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M1 Garand Megathread

Mesatchornug said:
And you guys recommend 6 o'clock (line of white?) to center hold because it's easier to find consistently, right?
Click to expand...
Yes- it gives you a clear aiming point. Aiming the black front sight somewhere in the middle of a black bullseye is not so easy to do accurately. 6:00 hold is probably the most common for iron sight match shooting.
 
Mountain said:
Yes- it gives you a clear aiming point. Aiming the black front sight somewhere in the middle of a black bullseye is not so easy to do accurately. 6:00 hold is probably the most common for iron sight match shooting.
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Awesome. I thought that's what I'd read. I just wanted to make sure I use the setup that gives me the best chance at success out of the gate.
 
Mesatchornug said:
And you guys recommend 6 o'clock (line of white?) to center hold because it's easier to find consistently, right?
Click to expand...
Its really personal preference. IF you can see the post clearly when holding center
My only advice is pick one and stick with it for a while. I can no longer use a center hold but I use the widest front sights allowed

View: https://youtu.be/gp69CCY71d4
 
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mac1911 said:
Its really personal preference. IF you can see the post clearly when holding center
My only advice is pick one and stick with it for a while. I can no longer use a center hold but I use the widest front sights allowed

View: https://youtu.be/gp69CCY71d4
Click to expand...


Wondering if my right eyesight has gone to shit enough that I need to punt and go to center of mass. Did better with the Garand but had some terrible vertical stringing with the K31 this week. Horizontally, shots had only about a 1-1/2 MOA spread and would have been X's or high 10's if not up and down. IIRC I shot ~277 with the K31 last New England Games and only a 260 this time.
 
Mountain said:
Wondering if my right eyesight has gone to shit enough that I need to punt and go to center of mass. Did better with the Garand but had some terrible vertical stringing with the K31 this week. Horizontally, shots had only about a 1-1/2 MOA spread and would have been X's or high 10's if not up and down. IIRC I shot ~277 with the K31 last New England Games and only a 260 this time.
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I dont think you will do better with failing eyes and center hold.
For example If I try a center hold now the bull just vanishes.
Going with fattest front sight and smallest rear aperture I can clearly see through has helped more than anything.

when shooting K31 or any rear notch sight I just have to trust what I see or dont.
 
mac1911 said:
I dont think you will do better with failing eyes and center hold.
For example If I try a center hold now the bull just vanishes.
Going with fattest front sight and smallest rear aperture I can clearly see through has helped more than anything.

when shooting K31 or any rear notch sight I just have to trust what I see or dont.
Click to expand...
This week was first time I really struggled with rear notch sights unless I was jet lagged from work. I may go back to a 1917.
 
Using t
Mountain said:
This week was first time I really struggled with rear notch sights unless I was jet lagged from work. I may go back to a 1917.
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Using Your +.50 lens? As that lens gets stronger to see front sight rear notch will get harder and down range will be off also. Especially at 600
 
mac1911 said:
Using t

Using Your +.50 lens? As that lens gets stronger to see front sight rear notch will get harder and down range will be off also. Especially at 600
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Yep, with the +.50. Maybe it will be better if I get better rest. I guess more proof that getting old sucks.
 
I got some enbloc clips, 6 for $10, at the Marlboro gun show yesterday. The guy was charging $2/each, but threw in a free one. The only .30-06 ammo I saw was from Korea, and even though it was quite cheap I avoided it. I forget why, but I know it's bad.

I saw a bunch of incredibly overpriced Garands. I actually got into a nice conversation with a Vietnam vet in a wheelchair who rebuilds Garands. He was selling a beauty for $1,600, and he was telling me how he sold a few to Tombstone for $1,300, the same ones that were on sale for over $2,000.
 
ridleyman said:
I got some enbloc clips, 6 for $10, at the Marlboro gun show yesterday. The guy was charging $2/each, but threw in a free one. The only .30-06 ammo I saw was from Korea, and even though it was quite cheap I avoided it. I forget why, but I know it's bad.

