M1 Garand Smith wanted

xp220

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I shot about 3-4 enblocs total- did not have sufficient daylight. Will spend more time on it next weekend and I then probably try more HXP before comparing with Creedmoor's
 

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I shot about 3-4 enblocs total- did not have sufficient daylight. Will spend more time on it next weekend and I then probably try more HXP before comparing with Creedmoor's
Might sound funny but my rifle needs about 5-10 shots to "refoul" between different ammo.
I can shoot 10 rounds of HXP then 10 shots of my reloads with noseler bullets and my noslers reloads wont group well until i dump 5-10 rounds down range?
This is even worse with my 22s!
 

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@mac1911, thanks!
here are a couple of targets at 100 yard yesterday. Shoot 3 enblocs before the range getting too many people. We use a 30 cal measure to check(what is the official name of the device?) , I was told that there could be two doubles in first targets
 

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mac1911

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There is a scoring gauge. It's hard pressed to tell same hole shots with a scoring gauge unless there is a over lap.
Your scoring gauge is used to look and see if you cut the line.
Use a 'magnify glass and see if you can tell.
I'm going to say the likely hood of 2 same hole hits is unlikely. I could be wrong but on your first target about 2" high of the 10" ruler mark there looks like a ever so slight round nic on the paper?
Glad you got out and thanks for posting. Gives me something to read.

When ever I go to the range with a new to me rifle or load I always cover the backer with a fresh piece of paper.
Like this. this covers the entire backer rather than use the shot up backers. I staple this to the target frame. Gives nice clean area. The bottom targets are my ruff 50 yard zero as most of what I shoot is at 200 yards and it will be close enough at 200 zeroed at 50. this goes for most 223 and 30 cal "normal" velocity loads. For cast or really light or heavy fasy loads it will vary a little. Then I just move the frame out to 100 or 200 with the SR center attached.
I normally do not use actual targets I have 3" 6" and 13" circle stencils and just paint bulls on the paper, right now im using chalk board paint I found at a yard sale for .50 cents. It works great and the flat finish works well for the targets.

 
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xp220

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Will shot more in new few weekends. What they did was to use the 30 cal scoring gauge to see if paper target could be picked up by pulling the gauge upward. For all other holes and the ones on another target, the paper will be pull up together with the gauge. Only two hole that seems too big. Using a 03 cal bullet seems doing the same.

@mac1911, what was the software you use to the MOA calculation?

I was curious about the "max MOA" and "min MOA" values. I assume that the "MOA" was computed "max distance" and "min distance" between two points, other than using multiple points to compute the MOA? Does it make more sense to compute to something like an average "5 shot MOA" from 8 shots target since 5 shots are normally use in other MOA measure? The software probably do not have that feature yet, but one could write one with the following process:
1) Mathematically, there 56 ways to pick 5 out of 8, that is "8 choose 5", or C(8,5)
2) the software should go through all 56 combinations of 5 holes from 8, then computer the MOA of those 5 shots
3) average over them to get the average MOA

maybe I am overthinking it now.

xp220
 

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https://ontargetshooting.com/ontarget-tds/#download-tds

I was using the free software they offered for years but then my PC crashed. You might get more out of it talking the jumbled 8 in 5 dribble drabble. From the basic as I understand it its all averaged off the center of the group? I have not played with systems own targets that picks up bullet holes auto magically yet. I am doing a few 22lr test over a few weeks and will try the system more to its capabilities
Also been using a app on the phone called range buddy its OK but sucks to use on my small old phone plus it has adds and drives me nuts.
I like the Hawke optics ballistic calculator on my phone and chairgun pro for pellet guns
 

mac1911

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@mac1911, thanks!
here are a couple of targets at 100 yard yesterday. Shoot 3 enblocs before the range getting too many people. We use a 30 cal measure to check(what is the official name of the device?) , I was told that there could be two doubles in first targets
The top double looks possible? Hate doubles. Try carefully flattening the back side back into position and re check.
 
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If you back your paper targets with a piece of cardboard the bullet holes sharpen up more exactly, and you can read the greasy ring easier. Staple the paper taut against the cardboard, and doubles are easily recognizable.

I am a big fan of brown paper also. Ace hardware sells it for $12 a roll.

