LTC renewal rant...guess how long it took.

[terrapin88]

So my LTC expired in August. After paying an NRA cert instructor to watch me fire 12 rounds from the pistol I've been carrying around with me since I bought it 4 years ago and being deemed proficient I went on down to the Barnstable, MA PD in mid July and wasted my time going through the rest of their new annoying renewal procedure. I got my pic taken, answered the questions for the forms, paid my 100 bucks and was told I'd hear from them when it was ready.

I just yesterday picked up my new LTC! Almost 5 months to the day from applying. The 90 day grace period they were so generous to give us (which by the way was useless as I could not purchase ammo or any firearms during that time) had expired the week before turkey day. I called twice a week for the last month hoping for some answers and was repeatedly told it's on the LT's desk awaiting his sign off. I asked the clerk if there was a provision for someone in my situation who had yet to receive his LTC renewal and was past the 90 day grace period. I own quite a few firearms and technically was unlicensed for about a month. The licensing clerk said just don't get pulled over or arrested with a gun on me. huh? I suppose that could be considered sound advice, right? [roll]

Is it just me or is this just plain ridiculous? BTW, what is up with this pin number crap now? Like I need another password or pin floating around in my head. If you can't produce the pin when buying ammo or a firearm then no sale.

the only bright spot is the LTC is good for 6 years now which hopefully will be enough time for us to sell our home and put MA in the rearview mirror for good.

Sorry for my first post to be a rant but I needed to vent and I figure alot of folks on here could relate.

Thanks
C-

 

[matt]

Welcome! Sorry you had such a hard time.

I've been waiting 5 weeks so far for my first LTC... Hope I don't have to wait as long as you did!!

 

[Jeremiah]

Fill this out and fax it in to GOAL (508 393 5222). Console yourself with the thought that some day someone will successfully sue MA and you'll get $7.18 from the class-action lawsuit.

I heard that the PIN number is for use in case that laser-scanned finger gets mangled horribly in an accident. You're purchasing power won't be compromised. You don't need to know it now, just keep it on file.

 

[tele_mark]

I'm sorry your experience was so bad. I'm in Leominster, and got my first time LTC in 24 calendar days. You might want to concider a move to Leominster, one of the nicest towns in Southern New Hampshire, unlike Nashua, one of the worst towns in Massachusetts......

 

[Lynne]

Welcome to the forum terrapin88, and you're in good company. We commiserate with you.

 

[second]

hey terrapin
dont feel so bad, it took me 6 months! cant wait to say bye bye to this socialist hellhole. especially if tommy boy becomes our governor eeeek

 

[terrapin88]

Thanks for the warm welcome guys. The clerk told me I MUST have my pin number to purchase guns N ammo. I don't doubt she is misinformed as nobody at that place seems to have a clue. IIRC, when I first applied for an LTC it was about a month. I just can't understand what takes 5 months to check on to be sure i can be trusted with a weapon. Anyway, I wrote my pin on the license against the clerks urging. Her argument was "what if someone steals your license and then they have your pin"
Gee, I thought that's why it has my fingerprint and picture on it? Whatever. I'm just so tired of MA. I should have never come back here.

God help us all if that buffon AG gets into the gov's office.

On a lighter note, it looks like a good range day!

C-

 

[Scrivener]

"So my LTC expired in August.... I went on down to the Barnstable, MA PD in mid July..."

Mistake No. 1. Your app should have been FILED 2 months before your expiration date.

"I got my pic taken, answered the questions for the forms, paid my 100 bucks and was told I'd hear from them when it was ready."

Mistake # 2. Did you complete the form at home and KEEP a copy? Doesn't sound like it. Did you have them date-stamp that copy and/or pay by check to prove WHEN you filed? That sounds doubtful as well.

"I called twice a week for the last month hoping for some answers and was repeatedly told it's on the LT's desk awaiting his sign off."