I saw a bunch of incredibly overpriced Garands. I actually got into a nice conversation with a Vietnam vet in a wheelchair who rebuilds Garands. He was selling a beauty for $1,600, and he was telling me how he sold a few to Tombstone for $1,300, the same ones that were on sale for over $2,000.
Click to expand...
Depending on the level of “rebuild” the costs can be up there. Also dependent on when these builders stocked up on parts.
So I ask if you bout 3 refinished M1s for $1300 each with intent to sell at profit what would you sell them for?

The parts bins are running low so prices will be going up
Fulton M1 will set you back $2500 plus and 6 month wait AND I think thats with your receiver?
Really depends what you are looking for
 
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ridleyman said:
I got some enbloc clips, 6 for $10, at the Marlboro gun show yesterday. The guy was charging $2/each, but threw in a free one. The only .30-06 ammo I saw was from Korea, and even though it was quite cheap I avoided it. I forget why, but I know it's bad.

I saw a bunch of incredibly overpriced Garands. I actually got into a nice conversation with a Vietnam vet in a wheelchair who rebuilds Garands. He was selling a beauty for $1,600, and he was telling me how he sold a few to Tombstone for $1,300, the same ones that were on sale for over $2,000.
Click to expand...

There are several known lots of Korean surplus .30-06 that will go kaboom in your rifle. Was next to a guy when it happened to him, though luckily it was a 1903 and the rifle was fine. His face did get hit, and close to an eye. I look at Korean as lots that are known to have kabooms and lots that have yet to have one. Other opinions may vary, especially for someone trying to sell it :rolleyes:- but the information is well documented.
 
ridleyman said:
I got some enbloc clips, 6 for $10, at the Marlboro gun show yesterday. The guy was charging $2/each, but threw in a free one. The only .30-06 ammo I saw was from Korea, and even though it was quite cheap I avoided it. I forget why, but I know it's bad.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, how much were they asking for .30/06 ammo?
 
I put a few clips into the old girl this past weekend and while I used to pride myself at quickly reacquiring my sight picture after taking a shot, nowadays I need a couple of extra seconds to rotate my eye focus between target, front sight post and rear sight aperture because I just can't see them all at once anymore.
Having said that though I still was able to ring a 4 inch steel disk at 60 yards on my first shot and was still able to hit it repeatedly at about 2-3 second intervals. If the nazis attack again i'll still be ready for them although with these old pins i'd probably be that guy who stays behind to hold them off while the rest of you make your escape. [smile]
 
Rehoboth Dave said:
I put a few clips into the old girl this past weekend and while I used to pride myself at quickly reacquiring my sight picture after taking a shot, nowadays I need a couple of extra seconds to rotate my eye focus between target, front sight post and rear sight aperture because I just can't see them all at once anymore.
Having said that though I still was able to ring a 4 inch steel disk at 60 yards on my first shot and was still able to hit it repeatedly at about 2-3 second intervals. If the nazis attack again i'll still be ready for them although with these old pins i'd probably be that guy who stays behind to hold them off while the rest of you make your escape. [smile]
Click to expand...
Umm, you never could see them all at once; it's a physiological impossibility. Our eyes don't work like that. Focus should be on the front sight and the front sight only, to have the best chance at precision.
 