Your stock-fitting efforts are showing promise, XP220. Start watching for signs of stringing or wandering POI as the rifle heats up over the course of five or six enblocs.

Keep putting rounds downrange--I expect the rifle will continue to smooth out as the barrel coppers up.

Nice work.
 
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xp220

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thanks for the tips. I used to take down M1 often, and now I know. mac1911 also suggested a good cleaning and I will get some Sweete's 7.62.
 
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thanks for the tips. I used to take down M1 often, and now I know. mac1911 also suggested a good cleaning and I will get some Sweete's 7.62.
Your rifle is not a crusty old milsurp, and the foundation of all accuracy is consistency and repeatability, so you may want to hold off on aggressive cleaning for a little while yet. Your rifle is consistently putting 5 shots (of 8) into about 2 MOA. That's PFG, amigo. There is some serious mechanical repeatability going on there. I understand that you want to lose the flyers--and that can happen, and after you have worked out all the kinks hindering mechanical repeatability, better ammo will be one of the linchpins to making that happen.

Question: What is the headstamp on your HXP? Is it a mixed lot, or all the same year? Also--does your spotter (if you have one) record/sketch the sequence of your shots? Is there any sequential commonality to when the flyers occur? Having a spotter document your rifles (non-called) flyers definitely helps in the diagnosis. Sometimes shooting over a chrono instantly unmasks the problem--as the flyers all have velocities above or below the rifles's sweet spot. If you want to explore the notion, I have a chrono you could borrow, or you could pop by Harvard and we'll make a range-session happen.

Anyhow--good stuff. Thanks for the update.
 

xp220

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Thanks for the comment.

The M2 is from same lot. They are in spam-can of 24 enblocs. (Bought a few of cans a while back)

I will check the sequence of shots. I had a spotter but did not record sequence before. I will also bring my chrony - have not used it for a while.
 

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Was going to Noah's on a Saturday when my schedule allowed. Could not find time on weekdays.
From my experience with him, you probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere that day if you did. I called him about a barrel change on my Garand and he said it would be weeks before it would be done and told me a bunch of nonsense about how he might have to modify the bolt and/or the op rod, etc and then the cost was just nuts ($150+ each gun). Same when I asked about simply twisting on a barrel to my 03 receiver that needed about 1/4" or so to go before it indexed so I knew it needed nothing more than elbow grease to tighten up. I took both to a smith in NH I used before and we did both guns in under 2 hours including checking headspace and it cost me I think $60 or so TOTAL, no modifications of anything needed and the Garand is a freakin tack driver now. I know he's got this mystical reputation but I'm not feeling it.
 
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From my experience with him, you probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere that day if you did. I called him about a barrel change on my Garand and he said it would be weeks before it would be done and told me a bunch of nonsense about how he might have to modify the bolt and/or the op rod, etc and then the cost was just nuts ($150+ each gun). Same when I asked about simply twisting on a barrel to my 03 receiver that needed about 1/4" or so to go before it indexed so I knew it needed nothing more than elbow grease to tighten up. I took both to a smith in NH I used before and we did both guns in under 2 hours including checking headspace and it cost me I think $60 or so TOTAL, no modifications of anything needed and the Garand is a freakin tack driver now. I know he's got this mystical reputation but I'm not feeling it.
You have a guy that'll re-barrel a Garand for $30? I find that astonishing. Was he just wrenching on the barrel? Did he not have to headspace the bolt?
 

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You have a guy that'll re-barrel a Garand for $30? I find that astonishing. Was he just wrenching on the barrel? Did he not have to headspace the bolt?
It was a two-fer. I had an 03 barrel that he just needed to twist the extra 1/4" or so to index for me and the Garand needed the barrel removed and new one spun on. Old one came off nicely, just muscle power and new one went on and indexed easily. We then got out the gauges and checked the headspace which was good on both. The new commercial barrel had already been finish reamed by the previous owner who had only put about a clip thru it before swapping it out (probably for a GI barrel) so that wasn't needed. And I helped with the timing/indexing and had already stripped the bolts and the gun to a barreled receiver. So there wasn't a lot of extra nonsense for him to do.

