Long Range Shooting

[ghz]

Hi,

I have only been on a range once (just getting started), but how do you guys hit anything so far away? The range I was at only went out to 25 yards, but I see many of you getting shots at >100. I could barely see what I was shooting at at 25, so how do you do it? Do you have special sights or something?

Thanks,

-G

 

[Danrk6]

First what were you shooting? Pistol? Rifle?

Although it is possible to hit a target at 100 yards with a pistol you have to be very very good. The shots you are looking at on the forums are shot with a rifle, usually with some good optics on them. Iron sights just take a little more skill to reach out and touch something the farther down range you go. Like you said, ability to see the target is always a contributing factor to a shooters potential with irons.

 

[Nickle]

If you want to learn how to shoot a rifle Full Distance, get yourself to an Appleseed or two, then when an Appleseed comes around at Jericho, VT again, go.

Now, remember that I consider 500 yards or less Full Distance, and 600 yards up Long Distance.

We were shooting out to 400 yards this past weekend, at Jericho. Sometimes, we even get out to 600 yards.

 

[USMA-82]

The only insight I can give you is based on my experience shooting Highpower rifle competition. The sights, of course, are adjustable for both windage and elevation - so you can set those to account for greater range and bullet drop, as well as the effects of wind.

Even a gentle breeze can sent the bullet WAY off target at longer distances.

The thing that really makes a difference is the design of the targets themselves. When you look at the sight picture at 200 yards, the bulleye is approximately the width of the front sight. When you move back to 300 and finally 600 yards, the targets are correspondingly larger - that is, even at the greater distances, the bullseye still appears to be the width of the front sight. This consistent sight picture (along with knowledge of the elevation adjustment and accounting for wind effects) allows you to shoot fairly accurately at longer distances.

Add to that - knowing your rifle, knowing your ammo characteristics, and alot of practice.

*

 

[M1911]

I have only been on a range once (just getting started), but how do you guys hit anything so far away? The range I was at only went out to 25 yards, but I see many of you getting shots at >100. I could barely see what I was shooting at at 25, so how do you do it? Do you have special sights or something?

Equipment, practice, and training. Large targets help, too. The 600 yard service rifle target is about 5' square, and the bull is 36" diameter. Of course, when using iron sights, the apparent size of the bull is narrower than your front sight.

But it isn't that hard with a reasonable AR15. My wife is relatively inexperienced and has probably fired less than 1000 rounds in her entire life. But she still hit the X a couple times at the 600 yard line, using AR15 with iron sights and sling, during a service rifle clinic at Reading. The rifle she was using was a Colt AR15 -- nothing fancy on it other than a match grade trigger and a narrower front sight post.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

Which range do you go to? Also, who have you gone with? I'm sure someone on here could give you pointers depending on which club you're looking to go to.

 

[JohnFH]

Check out here if your interested in long distance 600-800-1000 yd stuff.
http://www.usrifleteams.com/lrforum/
You need to sign up, but the information is worth the effort.
I shoot a Savage 12FVSS 308 with a Weaver T36 scope in "F" class

 

[Kalahari]

You may be surprised how well you can shoot as a beginner with a decent rifle and good training.

 

[ghz]

I was shooting at American Firearms School. I used a .22 long rifle and a (I think) Romanian SKS. I had trouble seeing the bullseye at 25 yards even with my glasses on. I didn't have any optics and I was holding it with 2 hands (no stand). I really can't imagine how small the bullseye must be at >100 yards, nor how difficult is must be to aim when a few millimeters drift (e.g. when your arm sways a bit) throws you way off target! :0

 

[wahsben]

In general especially when using iron sights the longer the distance the larger the target so you can still see it but the longer the distance the more proper form, breathing, trigger control, movement control etc. come into play.

 

[Twigg]

Take Nickle's advice, Appleseed teaches the fundamentals of marksmanship.

Most events run on weekends, You'll get the most out of attending both days, but if you can only attend one day, I'd suggest Saturday.

There may even be loaner rifles available.

 

[Kalahari]

In general especially when using iron sights the longer the distance the larger the target so you can still see it but the longer the distance the more proper form, breathing, trigger control, movement control etc. come into play.

What he said. Your tiny mistakes are magnified the further you are from the target.

 

[cockpitbob]

You may be surprised how well you can shoot as a beginner with a decent rifle and good training.

Yup. I took a freind with very little shooting experience to a match here in CA where we start at 200yrds and work our way out to 1,000. I shot next to him and gave him guidance on setting the sight elevation and windage hold and he was on paper until 800yrds and made a few hits at 900 and 1K (of course the paper is 6 feet wide).

 

[M1911]

I was shooting at American Firearms School. I used a .22 long rifle and a (I think) Romanian SKS. I had trouble seeing the bullseye at 25 yards even with my glasses on. I didn't have any optics and I was holding it with 2 hands (no stand). I really can't imagine how small the bullseye must be at >100 yards, nor how difficult is must be to aim when a few millimeters drift (e.g. when your arm sways a bit) throws you way off target! :0

The 100 yard plus targets are larger. But, yes, your form is very important at longer ranges.

 

[RKG]

At the risk of grossly oversimplifying a subject that is marvellously complex, long range rifle shooting comes down to the following prerequisites:

1) A solid base of rifle marksmanship skills, which for my money means a lot of rounds through a decent .22 target rifle, at 50 and 100 yards.

2) An acceptable long range centerfire rifle, which basically means a bolt action, either single-shot or magazine-fed (but you'll single load, anyhow), with a rigid stock, a free-floated barrrel, and a decent trigger.

3) Reliable optical sights and mounts.

4) Enough time and energy spent developing a good load for your particular rifle. All rifles are a bit different, and what shoots for someone else's rifle may not shoot in your rifle of the same caliber. This means experimenting with different bullets, powders, charges, and seating depths.

