Good. I have a problem with over thinking things.
I don't plan on being here forever. Plan on moving back to a free state someday and I want to be all setup when I visit friends in free states with suppressors
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MA Assault Weapons Ban "AWB" FAQ
- Thread starter drgrant
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Good. I have a problem with over thinking things.
I don't plan on being here forever. Plan on moving back to a free state someday and I want to be all setup when I visit friends in free states with suppressors
I don't think it's intentional, it's a "meme" started by a bunch of MA dealers to consider handguns as being "banned" in MA.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
So this bad terminology catches fire, and other people start using it... even if it is completely retarded to do so. -Mike
Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else, but trying to be safe, not sorry...
Wanting to get pre ban AR Mag, say 30 capacity. 4seasons didn't have them last time i went a month ago, they said check back again every 2 weeks or so.
Do i just assume that as a licensed FFL they validate that the product is pre ban. I am not sure I have read where there are identifying markings showing DOM of the magazine to be prior to 9/94. So even with a sales receipt, I would still believe the onus is on me, caveat emptor, correct?
Or am I making something out of nothing, and should just purchase if I find them. (did a search on 'buying pre ban mag', but too many threads came up, figured this might be the best one, but if the answer is there, just point it out)
Just looking for the easiest way to get these without breaking the law...
Wanting to get pre ban AR Mag, say 30 capacity. 4seasons didn't have them last time i went a month ago, they said check back again every 2 weeks or so.
Do i just assume that as a licensed FFL they validate that the product is pre ban. I am not sure I have read where there are identifying markings showing DOM of the magazine to be prior to 9/94. So even with a sales receipt, I would still believe the onus is on me, caveat emptor, correct?
Or am I making something out of nothing, and should just purchase if I find them. (did a search on 'buying pre ban mag', but too many threads came up, figured this might be the best one, but if the answer is there, just point it out)
Just looking for the easiest way to get these without breaking the law...
Never assume anything a dealer says or does as truth. they are there to make money. it is not their problem if you take possession of a postban magazine and a sales receipt doesn't prove anything.
Check out the NES classifieds, there are always preban mags for sale and people are more honest or intelligent than dealers in these matters.
Check out the NES classifieds, there are always preban mags for sale and people are more honest or intelligent than dealers in these matters.
THIS! ^^^^^
I KNOW that some distributors have lied to MA dealers, selling them new post-ban mags and telling them that they were new pre-ban mags! Therefore the distributor pockets big profits.
I know that some MA dealers intentionally sell post-ban mags as pre-ban so that they can pocket the big profits.
Caveat emptor is the word! It's all on you. [Yes, if a seller gets caught, they too can face felony charges. To date, I know of dealers who were caught, got letters from the AG specifying details and agreeing not to prosecute if they just ceased and desisted. Don't think you or I would be given such a break from our local PD and DA!]
Receipts prove nothing. Since there is no S/N on a mag, a receipt doesn't prove which mag is which . . . and over time as you accumulate lots of mags like some of us, you no longer have a clue where you got any one specific mag.
I think I know the answer, but can I put an adjustable stock on my Mossberg 500 with an 8 round capacity? I'm assuming since it is not considered an assault weapon because it is not an automatic, that I can put whatever evil gun features on it that I want. Would it be considered an assault weapon if I put on a collapsible stock, pistol grip, bayonet (if they made on for a 500), and flash suppressor (if they made one)?
Really, I just want to put on a collapsible stock.
Really, I just want to put on a collapsible stock.
inerlogic
NES Member
A Mossberg 500 with an 8 round tube is illegal in MA.......
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ETA: *IF* it was not lawfully possessed before september blah blah 1994
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Yes, as well as any, or all, other "evil" features.
As a pump action, it is exempt...
MGL 140-121 said:
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121
The gun itself is not illegal, though there have been some lengthy debates as to whether the magazine constitutes a "post-ban large capacity feeding device".
OfficerObie59
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You'll probably save some money, too.
inerlogic
NES Member
I didn't say the gun was illegal, since the tube holds more than 5 rounds it is a high cap feeding device. The federal ban exempted manually operated firearms.... The MA ban does not.
