LTC Renewal Grace Period Removes Restrictions?

[MAJoe]

Was replying to a renewal question and reading the MGL:

A license to carry or possess firearms shall be valid, unless revoked or suspended, for a period of not more than 6 years from the date of issue and shall expire on the anniversary of the licensee's date of birth occurring not less than 5 years nor more than 6 years from the date of issue; provided, however, that, if the licensee applied for renewal before the license expired, the license shall remain valid after its expiration date for all lawful purposes until the application for renewal is approved or denied.

Does that read as during the renewal grace period, a LTC with restrictions would be valid for all lawful purposes?

 

[Goliathan]

Sounds pretty risky to me. Even if one gets away with it legally, I don't imagine they'd make friends with their CLEO carrying against restrictions.

The argument could go that the license, as issued, constitutes all lawful purposes. In other words, carrying per restrictions is lawful. Carry outside of that and you're in contravention of the law.

 

[robjax]

could an argument be made that the "all lawful purposes" means the lawful purposes within the restrictions of the original license? Maybe, maybe not. My guess is that your license if restricted will retain only those rights originally granted by the issuing authority.

However, this is a free country...sort of...so anyone in this situation can certainly feel free to test those boundaries and let us all know how it works out.

 

[MAJoe]

Agreed, I wouldn't advocate it either. Then again, I bet the "intention" of the law is as you said and that appears to matter more in MA than what the law actually says.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What they mean in common language is that the expired LTC is valid for everything it was valid for before expiration. It does not mean that any restrictions are lifted during the grace period. Pushing that is a real good way to be deemed unsuitable and getting denied on your renewal.

 

[tuna]

So, if my license expired but I have the receipt for the paperwork, can I purchase a gun? I know the old system allowed carry and buying ammo, but not a new gun. Is this a change?

 

[noxin]

So, if my license expired but I have the receipt for the paperwork, can I purchase a gun? I know the old system allowed carry and buying ammo, but not a new gun. Is this a change?

Yes. Bring the receipt with you as proof of renewal and the FA10 system will just process the registration of the transfer as normal.

 

[Cuz]

Do you have to ask for a receipt when doing your renewal? Or do you get one automatically as part of the renewal process?


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[Len-2A Training]

Do you have to ask for a receipt when doing your renewal? Or do you get one automatically as part of the renewal process?

You better ask for it. Some towns don't give them out and it is an option when they create your online application. [Yes, I know that the law REQUIRES them to give you one, but I KNOW that some towns don't, and there is no penalty on the PD for ignoring the law.]

 

[Valkyrie3]

Was replying to a renewal question and reading the MGL:


Does that read as during the renewal grace period, a LTC with restrictions would be valid for all lawful purposes?

From my experience in Boston, you must renew and book your range date prior to expiration. The grace period applies only to the police dept dragging ass on their end administratively getting you the physical new license. FYI, when booking your range date make sure the officer booking you schedules you BEFORE your current license expires, sometimes they don't pay attention and you will not be protected by the grace period.

 

[MAJoe]

From my experience in Boston, you must renew and book your range date prior to expiration. The grace period applies only to the police dept dragging ass on their end administratively getting you the physical new license. FYI, when booking your range date make sure the officer booking you schedules you BEFORE your current license expires, sometimes they don't pay attention and you will not be protected by the grace period.

Yep. The grace period applies only if you've entered the renewal in MICRS. I believe there's a 90 day grace period only if you miss it.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Yep. The grace period applies only if you've entered the renewal in MICRS. I believe there's a 90 day grace period only if you miss it.

Len2A you mentioned that this changed in 2015 and I'm still not clear on it... it used to be a misdemeanor/fine to carry on an expired license beyond 90 days (whether you renew or not). Does the update mean 90 days, then you're ****ed and can't carry, or 90 days and then subject to a fine as before (if you didn't apply before the expiration date in which case the fine is not applicable)?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len2A you mentioned that this changed in 2015 and I'm still not clear on it... it used to be a misdemeanor/fine to carry on an expired license beyond 90 days (whether you renew or not). Does the update mean 90 days, then you're ****ed and can't carry, or 90 days and then subject to a fine as before (if you didn't apply before the expiration date in which case the fine is not applicable)?

Swatgig (lawyer) found something in the law that surprised me too and helps add to the confusion.

- IFF the PD enters your renewal in MIRCS (something that we don't control) before expiration, the 1/1/15 law change gives you unlimited grace period until your renewal comes thru. By law you can carry (with whatever restrictions existed on the expired LTC), buy and sell FTF (or thru FFL).