5) A fair amount of time spent developing, studying and understanding ballistic tables, including drift tables.

Items 2, 3 and 4 basically reduce the machine-induced variability. Items 1 and 5 tend to reduce shooter shot-to-shot variation.

I guess somewhere in my list should have been a decent budget, as this isn't plinking and can't be done on a plinking budget. On the other hand, there are available today some pretty amazing out-of-the-box rifles, primarily made by Savage.

If you elect to go down this road, do it methodically, and stick with it, you'll be amazed at what you can do. The other day, after completing some load development firing, I had three rounds left over. There was a freshly painted steel that had been hung on a frame at 300 yards, and I couldn't resist. The result was three rounds in a 1-1/2" circle. And there are guys who can do far better than that.

 

[Jose]

Buy this book. It seems expensive until you realize the treasure trove of information in it that will make you a deadly rifleman if you apply yourself.

In addition, go to an Appleseed event and compete in local NRA Highpower Rifle matches. With those three items, you will become a competent rifleman.

 

[Kalahari]

Yup. I took a freind with very little shooting experience to a match here in CA where we start at 200yrds and work our way out to 1,000. I shot next to him and gave him guidance on setting the sight elevation and windage hold and he was on paper until 800yrds and made a few hits at 900 and 1K (of course the paper is 6 feet wide).

I had the fortune of being coached by Bob Ward during my first or second time ever shooting an AR-15 at the RR&R. I shot a 99-5X in rapid prone. A mixture of beginner's luck (this was big)/good coaching/good rifle/.22 target shooting experience. But let's not talk about off-hand/kneeling

 

[pramos03]

Well I think the first problem is that you have only been on a range once. I’m not trying to be a wise ass, but the more you shoot the better you will get. Some kind of shooting stand or bench will also greatly improve your accuracy. Did u try squinting? lol jk

 

[gerrycaruso]

Are you talking about handgun or rifle shooting and what distance?

 

[Patriot]

I just got finished reading a book Fixxah loaned me. The name of it is The Precision
Shooting Reloading Guide. These guys 'discuss' about how big the hole isn't when
shooting five shot groups at a 1000 yards. Yes, that's right, I said hole, singular.
I was blown away reading that book.

The Precision Shooting Reloading Guide
By: Precision Shooting Columnists - Edited by: Dave Brennan
Price: $22.95 (5 1/2" x 8 1/2 " Spiral Bound - 284 pages)

A reloading manual like no other, now in its forth printing. Chapters authored by champion shooters on: Reloading for Extreme Accuracy, Highpower (Bolt Guns), Highpower (Gas Guns), Benchrest, Magnums, Wildcats, Cast Bullets, and working up an accuracy load.

NOTE tells how to reload; does not give loads for individual cartridges.

 

[cekim]

These guys 'discuss' about how big the hole isn't when
shooting five shot groups at a 1000 yards. Yes, that's right, I said hole, singular.
...
NOTE tells how to reload; does not give loads for individual cartridges.

Ammo becomes quite critical long before that distance...

 

[PatMcD]

Buy this book. It seems expensive until you realize the treasure trove of information in it that will make you a deadly rifleman if you apply yourself.

In addition, go to an Appleseed event and compete in local NRA Highpower Rifle matches. With those three items, you will become a competent rifleman.

Jose's recommendation of Randolph Constantine's book is a good one. I have a well-used copy that I loan out to new shooters all the time.
I still pull new info out of there every time I look through it.

 

[Nickle]

A scope required for "Long Range"?

Well, I could argue that one, and easily win.

Locally speaking, this past Memorial Day weekend, we had one of our younger (13) Appleseed Instructors zero his M1 Garand at 25 meters, then click in the standard "come-ups" to take it to 500 yards. He shot at a steel target, about the size of an IDPA sihlouette. First shot hit.

Rack grade (as issued) M1, ammo that's equivalent to USGI issue M2 Ball (may have been Lake City M2, or Greek equivalent) and definitely iron sights.

This past weekend, we were shooting out to 400 yards at Jericho. Most of the shooters were hitting at 400 yards, some of them shot very respectable scores, and some of them were using irons sights.

Many matches out to 1000 yards have been won using iron sights.

Now, a lot of this boils down to just what you consider long distance. Some folks think 200 yards is. Others 400. Some 500. I say 600 and up, because the stated maximum effective range for most modern battle rifles is about 500 yards. Therefore 500 and under would be normal distance.

Consider this. I'm now 54 years old. Been wearing glasses since I was in 2nd grade (should've been wearing them before that). I can get significant hits with a rack grade AR (think as-issued M16A1 and M16A2) out to 300 yards, and normally can easily do it.

I'm nothing special. Yes, I teach marksmanship, but I was shooting well long before I was teaching it.

I did that during annual weapons with the Army Guard. When I was in Boot Camp (1972), we had to shoot out to 400 yards, and that was doable as well.

Here's some records to consider:

http://internationalbenchrest.com/download/Record Posters/LongRange2009.pdf

Those are definitely scoped rifles, under .40 caliber, the Light guns are limited to 17 pounds, the Heavy guns have no weight limit.

I'm telling you, it isn't as hard as folks make it out to be. Being good at it requires some training and a LOT of practice, I'll concede that.

And, pay close attention to what Jose is saying, because he's totally right.

 

[Mike S]

it's a bunch of things, Natural point of aim, proper breathing, focusing on the sight post, focusing the sight post on the target, squeezing the trigger properly, following through (just like throwing a football, or hitting a golf ball). Like anything it's easily learned and hard to master.

As Nickle said, attend an Appleseed and your shooting will improve dramatically. Plus you'll learn a bit about American History.

There is one at Harvard Sportsmens Club at the end of August.