Mistake # 3. Why are you wasting time on undocumented and obviously worthless phone calls instead of going down and asking to SEE the officer stalling your renewal?

Yes, you were jerked off, but you aided and abetted your tormentors by allowing it. If you were so worried, how is it you did so little?

 

[MikeD]

Mistake No. 1. Your app should have been FILED 2 months before your expiration date.

I don't think it really matters, on my last renewal I submitted 2 months prior and still waited 3 months after the expiration date before I finally received it.

 

[Skald]

I'd have to agree with Scrivener on waiting a month before its up for renewal. Face it, this state is just beaurocratic ********.

Also, I'm learning the hard way to document things like this. I mean, if you have documents It all comes down to he-said he-said and if things look like you are legitmately being jerked around, take a guess who's word the judge will take over yours unless you got proof.

Though I still have another 4 yrs before I have to renew, I am actually hoping to be out of this state by then and not have to worry about it.

 

[MrsWildweasel]

Took me 9 months to the day for my last renewal.

 

[Scrivener]

"I don't think it really matters, on my last renewal I submitted 2 months prior and still waited 3 months after the expiration date before I finally received it."

Well, that was YOUR choice. The PD is obligated to submit prints w/i 7 days of receiving the app; the app is deemed denied if not acted on after 40 days. You have 90 days to file the appeal.

Your inertia helps their obstructionism.

 

[terrapin88]

It's not so much that the waiting period was some horrible torture. I did miss a few sweet deals because of not having a valid LTC for a few months and that's never feels good but basically I am PO'd because these new regs are just more baggage to lug and hoops to leap through to renew something I've had for years. Why make it more of a PITA? Because MA hates guns and gunowners and was more than happy to make it more of a pain to get or renew a license hoping that many would just say screw it and not bother.

Now I waited till a month before expiration because my GF and I had planned a move to AZ and would have been gone before my LTC ran out. Unfortunately she was diagnosed with a breast cancer that required surgery and hospital time and then a recovery period so moving was no longer an option due to the need for health insurance and the benefits her company provided while she has been out of work. We'll be here until we are sure she is cured and healthy.

The form was filled out at the PD as per the instructions given to me by the licensing office. I did pay by check and my info from the form along with the verbal questions asked by the clerk were input into their system as I stood there and watched.

The officer in question as well as the licensing office have the same hours which do not coincide with my work schedule. So the "worthless phone calls" were my only access to these people. I was able to speak to the LT's voice mail once, but he was never available. Busy doing something important I'm sure.

Anyway Scrivener, thank you for your expert analysis of all my mistakes. I'll try to do better next time.

C-

 

[KMaurer]

"I don't think it really matters, on my last renewal I submitted 2 months prior and still waited 3 months after the expiration date before I finally received it."

Well, that was YOUR choice. The PD is obligated to submit prints w/i 7 days of receiving the app; the app is deemed denied if not acted on after 40 days. You have 90 days to file the appeal.

Your inertia helps their obstructionism.

Of course appealing will almost certainly ensure that getting you new LTC will take even longer and costs a order of magnitude or two more than the current $100. And since it doesn't cost the licensing authority a single cent, there's hardly any incentive for them not to jerk you and everyone else around in the future. As they're obviously not gun-friendly to begin with I doubt that they'd see any down-side to having applicants pay 10-50x as much to get their LTC's.

Ken

 

[dwarven1]

Unfortunately she was diagnosed with a breast cancer that required surgery and hospital time and then a recovery period so moving was no longer an option due to the need for health insurance and the benefits her company provided while she has been out of work. We'll be here until we are sure she is cured and healthy.

Sorry to hear about that; hope her treatment is going well and that she recovers fully.

Anyway Scrivener, thank you for your expert analysis of all my mistakes. I'll try to do better next time.

Just a guess, but I suspect that Scrivener sees so much BS that he tends to get short at folks when he sees the same mistakes being made. As I said, just a guess. Of course, as someone else's sig says, he could just hate everybody.