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In that case so would a Rem 1100 or 11/87 since it is a semi-auto that could hold "mini-shells" in excess of 5!!
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
Although I've never actually seen a mini-shell, I was informed here on NES during a prior argument on this matter that they do indeed exist and essentially double the capacity of any tube-fed shotgun.
Go around telling all the skeet/trap shooters and hunters and watch their heads explode! [I used to shoot skeet and trap with an 1100.]
Personally I don't buy it but I might buy shares in tinfoil mfrs to take advantage of the tinfoil panic.
I don't think so since I'm the original owner and purchased it at K-Mart in MA in 1996.
inerlogic
NES Member
Doesn't matter what you think, what matters is the law in this shithole state......
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inerlogic
NES Member
I bought some mini-shells in VT.... If I remember i'll bring 'em to the next shoot....
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In that case so would a Rem 1100 or 11/87 since it is a semi-auto that could hold "mini-shells" in excess of 5!!
Although I've never actually seen a mini-shell, I was informed here on NES during a prior argument on this matter that they do indeed exist and essentially double the capacity of any tube-fed shotgun.
Go around telling all the skeet/trap shooters and hunters and watch their heads explode! [I used to shoot skeet and trap with an 1100.]
Personally I don't buy it but I might buy shares in tinfoil mfrs to take advantage of the tinfoil panic.
Aguila Mini-shells slugs - 1.5 inches long.
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/cPath/120_259_206/products_id/620
I've actually spotted a box of mini-shells in a store. Didn't bother to open it up, not that curious.
I used to shoot skeet and trap many years ago . . . and loaded my own 9s and 7.5s for the job.
Otherwise I shoot slugs or 00 buck at car/pumpkin shoots which have both gone "scarce" locally.
I just pointed that out to show the absurdity and the "unintended consequences" of writing dumb laws!
I used to shoot skeet and trap many years ago . . . and loaded my own 9s and 7.5s for the job.
Otherwise I shoot slugs or 00 buck at car/pumpkin shoots which have both gone "scarce" locally.
I just pointed that out to show the absurdity and the "unintended consequences" of writing dumb laws!
JGreen
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Your Mossberg 500 with the 8 rnd mag is just fine, provided you have and FID or better. You can see read the section of law below:
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121
inerlogic
NES Member
No it isn't, because it has a large capacity feeding device capable of holding more than 5 shotgun shells...... Here's the section of law from the page you just linked to:
Large capacity feeding devices are banned under the MA assault weapons ban..... Manually operated firearms WERE EXEMPT under the federal ban, which is how you were able to buy it in '98, but the state ban does not have the exemption language the fed ban has......
Write your state reps, this shit needs to be fixed.....
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JGreen
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You are putting in language that does not exist. You are also claiming that all large capacity magazines are illegal. This info is not correct and is why I posted the link.
inerlogic
NES Member
Are you illiterate? What part of "more than 5 shotgun shells" is confusing you? 8 is more than 5 last I counted......
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language that does not exist? what planet are you from? here are links to the LAWS...
if you can't understand the thick black letters, find someone with a high school diploma or G.E.D. to explain them to you.
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131M
so unless he's a cop, or retired cop, or some other law enforcement type person....
he is in possession of a banned high capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed 4 years before he bought it.
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So, KMart violated the State ban in 1996? I totally get the confusion the way the laws were written. There is a statement in the definition you referenced, "the term assault weapon shall not include: (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action;" The Mossberg 500 has a slide action.
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inerlogic
NES Member
right, it's not an "assault weapon"
but it's magazine is capable of holding more than 5 shotgun shells, and is therefore a "Large Capacity Feeding Device" which is NOT exempt....
inerlogic
NES Member
Romney signed the currently worded state ban into effect when he was governor in 2004. If there were previous bans on the books in MA in '96, I don't know what they were....
and yes, pump action shotguns are not "assault weapons"
but the magazine that holds more than 5 rounds is a large capacity feeding device....
THAT is why it falls under the AWB.....
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inerlogic
NES Member
the issue is the magazine being a "Large Capacity Feeding Device"
and the reason those words are in quotation marks, is that there is a specific definition for them according to the state, which has been posted in this thread at least twice if not more.