Rehoboth Dave said:
I put a few clips into the old girl this past weekend and while I used to pride myself at quickly reacquiring my sight picture after taking a shot, nowadays I need a couple of extra seconds to rotate my eye focus between target, front sight post and rear sight aperture because I just can't see them all at once anymore.
Having said that though I still was able to ring a 4 inch steel disk at 60 yards on my first shot and was still able to hit it repeatedly at about 2-3 second intervals. If the nazis attack again i'll still be ready for them although with these old pins i'd probably be that guy who stays behind to hold them off while the rest of you make your escape. [smile]
Click to expand...
it only appears that way when young strong eyes, your just "shifting" focus faster . As we get old our eyes grow tired and will not focus as quickly and the eye fails to adjust enough to get focus ----
As we age less light also gets through our eyeballs.
i need Rx to see my front sight clearly. Its about 1/3-1/2 my daily Rx. It also changes depending on distance to target.
My +1.00 lens is great for front sight focus but looking down 600 yards its harder to see the target vs using my +.25 or +.50 which still helps with front sight focus but not as well.

Now the kicker, with my Shooting Rx I cant see rear notch well at all. i actually see what I call a ghost or shadow of the rear sight. Its not exactly doubled so i have to trust what i see and put the focused front sight in the blob im aiming at down range.

Rear aperture sights make it much easier.
So basically what you need to do
Go with the smallest rear aperture you can see clearly through, widest front sight you can use and then some correction if needed.
Only on the brightest of days can I see clearly through a rear aperture smaller than .048

The eye pall thing works pretty well but I find it darn near impossible to use during rapid fire and i need to either buy several pairs for sitting, standing,prone or try to move it around during 2 min prep.
 
Well it being a physiological impossibility or not, for the past half a century i've been able to see my front sight post and rear sight aperture and target enough to get the classic sight picture. Now when I focus on the front sight the rear sight and target disappear and i'm not talking go blurry but fade from sight. Especially the rear sight. I've developed a kind of rolling focus to rapidly cycle between the three but it takes a second or two longer than I'd like. So far I can still hit what i'm aiming at. [mg]

Mac have you tried progressive lenses?
 
Rehoboth Dave said:
Well it being a physiological impossibility or not, for the past half a century i've been able to see my front sight post and rear sight aperture and target enough to get the classic sight picture. Now when I focus on the front sight the rear sight and target disappear and i'm not talking go blurry but fade from sight. Especially the rear sight. I've developed a kind of rolling focus to rapidly cycle between the three but it takes a second or two longer than I'd like. So far I can still hit what i'm aiming at. [mg]

Mac have you tried progressive lenses?
Click to expand...
You can normally “see” your rear aperture, your front sight, and the target at the same time. The issue is that normally only one of them will actually be in focus. The other two will be visible but blurry. This is due to your eye’s depth of field. With any lens system, when you focus on a particular object some things in front of it and some things beyond it will also appear to be “in focus” (I put “in focus” in quotes since the term actually depends on what resolution you mean when you say in focus, for shooting purposes it is general not as fine as if you’re doing macro photography) but most things in front and behind of what you’re focusing on will be out of focus. The closer an object is to the lens (your eye in this case) the shallower your depth of field. For example, on a rifle if you focus on your rear sight, your depth of field will be quite shallow, maybe an inch in front of the sight and a couple of inches beyond it. So your front sight and target will be out of focus. If you focus on your front sight, your depth of field will be bit deeper, but still only a couple on inches in front of the sight and maybe a few feet beyond it. So your rear sight will still be out of focus as will the target. If you focus on the target, if it’s beyond say 100 yards, you might be at your eye’s “hyperfocal distance”, which means everything beyond the target will appear in focus, but both the rear and front sight will be out of focus.

This is why you should focus on the front sight. While your depth of focus will not include the rear sight and the target, everything will be closer to being in focus range than if you focused on either of the other two.

While it’s true that being able to rapidly switch focus between the three objects can make targeting easier, you really just need to concentrate on keeping the front sight in focus. The rear sight will be blurred, but that’s the advantage of a peep sight. Even if the edge of the peep is blurred, the center opening will still be a round hole that you can center the front sight in. You actually never focus on the hole, you just look through it. And while the target will be out of focus, it should be on the far edge of your depth of field when focused on the front sight and be good enough for you to recognize the bull.