 

[Scrivener]

"Scrivener sees so much BS that he tends to get short at folks when he sees the same mistakes being made....."

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

ESPECIALLY people who don't fill out the app on their own, keep copies and document their moves.

As for costs to the town - IF town counsel gets involved, it gets expensive and quickly. When the Finance Committee starts seeing these costs again - and again - and AGAIN - the chief will be called in to explain them.

What you tolerate, you validate; what you put up with - YOU DESERVE!

 

[dwarven1]

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

Oh, goody. What's my prize?

 

[Mike508]

Is it just me or is this just plain ridiculous?

Seems it isn't just you terrapin88. Sorry to hear about your, what I believe to be unnecessary, LTC-renewal delay; but, I'm sure glad you posted. When it comes to LTCs and Massachusetts, I'm in uncharted waters; and your posting led to a number of responses that gave me, and everyone else reading, tips on how to survive the process. Thanks [!]

 

[Lynne]

"Scrivener sees so much BS that he tends to get short at folks when he sees the same mistakes being made....."

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

ESPECIALLY people who don't fill out the app on their own, keep copies and document their moves.

Not everyone is blessed with your intelligence level or experience, oh sage. Especially when what they do is due to the direction they receive from the licensing authority. Do please try to keep your sarcasim and "shortness" with folks to a minimum. It's becoming extremely irritating. (and no, I'm not wearing my "Mod" hat, I'm speaking as a member of this forum)

terrapin88 - speaking as a cancer survivor, hun, I hope your GF is on the road to recovery and breaks the speed limits.

 

[Scrivener]

"Not everyone is blessed with your intelligence level or experience, oh sage. Especially when what they do is due to the direction they receive from the licensing authority."

Lynne;

You know FULL WELL that the "licensing authority" is full of it; that the supposed LS is often nothing more than a dispatcher with delusions of grandeur and that the PD's routinely pad the legitimate app with unauthorized, if not expressly prohibited, effluvia. Anyone seeking "direction" should start by actually READING the app and answering the actual questions asked. I can tell you from experience, many don't.

You also know that ALL this has been discussed ad nauseum on this, and pretty much every other, firearms board AND that the horror stories are often set forth in The Outdoor Message. Ignorance is no excuse.

In short, any licensee NOT familiar with the hurdles ahead has made ZERO effort to "grasp the concept" and act affirmatively to protect what little rights we have left. And a licensee who can't be bothered doing the little it takes to check things out w/GOAL or even just reviewing the stickies on this forum is creating his/her own hardships.

In short, one does not have to be a "sage;" merely remotely conscious and concientious. Is that so much to expect? [roll]

 

[dwarven1]

Scrivener,

There are only some 560 subscribers to this forum, and many (dare I say most?) only join GOAL after they get their license. If you read the posts, you'll see that lots of these posters only found NES after they applied for their LTC.

So I, too, would appreciate it if you would lighten up on your tone. You come off like a headmaster scolding a child... and I doubt that Lynne and I are the only ones tired of it.

Why not lighten up? What does it cost you? Nothing. What does it gain you? People who may be grateful for your advice and possibly (dare I say it?) a new friend or two?

As a dear friend of mine used to say, "Always keep your words soft and sweet; you never know when you're going to have to eat them!"

 

[terrapin88]

Thanks for the kind words Lynne, she is doing extremely well considering.

C-

 

[Carguy]

Terrapin88: You GF is in my prayers, hope all goes well.

As for the rest of this subject- What is the earliest one can fill out the paperwork to renew a LTC? How far in advance must we take the "saftey course" for it to be valid at the time of the renewal request? Finally, my 19 year old son is very interested in shooting and we shoot together now but he is unlicensed. As the owner of several weapons, he is a resident of the home where they are stored and if something were to happen to me I understand the state can take my weapons if no one in the home is legal to posess them...is there any advice on the best method to get him a LTC?