- If for any reason the PD does NOT enter your renewal until AFTER expiration, Swatgig found that you still have a 90 day grace period where you can carry as before. MIRCS won't let you buy/sell anything however.

- If you fail to renew or are beyond the grace period the penalty is merely a $$ fine, no jail time. As long as you keep your old expired LTC or FID (even the lifetime ones) you avoid prison for possession w/o a license. This assumes you weren't denied or suspended/revoked however. Lots of people let their old horse-blanket "lifetime" FIDs expire and never bothered to renew under the "new" system in 1998.

 

[EzGoingKev]

Mine expired two weeks ago and I did not realize it until the other day. I went and renewed and was pissed to find out that I cannot carry as until I get my new LTC.

This state sucks.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

This assumes you weren't denied or suspended/revoked however.

But, you can be revoked for failure to file a change of address and not lost the protection.

On Len, here is a brain teaser. Say someone moved to another state, gets jammed up in MA, produces an expired LTC, and beats the rap.

Is there any legal procedure to revoke an expired LTC? Even if the PD or courts seized the expired LTC, the various official reports, court transcripts, etc. would establish the person did indeed have that expired license. Does this mean that a PD loses the "suitability" leverage if someone carries on an expired LTC? Yeah, I know the practicalities, but it makes for an amusing analysis.

 

[Len-2A Training]

No, an expired LTC/FID can't be revoked or suspended. It's a question asked by LE a few times and that was the official answer.

 

[Mike-Mike]

No, an expired LTC/FID can't be revoked or suspended. It's a question asked by LE a few times and that was the official answer.

So it essentially can be used more than once as a get out of jail free card? Interesting, I always thought it was a one time deal for each expired license you have.

 

[Len-2A Training]

So it essentially can be used more than once as a get out of jail free card? Interesting, I always thought it was a one time deal for each expired license you have.

Nothing in MGL makes it a one-time deal.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Nothing in MGL makes it a one-time deal.

I just assumed they would take it.


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[Len-2A Training]

I just assumed they would take it.


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They no doubt would, that's where two things are important:

- an electronic copy of your LTC where you could print a duplicate if ever needed as proof.
- a good Firearms Atty representing you who knows the law!!!

I've posted here a few times about the criminal case where they charged someone on this. After my report was entered as evidence (the attorney was a public defender and admitted to me that he didn't know anything about guns or gun laws), that charge was dropped. BUT the only reason I was involved was that the PI hired knows me personally (we worked together on the PD) and knows that I know my MA gun laws. He told me privately afterwards that if I wasn't in that picture the defendant definitely would have been convicted of a number of non-crimes and sent to state prison!!!!!!!

 

[Sparky123]

Law is just like religion, meaning, people interpret it differently. All licenses to carry are issued without restrictions, it is the chief of police that places the restriction on your license, not the state. And from what I understand those restrictions can only be removed by the chief or you renew you LTC in another city or town. My buddy used to work with this guy who carried all the time on a restricted LTC. He would carry his range bag with him and a few targets everywhere he went. Weddings, funerals, work and vacations. Wherever he went so did his range bag and targets. His logic was simple, if I get stopped I can say I'm coming or going to the range, even though most people know that you can't carry a loaded pistol on your person in public on a restricted LTC. Lord only knows how many people still do this. As far as our right to carry goes, these are desperate times. I guess what I'm trying to say is this, stupid laws make people think and do stupid things.

 

[JAD]

Law is just like religion, meaning, people interpret it differently. All licenses to carry are issued without restrictions, it is the chief of police that places the restriction on your license, not the state. And from what I understand those restrictions can only be removed by the chief or you renew you LTC in another city or town. My buddy used to work with this guy who carried all the time on a restricted LTC. He would carry his range bag with him and a few targets everywhere he went. Weddings, funerals, work and vacations. Wherever he went so did his range bag and targets. His logic was simple, if I get stopped I can say I'm coming or going to the range, even though most people know that you can't carry a loaded pistol on your person in public on a restricted LTC. Lord only knows how many people still do this. As far as our right to carry goes, these are desperate times. I guess what I'm trying to say is this, stupid laws make people think and do stupid things.

The part in red is a deceptive statement at best. A individual with a restricted license may carry within the scope of his or her restriction.
That may (or may not) allow an individual to carry loaded/in public in certain circumstances. To claim otherwise is disingenuous. The important consideration is how the issuing authority defines the restriction. When an individual carries outside the scope of his or her restriction that is when (s)he is subject to revocation and a fine (but not a criminal sanction). The key thing is to know the meaning of any applicable restrictions and to abide by them.

(Obviously, I am not disputing that some people don't over interpret the privileges that their issuing authority allows, like it sounds like your friend did.)