Another thing that will effect your depth of field is your pupil size. The smaller your pupil is open, the deeper your depth of field will be. That’s why you never want to wear sunglasses when using irons. You want your pupils to close down as much as possible to increase your depth of field.

That’s the big advantage of optics. With a good optic you can adjust it so that the sight (reticle) and the target are all on the same focal plane so that everything can be in focus at the same time.
 
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mac1911 said:
Depending on the level of “rebuild” the costs can be up there. Also dependent on when these builders stocked up on parts.
So I ask if you bout 3 refinished M1s for $1300 each with intent to sell at profit what would you sell them for?

The parts bins are running low so prices will be going up
Fulton M1 will set you back $2500 plus and 6 month wait AND I think thats with your receiver?
Really depends what you are looking for
Click to expand...
$1,750
 
Rehoboth Dave said:
Well it being a physiological impossibility or not, for the past half a century i've been able to see my front sight post and rear sight aperture and target enough to get the classic sight picture. Now when I focus on the front sight the rear sight and target disappear and i'm not talking go blurry but fade from sight. Especially the rear sight. I've developed a kind of rolling focus to rapidly cycle between the three but it takes a second or two longer than I'd like. So far I can still hit what i'm aiming at. [mg]

Mac have you tried progressive lenses?
Click to expand...
Progressives will do very little for correction for shooting. Plus your eye will be looking through different area of the lens in different positions.

I struggle with the aiming black vanishing
Myself. Some days I have to hold low in the white and just bring the sight up till it just kidses whats left of the aiming blur and snap of a shot before the vanishing .
 
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ridleyman said:
$1,750
Click to expand...
Is that your best price?
I will you take $1400
This is how Im sure it will play out.
So shop hangs $2000 and takes the first offer at $1500-$1750
I know Im not going to tie up $4000 for 3 rifles to sit on the rack waiting. So might as well start high right?
Its all fun.
 
cathouse01 said:
You can normally “see” your rear aperture, your front sight, and the target at the same time. The issue is that normally only one of them will actually be in focus. The other two will be visible but blurry. This is due to your eye’s depth of field. With any lens system, when you focus on a particular object some things in front of it and some things beyond it will also appear to be “in focus” (I put “in focus” in quotes since the term actually depends on what resolution you mean when you say in focus, for shooting purposes it is general not as fine as if you’re doing macro photography) but most things in front and behind of what you’re focusing on will be out of focus. The closer an object is to the lens (your eye in this case) the shallower your depth of field. For example, on a rifle if you focus on your rear sight, your depth of field will be quite shallow, maybe an inch in front of the sight and a couple of inches beyond it. So your front sight and target will be out of focus. If you focus on your front sight, your depth of field will be bit deeper, but still only a couple on inches in front of the sight and maybe a few feet beyond it. So your rear sight will still be out of focus as will the target. If you focus on the target, if it’s beyond say 100 yards, you might be at your eye’s “hyperfocal distance”, which means everything beyond the target will appear in focus, but both the rear and front sight will be out of focus.

This is why you should focus on the front sight. While your depth of focus will not include the rear sight and the target, everything will be closer to being in focus range than if you focused on either of the other two.

While it’s true that being able to rapidly switch focus between the three objects can make targeting easier, you really just need to concentrate on keeping the front sight in focus. The rear sight will be blurred, but that’s the advantage of a peep sight. Even if the edge of the peep is blurred, the center opening will still be a round hole that you can center the front sight in. You actually never focus on the hole, you just look through it. And while the target will be out of focus, it should be on the far edge of your depth of field when focused on the front sight and be good enough for you to recognize the bull.

Another thing that will effect your depth of field is your pupil size. The smaller your pupil is open, the deeper your depth of field will be. That’s why you never want to wear sunglasses when using irons. You want your pupils to close down as much as possible to increase your depth of field.

That’s the big advantage of optics. With a good optic you can adjust it so that the sight (reticle) and the target are all on the same focal plane so that everything can be in focus at the same time.
Click to expand...