L.C.F.D. are banned (unless lawfully possessed before 9/13/94)
so a mossberg 500, while being a pump action shotgun is not considered an "assault weapon" or even a "large capacity weapon"
if its magazine holds more than 5 shells, that magazine is considered a "large capacity feeding device" and is banned in the commonwealth....
The problem with the shotgun bullshit is that there is an argument floating around that a magazine tube is not an LCAFD. When you remove it from the gun its not capable of holding anything, so how can that tube be an LCAFD?
The other problem is there is an issue of nebulousness with it. If I take a shotgun chambered for 3.5 in shells and fill the tube up with 3.5s, I might only be able to get five OF THOSE shells into shotgun X. On the other hand if you put 2.75 shells in you might be able to get more than that in there. Is the shotgun tube an LCAFD all the time or only if you put 2.75 in shells in it? The law is silent and doesn't address all that shit at all.
Pretty much every major gun dealer in MA ignores the capacity issue on pump action shotguns. I can go to like 3 different gun shops, tomorrow morning, and buy a pump that holds more than 5 rounds in the tube. IMHO this tells me the on the ground interpretation is that these guns do not violate the AWB for whatever reason. I'm not saying that gun shops are good legal arbiters by any stretch, but if some of the most risk-averse gun shops in the state are doing this, then there's probably a fair chance it isn't very legally dangerous- remember there is a felony rap for dealers who sell an illegal LCAFD, although in practice this is never really enforced. )
Compounding the problem is there are exactly ZERO AWB cases on the books with regards to shotgun capacity. I don't think the state is really interested in opening that can of worms for whatever reason, or it hasn't had a chance to yet.
I think this issue might be addressed in Glidden's book but I never cared to look into it. Not to mention it's possible Glidden is completely wrong on it, anyways. (Remember, this is the same guy who thiinks that "Once in AW always an AW- even if its neutered" which we all know is a bunch of shit. )
-Mike
The other problem is there is an issue of nebulousness with it. If I take a shotgun chambered for 3.5 in shells and fill the tube up with 3.5s, I might only be able to get five OF THOSE shells into shotgun X. On the other hand if you put 2.75 shells in you might be able to get more than that in there. Is the shotgun tube an LCAFD all the time or only if you put 2.75 in shells in it? The law is silent and doesn't address all that shit at all.
Pretty much every major gun dealer in MA ignores the capacity issue on pump action shotguns. I can go to like 3 different gun shops, tomorrow morning, and buy a pump that holds more than 5 rounds in the tube. IMHO this tells me the on the ground interpretation is that these guns do not violate the AWB for whatever reason. I'm not saying that gun shops are good legal arbiters by any stretch, but if some of the most risk-averse gun shops in the state are doing this, then there's probably a fair chance it isn't very legally dangerous- remember there is a felony rap for dealers who sell an illegal LCAFD, although in practice this is never really enforced. )
Compounding the problem is there are exactly ZERO AWB cases on the books with regards to shotgun capacity. I don't think the state is really interested in opening that can of worms for whatever reason, or it hasn't had a chance to yet.
I think this issue might be addressed in Glidden's book but I never cared to look into it. Not to mention it's possible Glidden is completely wrong on it, anyways. (Remember, this is the same guy who thiinks that "Once in AW always an AW- even if its neutered" which we all know is a bunch of shit. )
-Mike
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inerlogic
NES Member
Mike, i bought some of those mini-shells... 1.5"
a remington 870 with a 3 round tube will hold 5 of those, by the letter of the law, pretty much every shotgun in MA is illegal, unless it's an OU, side by side or single shot....
interpretation on the ground and dealers ignoring things is one thing.... but the way the law is written is bad....
that doesn't make it invalid or unenforceable....
the federal ban exempted tubes on manually operated firearms, our geniuses left that part out... are you likely to get jammed up?
