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Lockdown Bucket

ToddDubya said:
My sister is a teacher and she has three doors to her room. Only one has a lock and it locks from the outside, with a key. After the last big shooting we were talking about security and I said "If they're serious about safety, how about they spend a couple hundred bucks per room to install deadbolts? You could probably have locksmiths in there tomorrow." She didn't see how that would help :(
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Manual deadbolts or surface locks are specifically "not" permitted on classroom doors, by code. They can be locked, but must allow exiting without unlocking. Was searching for a citation, but I believe classroom doors are required to open (or swing) "out" also (egress codes). So much for that wedge doing anything.
 
Energizer said:
Manual deadbolts or surface locks are specifically "not" permitted on classroom doors, by code. They can be locked, but must allow exiting without unlocking. Was searching for a citation, but I believe classroom doors are required to open (or swing) "out" also (egress codes). So much for that wedge doing anything.
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Nope.

I’ve taught in four different school buildings, including one built within the past five years. Every classroom I’ve been in has had a door that opened inward.
 
Energizer said:
Manual deadbolts or surface locks are specifically "not" permitted on classroom doors, by code. They can be locked, but must allow exiting without unlocking. Was searching for a citation, but I believe classroom doors are required to open (or swing) "out" also (egress codes). So much for that wedge doing anything.
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Classroom doors open inward, not outward. The only outward opening doors in a school are closets, where there is no window.

Friendly doors open in, unfreindly doors open out.

I inspected schools for 25 years and never saw a classroom dorr that opened outward into the hallway. An outward opening door would impede the flow of people already exiting in the hallways.

External doors leading to the outside must have crash bars able to be operated by the stature of your average 5yr old and the door cannot have any external mechanism to lock it from the outside or bind in its opening travel.

Edit to add, "inter classroom doors" open into one room or the other, there is no getting around that, but they cannot be locked on/from either side and must remain completely unobstructed on both sides to facilitate egress from either direction. That means no clutter, no furniture, no locks, no wedges.
 
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Picton said:
Nope.

I’ve taught in four different school buildings, including one built within the past five years. Every classroom I’ve been in has had a door that opened inward.
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Well I guess a few classrooms in four different buildings proves it isn't code, then. I'll use that argument next time I need an inspection from the fire marshal.

Despite the anecdotes, using a wedge is expressly forbidden - even for teachers putting them on the wrong side of the door.

https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2018/01/10/AHH Jan 2018_web.pdf

BTW - Even with the mythical in-swing classroom doors, you could technically not violate the accessible reach range requirements of 521 CMR by putting the wedge between the door and the jamb in the vicinity of the door knob/handle.
 
Energizer said:
Well I guess a few classrooms in four different buildings proves it isn't code, then. I'll use that argument next time I need an inspection from the fire marshal.

Despite the anecdotes, using a wedge is expressly forbidden - even for teachers putting them on the wrong side of the door.

https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2018/01/10/AHH Jan 2018_web.pdf

BTW - Even with the mythical in-swing classroom doors, you could technically not violate the accessible reach range requirements of 521 CMR by putting the wedge between the door and the jamb in the vicinity of the door knob/handle.
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Well.

There’s a post right above yours that might inform you, as well. Seems my doors aren’t entirely mythical.

Listen, I’m not picking fights. The thread is about buckets full of shit for enhanced lockdowns. I’m trained in enhanced lockdowns. I’m just telling you what I know, and not pretending to tell you what I don’t.

Enjoy.
 
Got 'em!!!
1a3fc09d148093c78bf1f740f97de38a.jpg
 
What if the window is not on the ground floor? No ladder in every classroom? Maybe they should just put fire escapes on every window. Or how about just repeal the god damn gun free school zones act so would be shooters can get ventilated before they can start their attack. Oh wait. That would make sense.
 