I'm going to guess that you are quite a bit younger than @Rehoboth Dave . What you wrote is correct for most folks, but once you have been shooting for half a century (you gettin' old!), the bull can completely fade away after a while. One of our friends that we compete with who has been a top shooter at the national level for decades will periodically have days where if he's focusing too long on the front sight, the bull will fade away. He gets super pissed if pit service (marking and scoring target) is slow because often enough he only has so much time before his vision goes to shit. It will get better with rest, but he'll be done for the day.

Personally, during the pre Wu-flu days when I was going overseas every month for work I could never get good scores if a match was within a day or two of my return. Long days, late nights, probably too much local drink, and jet lag all pile up and my eyesight suffers. You can motivate yourself to get off your ass, but there's nothing you can do for your eyes.
 
rosco61 said:
I am getting "bionic" replacements starting next week. Cataract surgery. I can't wait to see again so I can shoot irons again with clarity. I hope..............
Click to expand...
Same here at the end of October. Unfortunately for me my extreme myopia means I’m not a candidate for the new Extended focus IOLs and the Multifocal IOLs that are available to me all have a history of halo effects. The halo effect is one of my biggest issues with my cataracts, so I really don’t want them after I get the surgery. Since I’ve had to wear glasses since I was 5 years old, having to wear glasses with a standard Monofocal IOL is no biggie for me. My distance vision will be fine but I’ll need reading glasses for close up work and probable a shooting correction. Again, that’s because the Monofocals have a depth of field (range of focus) from about 1 meter to infinity and 1 meter is just a bit too far for the front iron sight of a handgun or rifle. So for anything closer than 1 meter you need corrective glasses. The Extended focus and Multifocal IOLs can get you clear vision from near (around 35 cm, a bit over 1 foot) to far, so if your only worrying about your front sight when shooting irons, you’re good to go.

Mountain said:
I'm going to guess that you are quite a bit younger than @Rehoboth Dave . What you wrote is correct for most folks, but once you have been shooting for half a century (you gettin' old!), the bull can completely fade away after a while. One of our friends that we compete with who has been a top shooter at the national level for decades will periodically have days where if he's focusing too long on the front sight, the bull will fade away. He gets super pissed if pit service (marking and scoring target) is slow because often enough he only has so much time before his vision goes to shit. It will get better with rest, but he'll be done for the day.

Personally, during the pre Wu-flu days when I was going overseas every month for work I could never get good scores if a match was within a day or two of my return. Long days, late nights, probably too much local drink, and jet lag all pile up and my eyesight suffers. You can motivate yourself to get off your ass, but there's nothing you can do for your eyes.
Click to expand...
I don’t think I'm "quite a bit younger” (actually I’m probably quite a bit older) than most folks on the forum, but I was kind of addressing the under 60’s crowd. I will agree that your overall vision acuity does degrade over time. Especial, as is my case, you have cataracts. But the whole depth of field discussion is true for any optical system.

I will say that modern optics will let you shoot way past your prime vision days. The ability to mount red dots on my handguns (even some of my revolvers) has been a real God send.
 
mac1911 said:
Is that your best price?
I will you take $1400
This is how Im sure it will play out.
So shop hangs $2000 and takes the first offer at $1500-$1750
I know Im not going to tie up $4000 for 3 rifles to sit on the rack waiting. So might as well start high right?
Its all fun.
Click to expand...
I agree. However, I can never understand why some gun dealers, and those who sell other products as well, have a ridiculously high asking prices and don't waver. Either they're jerks, delusional, or there's something I'm missing. Example: I see gun dealers on gun broker asking $4,000 for a Garand that's hardly exceptional (except, of course, for the fact that it's a Garand!). And it never sells. So, I'm wondering if they get a tax write off for holding inventory, and all the while they're using the gun as their own. ???

-confused in Lexington
 

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