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LTC-A restricted to "target"?

rosefox911

rosefox911

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I am in Brookline, I just got confirmation that I would be receiving a LTC-A with a restriction for "target" purposes. Despite showing several receipts that I am forced to handle large sums of money for my small business, I was restricted to just target shooting. My question is, what do you think my chances of appealing this decision are?


My understanding is this restriction limits me to carrying to and from the range, right? No other purpose?


I am really bummed out by this, so any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks!
 
Welcome to the world of MA arbitrary licensing. You can appeal it but you're just going to spend a lot of money for nothing. The CoP has the final say.

The restriction means whatever the CoP wants it to mean. Ask for a letter spelling out the restriction. You may or may not get a letter defining th restriction. I'm sorry but in MA you are at the mercy of your overlords. You voted for it, now you have to live with it.
 
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If by carrying you mean unloaded in a locked box, then yes, you can carry.

-Proud to be dad every day, a licensed plumber most days, and wish I was a shoemaker on others.
 
Only 1/3 of the Brookline LTC holders are fortunate enough to have a unrestricted LTC - and this includes the LTCs issued to police, former police, powerful members of society, important people, etc. An appeal at the district court level is a longshot at best, and even taking that longshot will require competent legal counsel.
 
The cheapest way to get an unrestricted LTC that is valid in Brookline is to have residency in a town that isn't Brookline.

-Mike
 
Hopefully, my friend, you are seeing the reality of how hopelessly difficult our politicians have made it for good, law abiding citizens to protect themselves. Now the ball is in your court.Will you choose to simply sit silent or will you step up and get these politicians fired?
 
Davis v grimes may provide a ray of hope. But yes, you won't be able to excercise your second amendment right to bear arms in certain towns run by power tripping chief wiggums. Sucks.
 
Hey guys,

Thanks for the info. I knew it was a long shot. But just thought I'd ask. I unfortunately have a real need for a concealed carry permit. (see below for explanation).

If so, could I also do some business along my way to the range? The reason I ask is because, I am currently working on a masters. I also work 7 days a week, with no set times (i often work from 8 am to 2 am)for my small business (software development). Because I own the business, when clients send me money (between 3 to 4 digits) I have to pick it up ASAP. Sometimes, because of time restraints, I am forced to pick the money up from western union in sketchy areas (i.e. Roxbury and Dorchester). So could I just pick up the money while on my way to the range while carrying concealed?

TLDR: My question is, am I allowed to conceal carry to and from the range and make some small stops on the way?
 
I don't believe you can even carry to and from the range. Must be in a locked container or locked trunk. Better check with the PD first.
 
TLDR: My question is, am I allowed to conceal carry to and from the range and make some small stops on the way?
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I doubt it, but my understanding is that it is up to Chief Wiggum. And the advice we often see is that it is best to get the restrictions clarified in writing. The Chief may want you going to the range with your handgun locked in a case and not on your hip.

The Jaguar beat me to it. Fast cat. [grin]
 
rosefox911 said:
TLDR: My question is, am I allowed to conceal carry to and from the range and make some small stops on the way?
Click to expand...

ONLY your chief knows for sure. Ask him to put it in writing. Fat chance you'll get it, but that is the only way to be sure what you can do other than carry it in a locked container (unloaded of course).

Every town is different wrt their interpretation of "can I carry to/from <restriction here>"!
 
LenS said:
ONLY your chief knows for sure. Ask him to put it in writing. Fat chance you'll get it, but that is the only way to be sure what you can do other than carry it in a locked container (unloaded of course).

Every town is different wrt their interpretation of "can I carry to/from <restriction here>"!
Click to expand...


Len,

Do you think a printed response to an email would be sufficient? I am just thinking you might be able to get him to respond to an email before you could get him to actually put a stamp on something.
 
Worcester telegram last year

On Wednesday, I wrote a column supporting what I believe to be Worcester Police Chief Gary Gemme's judicious approach to handing out gun licenses. A number of readers thought I missed the mark, suggesting that the chief's policy was overly restrictive.

Some noted, for example, that while the state says a felony conviction or misdemeanor conviction punishable by more than two years in prison disqualifies a person from getting a license to carry, the Worcester policy can potentially disqualify a person just on the basis of a felony or misdemeanor arrest.

Readers also noted that in Worcester a person can be denied an LTC if arrested for a domestic issue, or a DUI and affiliation with a person or group with a known criminal issue.

I still stand by my opinion of the chief's policy, but I thought it would be worthwhile to have him speak a little deeper about who qualifies as a “suitable person,” to carry and used a firearm.

Here are some excerpts from my conversations with the chief:

Q: It might be instructive if you were able to share your philosophical approach to issuing LTCs in Worcester, the reasons why you would restrict one person's use while providing unrestrictive use to another.

A: I believe we need to do everything we legally can do to limit the number of guns that are available in the community. This is a public safety imperative that drives our three-pronged strategy (gun buyback program, focusing resources on well known, violent offenders and their associates, and the city's LTC policy).

By identifying unsuitable individuals we keep firearms out of the hands of people who should not have them and by placing reasonable restrictions on an LTC we limit the times and places those gun can be legally carried.

Q: One reader ... suggested that in Worcester the unrestrictive (LTC) category is further marginalized with such designations as “self protection” only.

A: A LTC for personal protection does not have restrictions. A restriction on LTC would be sporting, target, employment, etc.

A person with an LTC for personal protection could use the firearm for sporting, target shooting, employment, and carry it on their person twenty-four seven. A person with a restriction would be limited to specific designations. For example, a LTC for sporting or target shooting would prohibit that individual from having their weapon on their person at 2 a.m. when they are drinking in a bar.

