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All rifles are 8 MOA guns with iron sites off hand.This is where expectations come into play.
Hand someone a rifle and say it's a 8moa gun and whether or not they can actually shoot to 8moa or not it does not sound good to most.
Now I see lots of people perfectly happy shooting 25 and 50 yards into toroso size targets and hitting it somewhere and that's OK for them.
On good days I can keep it under 5 but yes average shooter 8moa is about right.All rifles are 8 MOA guns with iron sites off hand.