*probably* not... can you get royally f*****? absolutely....
this is something we need to get fixed...
i'm not saying i own a mossberg 500 that holds 7 rounds, or that i could've potentially bought one from a dealer i trust... but i am saying that just in case i ever come across one, i'm looking for a new tube/barrel combo that holds less than 5 shells possibly....
although..... i suppose there's no way to tell *when* the tube was manufactured if it's not marked.....
a remington 870 with a 3 round tube will hold 5 of those, by the letter of the law, pretty much every shotgun in MA is illegal, unless it's an OU, side by side or single shot....
interpretation on the ground and dealers ignoring things is one thing.... but the way the law is written is bad....
that doesn't make it invalid or unenforceable....
the federal ban exempted tubes on manually operated firearms, our geniuses left that part out... are you likely to get jammed up?
*probably* not... can you get royally f*****? absolutely....
this is something we need to get fixed...
i'm not saying i own a mossberg 500 that holds 7 rounds, or that i could've potentially bought one from a dealer i trust... but i am saying that just in case i ever come across one, i'm looking for a new tube/barrel combo that holds less than 5 shells possibly....
although..... i suppose there's no way to tell *when* the tube was manufactured if it's not marked.....
inerlogic,
Obviously everyone else in the state (and I include Glidden, EOPS, Jason Guida, myself, Jon Green, etc.) is stupid and clueless and only you know what the law is! As I stated above, if you are correct, then every Rem 1100 or 11/87 made after 9/13/1994) is an illegal assault weapon (they are semi-auto) and have an "illegal large-capacity feeding device" (due to holding 6 mini-shells). And every FUDD shop in the state sells those shotguns to this very day. You may want to turn them all in to the AG's office!
Not that you'll believe this, but the Fed Ban from 1994-2004 was codified in MGL in 1998, so MA has effectively had the ban in place since 1994.
I'm outta here! I try to educate people that want to learn, I gave up arguing with people who don't want to learn a number of years ago.
Obviously everyone else in the state (and I include Glidden, EOPS, Jason Guida, myself, Jon Green, etc.) is stupid and clueless and only you know what the law is! As I stated above, if you are correct, then every Rem 1100 or 11/87 made after 9/13/1994) is an illegal assault weapon (they are semi-auto) and have an "illegal large-capacity feeding device" (due to holding 6 mini-shells). And every FUDD shop in the state sells those shotguns to this very day. You may want to turn them all in to the AG's office!
Not that you'll believe this, but the Fed Ban from 1994-2004 was codified in MGL in 1998, so MA has effectively had the ban in place since 1994.
I'm outta here! I try to educate people that want to learn, I gave up arguing with people who don't want to learn a number of years ago.
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inerlogic
NES Member
all i know about is the fed ban and the romney ban, i've already said in this thread i don't know what went on in MA before '04 WRT a state ban...
please educate me, show me where a pump action shotgun with a tube capacity of more than 5 rounds is exempted.
because i've been up and down chapter 140 and i can't find it.
just because dealers sell them, doesn't mean anything, how many threads on this forum do members tell other members to not look to dealers or law enforcement for what's legal and what isn't legal? hey, i can show you five guys at the next Plymouth gun show selling brand new cproducts 30 round AR mags that are "pre ban"
i'm not saying i'm the only one who knows what the law is, maybe i'm the only one not saying "hell, no one has been prosecuted for this, must be GTG"
maybe G.O.A.L. should work on getting this issue resolved before someone IS prosecuted under it? because i'd hate for it to be me.....
ETA: and not to get away from the point of why i originally posted tonight....
i don't want to tell a guy his gun is legal when according to the letter of the law, it isn't....
shotgun holds more than 5 rounds, bought brand new at k-mart in '98 (along with some 200 count cotton sheets and some nice corningware i'm sure) all the fudd gun shops in MA selling them to this day aren't going to change what's written in the law....
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Not to throw gas on this, but if the ban relates to "Assault Weapons" and pump shot guns are excluded from that definition, shouldn't the feeding devices relating to "Assault Weapons" reference those feeding devices associated with "Assault Weapons?" It seems backwards and contrary to the law as written to define an assault weapon exclusively by its feeding device. My nail gun and staple guns have high capacity feeding devices. I did not read anywhere in the law that an assault weapon is defined by having a feeding device holding more than x units of projectile.