 

[MrsWildweasel]

Scrivener, I will say it as a mod if I have to. Lighten up around here and leave the sarcasm at the door. You do not need to turn anyone away from this board because of your attitude. Most people come here seeking knowledge,and where better to get it than here.

Terrapin, my thought and prayers go out to you and your girlfriend. Hope all goes well.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

As for costs to the town - IF town counsel gets involved, it gets expensive and quickly. When the Finance Committee starts seeing these costs again - and again - and AGAIN - the chief will be called in to explain them.
DESERVE!

Questions from someone who has never been to a district court LTC appeal to someone who has:

- Is it common for the chief or his designee to show up at a district court appeal hearing without an attorney?

- If so, do applicants tend to fare any better when this happens?

- What is the track record where the applicant is appealing a LTC approved with restrictions and is asking the court to order it changed to ALP or similar?

- How high up in the court system do applicants have to get before the town starts to spend $$ fighting the appeal?

 

[Scrivener]

I've had chiefs with NO apparent support from town counsel (2 chiefs; 3 appeals) and chiefs who have counsel handle the case from the time of response on and come in w/counsel. The meter starts running as soon as counsel is engaged.

I had one chief try to hide behind a subordinate and a judge who let him - ONCE. I objected at the contempt hearing and again at the full hearing, including some tart remarks in the trial memo. The chief lost; 15 days later the chief appeared - WITHOUT counsel - at another appeal and again lost.

As for appealing where a license is issued, but restricted: Don't bother. You GOT a license; that's all a judge needs to hear. [roll]

 

[Len-2A Training]

As for the rest of this subject- What is the earliest one can fill out the paperwork to renew a LTC? How far in advance must we take the "safety course" for it to be valid at the time of the renewal request? Finally, my 19 year old son is very interested in shooting and we shoot together now but he is unlicensed. As the owner of several weapons, he is a resident of the home where they are stored and if something were to happen to me I understand the state can take my weapons if no one in the home is legal to posess them...is there any advice on the best method to get him a LTC?

Carguy,

I would say 3-4 months in advance is most likely going to ensure you get it in time. Some PDs will refuse your application that early, but most will not. Some chiefs "sit on applications" . . . as Scrivener points out, it's illegal . . . but as LenS points out, there is NO penalty for the chief to do so, thus they can do as they damn well please!

The LAW does NOT require ANY "safety course" after you are initially licensed. If your chief mandates this, only he can answer your question! Reality is that the chief can demand damn near anything that he wants and nobody is about to stop him unless you are willing to pay a good firearms attorney to argue your case for you. Thus, you will pay one way or another.

The law on someone's passing is that the Executor can legally control the firearms for up to 6 months WITHOUT a LTC for purposes of fulfilling the duties of disposing of the decedent's assets. NO FFLs are required and the PD should not be involved. PDs will oftentimes tell you otherwise . . . it pays to read the laws (Fed and State yourself).

Again, is it possible for a PD to meddle in these affairs? Of course they can and only a lawyer can attempt to resolve it, if that happens. I have NO expectations that the local District Court judges will stomp on a local chief for "abuse of power" . . . you have to go much higher in the food chain (mucho $$) to get a truly impartial judge to "maybe read and interpret the law" when it comes to firearms "violations" by local PDs.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

As for appealing where a license is issued, but restricted: Don't bother. You GOT a license; that's all a judge needs to hear. [roll]

Which means that the time to get an attorney to help if you are in an 'iffy" town is before you submit the application.

 

[Len-2A Training]

terrapin,

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your girlfriend for a fast and complete recovery!

 

[SiameseRat]

+1 on the PIN being BS. I've never had to use mine, got my LTC last year. Speaking of which, of the 6 guns I've bought and the thousands of rounds of ammo, I've only had my fingerprint scanned once.

Great new (expensive, time wasting) system you guys dreamed up, Mr. Govt!!!!!