I had him do a Garand barrel for me before and that one did need reaming/headspacing but that I think cost me about 80 bucks. More than reasonable and again I had everything stripped and helped out with timing/indexing and headspacing which I enjoyed doing.
 

mac1911

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From my experience with him, you probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere that day if you did. I called him about a barrel change on my Garand and he said it would be weeks before it would be done and told me a bunch of nonsense about how he might have to modify the bolt and/or the op rod, etc and then the cost was just nuts ($150+ each gun). Same when I asked about simply twisting on a barrel to my 03 receiver that needed about 1/4" or so to go before it indexed so I knew it needed nothing more than elbow grease to tighten up. I took both to a smith in NH I used before and we did both guns in under 2 hours including checking headspace and it cost me I think $60 or so TOTAL, no modifications of anything needed and the Garand is a freakin tack driver now. I know he's got this mystical reputation but I'm not feeling it.
After doing a few new barrels myself with needing to finish ream them from a complete rife $150 is not i
Terrible. You should have heard the few local Smith's around me prices and stories of the galactic technical secret knowledge needed to do such a thing.
Noah does great work and yes you will wait. If I was running a business to support my family gun smithing $30 an hour would most likely not cut it.
 

mac1911

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Your rifle is not a crusty old milsurp, and the foundation of all accuracy is consistency and repeatability, so you may want to hold off on aggressive cleaning for a little while yet. Your rifle is consistently putting 5 shots (of 8) into about 2 MOA. That's PFG, amigo. There is some serious mechanical repeatability going on there. I understand that you want to lose the flyers--and that can happen, and after you have worked out all the kinks hindering mechanical repeatability, better ammo will be one of the linchpins to making that happen.

Question: What is the headstamp on your HXP? Is it a mixed lot, or all the same year? Also--does your spotter (if you have one) record/sketch the sequence of your shots? Is there any sequential commonality to when the flyers occur? Having a spotter document your rifles (non-called) flyers definitely helps in the diagnosis. Sometimes shooting over a chrono instantly unmasks the problem--as the flyers all have velocities above or below the rifles's sweet spot. If you want to explore the notion, I have a chrono you could borrow, or you could pop by Harvard and we'll make a range-session happen.

Anyhow--good stuff. Thanks for the update.
All good info.
Just want to add that if the barrel is not new chances are it will be heavily fouled. Everyone of my cmp garands shot better after a deep decopper cleaning. You don't need to take the rifle apart just clean the barrel. Then your good to go for another 1k rounds or so.

Tips:
1. Work on your sight picture and position. If your not putting your head in the same spot behind the sight each time results will vary.
2. Focus on that front sight
3. Call your shots- this will help. Write them down. If your focusing on the front sight calling shots gets easier.
4. Trigger control and breathing be aware.

Warm garand is correct that your rifle will most likely have a pattern of shots.
HXP a flyer in every 10 rounds :confused: its just that way.
My guess is the flyer happens with in the first 3 cold shots.
Even the arsenal dumps 3 warm up shots before 5 shot accuracy test.
5. Front sight does not wobble .....tighten gas cylinder splines on the barrel if it does. Only takes .008" to change 1" down range.
 

mac1911

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$150 isn't terrible. But the GS modifying the bolt and op rod to complete the job? Run away.
Depends what they mean by modify the bolt. He could simply be lapping the bolt and checking the op rod specs and repairing as needed.
I dont know if Noahs has a op rod jig or the welding and metal hardening skills or not.
I opt to either just help people when i can or let them borrow the tools as i know most would say my prices are to high IF I had to do gun smithing as a primary source of income.
I had a local smith want to charge me for the reamer and then keep the reamer adding $200 to the cost of the rebarrel.....ahhh no.
 

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If I was running a business to support my family gun smithing $30 an hour would most likely not cut it.
This one's business is run out of his home and since he had nothing else going on and no other customers while I was there, I'd say $30/hr is better than $0/hr! And he's in rural NH so the cost of living is a lot less than here in suburban Boston.
 

mac1911

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This one's business is run out of his home and since he had nothing else going on and no other customers while I was there, I'd say $30/hr is better than $0/hr! And he's in rural NH so the cost of living is a lot less than here in suburban Boston.
Nice to have someone you know and trust
 
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