Q: Is it possible for an applicant to have committed one or more of these (local) disqualifying actions and still receive an LTC?

A: When I review an application for an LTC, I examine all the available reports, affidavits, statements, pictures and documents that are available. Every applicant has a unique history and each case is decided on the facts and circumstances that are available.

Without being too specific, a report of a fistfight 10 years ago between friends that was dismissed in court is different from a 10-year-old domestic assault where the investigating officer documented severe head injuries to the victim and medical treatment was provided, but the case was dismissed.

Q: It would seem that ... not all misdemeanor arrests ... are weighted the same in your judgment.

A: You are correct in that not all incidents can be viewed in the same light. Their are facts that are specific to each case that when you look at the totality of the information a decision is made as to suitability.

Q: Given that the possession of a small amount of marijuana in Massachusetts has been decriminalized, could a person who is fined for (possessing) an ounce or less of marijuana be disqualified for an LTC in Worcester.

A: A person that was arrested for a small amount of marijuana would not be summarily disqualified from obtaining an LTC.

Q: As you know, kids can't choose their siblings and parents can't always prevent their children from acting stupidly or criminally. As such, could an LTC be denied to a person who grew up in a home with a sibling who is a felon, or to a parent who has a child with a criminal history?

A: Same as with marijuana, a person with a clean record would not be disqualified because of their relationship with a person with a criminal record.

There would need to be some other factual information that would justify a finding of being an unsuitable person for an LTC. The point to remember is that the licensing authority cannot be arbitrary, capricious or abuse their authority. Every applicant denied has the right to a hearing in District Court.
 
ONLY your chief knows for sure.
Click to expand...
The courts will decide if the civil sanction ($1000 - $10,000 penalty) will be applied for a violation, however, the is almost never done.

The issuing chief will decide if the LTC is to be suspended or revoked, with the avenue of appeal being the same longshot district court hearing.
 
Technically, only the licensing officer can tell you what your restriction means. A "target" restriction is a subjective description and is not defined in writing or in law anywhere.

Generally, a "target" restriction means no concealed carry, anywhere. You can only transport your guns outside the home when going to and from the range, and they must be unloaded and locked. That is the definition used by most PDs, buy again, you need to hear it directly from the horse's mouth (Brookline CoP).

If you need to appeal, you need to contact a lawyer and/or Comm 2A.
 
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I was also curious, with a LTC-A with a target restriction, am I allowed to go hunting as long as I get a hunting license? It seems to be that a restricted LTC is just a way to deny someone their rights through a legal loophole. Make it so hard to get its nearly impossible.
 
rosefox911 said:
I was also curious, with a LTC-A with a target restriction, am I allowed to go hunting as long as I get a hunting license? It seems to be that a restricted LTC is just a way to deny someone their rights through a legal loophole. Make it so hard to get its nearly impossible.
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Well, seeing as just about the only critter you can hunt in Mass with a handgun is Black Bear and you have to use a revolver chambered in 357 or larger, it is kind of a moot point.

http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/dfg/dfw/laws-regulations/plain-lang-sum/hunting-with-handguns.html.

But I thought there was a bear in Newton or something last year. [thinking]


You can buy and hunt with a long gun with your hunting license.
 
fencer said:
Well, seeing as just about the only critter you can hunt in Mass with a handgun is Black Bear and you have to use a revolver chambered in 357 or larger, it is kind of a moot point.

http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/dfg/dfw/laws-regulations/plain-lang-sum/hunting-with-handguns.html.

But I thought there was a bear in Newton or something last year. [thinking]


You can buy and hunt with a long gun with your hunting license.
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Well, I would get a shotgun :)

I just meant if I could with a restricted ltc-a.
 
If you could (have the money to do so) I would fight this in court. Because its a complete disregard for your 2A RIGHT. I would not stand for it, if you have the money hire a good attorney who knows firearms law.
 
In the Davis vs grimes docs they seem to acknowledge the ability to carry to and from the range. If one were from Weymouth or Danvers or one of the other towns. Would that be enough?

Here, although Plaintiffs have been granted a Class A License To Carry Firearms, they contend that the “Target & Hunting” restriction imposed by the local police chiefs “prohibit them from carrying and using handguns for the purpose of self-defense and thereby deprive Plaintiffs of their right to keep and bear arms.” Amended Comp., ¶59. However, as evident from the decisions in Heller and McDonald, this was not the intention of the Supreme Court when it interpreted the scope of the Second Amendment and made it applicable to the states. To the contrary, McDonald did not disturb the Heller pronouncement and precisely made clear that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” Heller, supra at 626. Moreover, as Plaintiffs concede, the “Target & Hunting” restriction does not prohibit them from owning and using firearms at home and/or while they are traveling to-and-from their chosen activity, i.e. target shooting or hunting. See Stipulated-To Joint Statement of Facts (“SOF”), No. 8.
 
Well, you need to be packing all the time cuz you never know when you gonna have to 'target practice' on bad guys who try to rob you, wouldn't you think?
 
rosefox911 said:
Am I allowed, within my home (or apartment), to defend myself even with a restricted LTC-A? I assume I can do this even with a FID.
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Yes! Yes you can! and not only to defend yourself but anybody in your house. If you fear you attacker will cause death or great bodily harm. However, you would not want to shoot a guy walking out the front door with your flatscreen.

But be advised, even if it is a good shoot, life as you know it will get very difficult and very very expensive
 

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