So I am in the process of getting my LTC, i handed in my application about a week ago and im currently waiting for the approval. Anyway, i was recently told that if I had purchased marijuana (not medical) from a dispensary, that it would be a reason for my LTC application to be denied. I was curious if this was true or if anyone could help me out. Thank you.
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LTC and buying dispensary marijuana (not medical)
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greencobra
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who told you?
Regardless of the LTC issue (I'd say it's likely "don't ask, don't tell" with regard to suitability), you'd likely have to lie on a 4473. The 4473 background check form very explicitly states that marijuana is federally illegal and it doesn't matter if your state has decriminalized it, you are prohibited from having guns.
So, if you do partake, you're committing perjury on a federal form anytime you buy a gun at a dealer and check the "No" box regarding drug use. Unless your purchase was just "holding it for a friend."
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Do I agree with it? Hell no. But that's the way it is written.
But back to the LTC. I'd say it wouldn't be a stretch for an issuing officer to deny you an LTC if he knew you were either a user or a buyer. Again, as noted above, MJ use makes you a prohibited person. The question would be whether or not the issuing authority actually knew you bought or not (had access to shop records, for example). In that case, the less said the better.
This is also part of the reason GOAL had the campaign around, "If you like having gun rights, be careful of dispensaries and MA legal marijuana" - because it's a bit of a quagmire on the federal level.
Here is the text from the 4473 (background check form):
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Basically one of my GF coworkers had mention to her that if you had purchased marijuana from a dispensary then i wouldn’t be able to obtain a LTC or purchase a gun in that matter. Only reason she had mentioned something to my GF was because she was told by 3 other people that she knows that, that would be the case for herself and I was curious.
So basically i wouldn’t be able to purchase a gun if i had purchased MJ from a dispensary?Regardless of the LTC issue (I'd say it's likely "don't ask, don't tell" with regard to suitability), you'd likely have to lie on a 4473. The 4473 background check form very explicitly states that marijuana is federally illegal and it doesn't matter if your state has decriminalized it, you are prohibited from having guns.
So, if you do partake, you're committing perjury on a federal form anytime you buy a gun at a dealer and check the "No" box regarding drug use. Unless your purchase was just "holding it for a friend."
Do I agree with it? Hell no. But that's the way it is written.
But back to the LTC. I'd say it wouldn't be a stretch for an issuing officer to deny you an LTC if he knew you were either a user or a buyer. Again, as noted above, MJ use makes you a prohibited person. The question would be whether or not the issuing authority actually knew you bought or not (had access to shop records, for example). In that case, the less said the better.
This is also part of the reason GOAL had the campaign around, "If you like having gun rights, be careful of dispensaries and MA legal marijuana" - because it's a bit of a quagmire on the federal level.
What happens in the scenario where I had bought MJ in the past but no longer indulge in the the devil’s lettuce? Am i permanently unable to purchase a gun?
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
So friends of your girlfriend told your girlfriend who in turn told you. Sounds like sound legal advice./s
Read the application form. Your answer lies there.
Bob
Apply for a firearms license
Jason Flare
NES Member
“...unlawful user” is present tense.
If, in the past, you bought marijuana for a friend and are not currently using marijuana you could answer “no” on the 4473 and buy a gun.
I am not a lawyer.
greencobra
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whoever has not smoked dope "in the past" raise your hand. any retired hippies here?
There's the literal and practical stuff to differentiate here. I'd say literally purchasing at a dispensary wouldn't make you prohibited since the question asks if you're a user or addicted to it. But, it's circumstantial evidence (i.e., most people don't buy marijuana from a dispensary to throw in a compost heap or make clothing--they buy it to use it for its consciousness-altering characteristics).
So, on the literal level it's not a crime/prohibiter (in MA anyway) to possess it, and you wouldn't be lying on the form if you don't use it. But, if you do use it, then yes, you're not legally supposed to buy guns or possess them.
I've seen this debated a few times. I'd argue that once you're no longer a "user" or "addict" of the prohibited substance, you are no longer prohibited.
To circle back to the LTC, the issuing authority has fairly large discretion. It's possible if he or she knew you bought from a dispensary, they could deny you an LTC. But if they don't know, they cannot factor this into their decision.
To sum up:
- Possessing/owning guns: if you used in the past but don't use now, most would say you're good to go
- LTC issuance: the less you say the better. but it's possible you could get denied on suitability grounds
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
Read the freaking forms. Join GOAL (Gun Owners Action League). There is also a lot of good info there.
BTW there is more than one way to buy a gun.
Bob
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
I know of people with marijuana CWOF on their records and they have the LTC. No problem. That would seem to indicate that you can declare that you are no longer a user and it is accepted.
In fact I even know of a cop who was busted for weed and got CWOF while in high school. Didn't seem to be a problem there.
Generally I agree, but with the caveats that I believe it is a felony to possess firearms and controlled substances simultaneously, if I recall that's one of the things Adam Kokesh got charged with. So while he wouldn't have to lie on a 4473 if he went private sale, it doesn't resolve the LTC issue (if his issuing authority denies him an LTC for previous use) nor does it make a private sale not a felony if he is still a user of a prohibited substance.
