea.

 

[winter]

Update: Mike is actively looking into it this morning.

 

[drgrant]

I disagree, In MA the law treats possession of a pistol much different than a rifle. So for a range toy I might agree, but for a usable defense tool the pistol is the way to go.

Yeah but in theory, under MGL and SBR is also a "Firearm" AKA a pistol, as well... so you're not losing anything by SBRing it, and you're gaining a lot.

-Mike

 

[Mike-Mike]

Yeah but in theory, under MGL and SBR is also a "Firearm" AKA a pistol, as well... so you're not losing anything by SBRing it, and you're gaining a lot.

-Mike

Wow, This was a question I posed to a firearms attorney about this and AOW (shotgun) WRT possession and his answer was "It's not a pistol"