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Lynndie England
- Thread starter Lynne
- Start date
I don't konw what to think about all this.
I mean, if this never got out, do you think that it would have been this big of a deal?
You can't tell me that things like this aren't used to get information out of people...
I mean, if this never got out, do you think that it would have been this big of a deal?
You can't tell me that things like this aren't used to get information out of people...
I think the whole Camp Gitmo thing, and Abugrab (sp?) thing have been blown WAY out of proportion. I think the libs were just looking for something to bitch about because the majority of people supported the war. I think the guys who were court martialed got a raw deal because some dumb schmuck sent pictures out to family, who then sent them to someone else, etc. and that how they wound up in the hands of an unfriendly and that's what got the whole ball rolling.
And, (to hell with PC'ness), they are carrying this whole "respect their religion" thing WAY too far. They are terrorists who deserve a firing squad, not the kindness of the US military.
Can y'all tell I'm having a stressful day? I do, however, mean every damn word.
And, (to hell with PC'ness), they are carrying this whole "respect their religion" thing WAY too far. They are terrorists who deserve a firing squad, not the kindness of the US military.
Can y'all tell I'm having a stressful day? I do, however, mean every damn word.
I can't pass judgement because I wasn't there, but the pictures say a lot. And like Darius said you have to grow a brain at some point. They do some stuff to get info, but I guarentee it isn't a PFC doing the questioning.
Of course, we should never forget, like so many criminals that do themselves in with their own little mouths, this PFC handed herself to them on a platter when she permitted herself to be photographed doing those bizare stunts with the detainees.
What a fool!
What a fool!
I won't pass judgement,mainly because knowing worse things happen to our guys if captured during war time. Was she stupid for be involved yes. Was it blown out of proportion? You bet it was. I am also sure they are looking for a scapegoat. Unfortunately WE as a country are the ONLY one who follow the Geneva Convention. We also give these terrorist more rights than what they deserve.
Even if our enemies don't follow the Geneva Convention, that is no reason for us not to.
Scapegoat or not, what PFC England did was wrong, and she either knew it, or should have known.
At some point, one has to insist on personal responsibility.
Scapegoat or not, what PFC England did was wrong, and she either knew it, or should have known.
At some point, one has to insist on personal responsibility.
I'm not saying it wasn't wrong,but you know there were others involved in it. I'm not saying we shouldn't follow the Geneva Convention,but because some Muslim group got their panties in a wad over this,and supposedly other things we have done,our guys would suffer even more. Which is what I have a problem with. Our guys don't get the same treatment or fairness that we are showing to these animals that have NO regard for human life what so ever. It shouldn't have happened,but I have no sympathy for anyone who would rather have us all dead.
Like was said, and I'm not making excuses because like it was said...I wasn't there.
But there were rumors at one time that they were told to treat them this way for information by people higher up in the ranks at one point.
Or am I just being naive?
But there were rumors at one time that they were told to treat them this way for information by people higher up in the ranks at one point.
Or am I just being naive?
No there are Rumors that they were told to treat them this way,but it's six and one half of the other. As I said alot worse would be done to our guys. What is true,don't know wasn't there.
Look, even if some person higher up the chain of command, NCO or officer, gave an order to mistreat the prisoners the way PFC England did, she was under no obligation to follow any such illegal order.
Another thing I am sure of is that if the military authorities could find anyone else responsible, an Article 32 hearing would have been convened, and court martial charges preferred against them.
Given the worldwide notoriety, I don't see this as the kind of situation where higher-ups could be protected.
Given the worldwide notoriety, I don't see this as the kind of situation where higher-ups could be protected.
It's hard to imagine that in a military facility of any kind that something as overt as making naked men pile up into a human pyramid could happen without the knowledge of high ranking officials.
But I can't say that without knowing each and every prisoner involved personally as to whether or not what was done was a violation of human rights. I know some of the prisoners being held probably really are innocent. And others are suicide bombers waiting to happen.
But it's still being blown out of proportion.
But I can't say that without knowing each and every prisoner involved personally as to whether or not what was done was a violation of human rights. I know some of the prisoners being held probably really are innocent. And others are suicide bombers waiting to happen.
But it's still being blown out of proportion.
CrossX you would not believe how much the Good Ole Boy club runs in the military. Things any lower enlisted tried would have been court martialed in a heartbeat,but God forbid Higher NCO's and officers at time seem to get away with alot more. Higher ups would be protected,and hence finding a scapegoat which is quite common in the military. Saw enough crap when I was in.
MrsWildweasel said:
Ummm, I think I may have a bit more experience than you know about. I was in the USAF in the mid-eighties, serving as a JAG, first as the Chief Prosecutor for a base in California, and then as the Area Defense Counsel.
I have seen it, up-close, from both sides. I certainly don't try to speak for all branches of service, or even all-USAF, but from what I saw, justice was dispense even-handedly, but, upon conviction, punishment tended to be severe.
Everyone I saw who was caught for a serious offense was prosecuted. No exceptions.
This was my experience with military justice.
Cross-X said:
So, umm, CrossX, how much time did you do? [lol] [lol]
SiameseRat said:
Very funny, Ms. Rat, verrrry funny.
Four years -- from 1984--1988.
Serving at Vandenberg AFB, and many TDYs to March, Edwards, Nellis, Travis, George, and other area bases.
What's a TDY?
I was in a small unit early 80's. I know of an officer that actually beat some one and nothing was done,I know of lower enlisted getting caught on piss test,they were art.15'd thrown out of Berlin. Same said officer comes up hot,and he is still there. I know of an E-7 that was so friggin incompetent,anyone else they would have thrown out,but they found a closet so he could retire after 20 years. I should also state I was Army. There is a whole laundry list I can go down. I still stand by the Good Ole Boys Club.
TDY, is tempory duty to another base,etc.
Cross-X said:
BINGO! And she actually was obligated to NOT obey it.
I think the pic's they took, were on their own, not directed. They likely saw how the prisoner's were treated, and decided to have some "fun".
Now, remember, I have ZERO empathy for the prisoners, but what happened in the prison was WRONG, by our own military standards.
Besides, why validate the other side's mistreatment of our guys and gals?
Just read the rest of it, and I agree with Sue. I saw some really WRONG stuff in my time. Things have gotten better though.
I had a friend that got convicted of Rape, because he wouldn't pay his bill (to another soldier, in the same section). She said she "didn't know it was rape at the time". So, she filed the complaint two weeks after the incident. Prostitution on "Pay Day Stakes", if you ask me. She was a scuzball, anyways.
I had a friend that got convicted of Rape, because he wouldn't pay his bill (to another soldier, in the same section). She said she "didn't know it was rape at the time". So, she filed the complaint two weeks after the incident. Prostitution on "Pay Day Stakes", if you ask me. She was a scuzball, anyways.
Nickle,not that what I think they did was right,but I really don't think PFC England has the brain cells to think for herself.
She does strike me as being dumb. I'd bet it was "Monkey see, monkey do", and the CIA (or Army Intel) interrogators will never get charged for their role. But then, they aren't dumb enough to brag about it, are they?
I did know you didn't condone what they did.
I did know you didn't condone what they did.
I think it was CIA interogaters,but I might be wrong,and we know they definately will not own up to their part. We also know they play by different rules too.
Or any Officers involved will just get their hand slapped. [evil]
MrsWildweasel said:
The Army Guard 2 star that was in charge of the prisons got relieved, right out of the military, IIRC. And she didn't have DIRECT knowledge of what was happening. She should've known, though, that's why she got the axe. She was clearly incompetent, like MOST officers, outside Combat Arms.