LTC is a state issue, and if you used marijuana before it was decriminalized... then they MAY have grounds to deny, but most departments have given up that war and have accepted past marijuana use without penalty. Dealing would be a different story.
Cripes courts are wiping out Pot convictions that were for amounts related to personal use.
Like some people in MA that have managed to get FID's issued but are Federally prohibited persons, there is a grey area since the Feds are still fighting the war on Pot, even though (31?) states have either legalized it, decriminalized it, or allow for medical use.
I would NOT want to be the test case for lying on a form 4473, so if you get your LTC, buy private party on a FA-10 if you are concerned.
So remember, any pot usage is illegal to the Feds, at the state level it is on a state by state basis.... look at MA vs NH.... kids are getting busted in Salem NH because they get pulled over, the cop smells pot, the kid goes it is legal, and the local goes " boy, you ain't in Massachusetts anymore"
Cripes courts are wiping out Pot convictions that were for amounts related to personal use.
Like some people in MA that have managed to get FID's issued but are Federally prohibited persons, there is a grey area since the Feds are still fighting the war on Pot, even though (31?) states have either legalized it, decriminalized it, or allow for medical use.
I would NOT want to be the test case for lying on a form 4473, so if you get your LTC, buy private party on a FA-10 if you are concerned.
So remember, any pot usage is illegal to the Feds, at the state level it is on a state by state basis.... look at MA vs NH.... kids are getting busted in Salem NH because they get pulled over, the cop smells pot, the kid goes it is legal, and the local goes " boy, you ain't in Massachusetts anymore"
Yes, my general opinion and understanding is that you cease to be a prohibited person when you cease being a "user" or "addict" of the substance.
However, it still boils down to what his local issuing authority uses for his suitability factors. Again, I'd stress "the less you say the better" about the topic. Unless the issuing authority somehow already knows (maybe you run into the cop at the dispensary each week when you're both restocking, lol), then he or she can't use that information against you when deciding.
Long story short, I'd say unless OP puts his foot in his mouth, he'll be OK, provided he is not a "user or addict" presently.
if would make you a prohibited person under fed law. But that assumes the recreational databases are being linked to the ATF, which they're not as that would require massive data management. Some day it could happen.
Plus, I mean you lost your wallet and someone used your stolen driver's license at the weed emporium, so it wasn't even you.
Not really. The question is in the present tense. If you smoked weed yesterday but "quit" overnight then you can "truthfully" answer no, you are not currently a user of....
A first year law student could shred that question.
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.
My hands up.
I have honestly never smoked dope or anything like that.
My career in the army was too valuable to me to piss hot.....and honestly I think it's a total f***ing waste of time and money. But that's just me.
I'll defend anyone's right to smoke whatever the hell they want on their time. Just not while your working for me and are on the job.
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
You check "no" and buy your weed on the street. No problem. Jack.
"Someone" told me that the dispensaries report all sales to the Feds. I'm curious to see if, in fact, that happens. I recently accompanied someone into a dispensary. They asked for my license and scanned it. When the person I was with made his purchase, they did not scan his license. This leads me to believe that they only have a record of people who walked into the store, but not necessarily people who have purchased their product.
I seriously doubt they report the sales to the Feds, since that would incriminate the seller.
Who is to say that I didn't buy the electric lettuce for a friend? Mass law allows you to give away up to an ounce, so maybe I bought a joint for my girlfriend. That doesn't make me an illegal user, or addict. The form doesn't ask if I sell or give it away, only if I illegally use it.
I seriously doubt they report the sales to the Feds, since that would incriminate the seller.
Who is to say that I didn't buy the electric lettuce for a friend? Mass law allows you to give away up to an ounce, so maybe I bought a joint for my girlfriend. That doesn't make me an illegal user, or addict. The form doesn't ask if I sell or give it away, only if I illegally use it.
PaulR
NES Member
I do not partake.
However, I would like the option to partake if I wanted to.
I do not, and will not patronize these "stores" as such, since I have a MA unrestricted LTC.
I will not take the risk of having my information in a database such as what these stores may keep, for what laws (literally) may be coming down the pike.
All this poop is brand new, and I think whomever tells you they know what is going to happen down the road with regard to buying marijuana and possessing an LTC is lying. Unfortunately.
Just my opinion.
However, I would like the option to partake if I wanted to.
I do not, and will not patronize these "stores" as such, since I have a MA unrestricted LTC.
I will not take the risk of having my information in a database such as what these stores may keep, for what laws (literally) may be coming down the pike.
All this poop is brand new, and I think whomever tells you they know what is going to happen down the road with regard to buying marijuana and possessing an LTC is lying. Unfortunately.
Just my opinion.
Anyone can tell you that there's a difference between committing a crime and being caught, yes.
I'm sure the number of people that have a true faith "overnight renunciation" of Federally unlawful drugs within 24 hours of filling out a 4473 is statistically irrelevant.
MisterHappy
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