Peicemaker said:
What if the window is not on the ground floor? No ladder in every classroom? Maybe they should just put fire escapes on every window. Or how about just repeal the god damn gun free school zones act so would be shooters can get ventilated before they can start their attack. Oh wait. That would make sense.
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I would personally jump out of a 3rd story window to avoid an active shooter. If you fingertip down and hang it's only like a 15 foot fall, won't kill you. Options is what makes these situations survivable. You want more than one avenue of escape. Maybe the bucket should have an SBR AND a hammer.
 
whatluck said:
I would personally jump out of a 3rd story window to avoid an active shooter. If you fingertip down and hang it's only like a 15 foot fall, won't kill you. Options is what makes these situations survivable. You want more than one avenue of escape. Maybe the bucket should have an SBR AND a hammer.
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Yup.

The training covers fingertip hangs. Seriously. “Evacuation” is the whole point of ALICE.

Honestly, as an infantry vet guy who has an LTC and teaches, ALICE is the best training I’ve had in awhile. It’s not about throwing staplers at shooters. It’s about thinking flexibly, being situationally aware, and unassing the building. The people who put it together have done some thinking.

Oh, and on the “fire code” argument? Our town fire chief came in during last year’s training. Someone asked about fire codes and he laughed. “Anyone who worries about fire codes during an active shooting incident is an idiot,” he said.

And he was the fire chief.
 
Picton said:
Yup.

The training covers fingertip hangs. Seriously. “Evacuation” is the whole point of ALICE.

Honestly, as an infantry vet guy who has an LTC and teaches, ALICE is the best training I’ve had in awhile. It’s not about throwing staplers at shooters. It’s about thinking flexibly, being situationally aware, and unassing the building. The people who put it together have done some thinking.

Oh, and on the “fire code” argument? Our town fire chief came in during last year’s training. Someone asked about fire codes and he laughed. “Anyone who worries about fire codes during an active shooting incident is an idiot,” he said.

And he was the fire chief.
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Lolololol this guy should be a senator
 
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scatter said:
Seriously...have you ever watched someone who has never used a hammer, use a hammer? My wife has used a hammer many times over the years and she still doesn't get it. They f***ing hold it up at the top of the handle and shove it toward the target, usually missing. f*** the effectiveness of the wedge, and whether it works or not. Those teachers won't even be able to install it. It will be useless. They will miss and bang the wall a couple of times, and smash their fingers a couple of times, and then the shooter will be through the door.

So we can't possibly train teachers to use a gun (because gun), but we can just assume that they can use a hammer and everybody will be fine. Right.
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If I had a hammer. . . . . well, I'd probably hammer in the morning. Possibly in the evening as well.

namedpipes said:
Well rope is MUCH better for fighting off active shooters than STRING!
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tumblr_oh79boBWoI1vilkv8o1_500.gif

lol
 
Picton said:
Yup.

The training covers fingertip hangs. Seriously. “Evacuation” is the whole point of ALICE.

Honestly, as an infantry vet guy who has an LTC and teaches, ALICE is the best training I’ve had in awhile. It’s not about throwing staplers at shooters. It’s about thinking flexibly, being situationally aware, and unassing the building. The people who put it together have done some thinking.

Oh, and on the “fire code” argument? Our town fire chief came in during last year’s training. Someone asked about fire codes and he laughed. “Anyone who worries about fire codes during an active shooting incident is an idiot,” he said.

And he was the fire chief.
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Yup, and that will be the sentiment if and when a deadbolt was used on a door from the inside by an adult.

The deadbolt is the only functional and best method to secure the door, all the other bullshit is just whistling past the graveyard.

As for jumping from a second or third story window:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:......its just not going to happen. We are talking about a school with kids, not infantry or firefighting emergency tactics. People are reluctant to jump from a window even when a raging fire and super heated smoke is driving them out.
 
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Uzi2 said:
Yup, and that will be the sentiment if and when a deadbolt was used on a door from the inside by an adult.

The deadbolt is the only functional and best method to secure the door, all the other bullshit is just whistling past the graveyard.

As for jumping from a second or third story window:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:......its just not going to happen. We are talking about a school with kids, not infantry or firefighting emergency tactics. People are reluctant to jump from a window even when a raging fire and super heated smoke is driving them out.
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Do the training. Then let me know what you think.

Given that the other option is to huddle in a corner and pray? I think ALICE is an improvement.
 
Picton said:
Do the training. Then let me know what you think.

Given that the other option is to huddle in a corner and pray? I think ALICE is an improvement.
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There are plenty of options.....a deadbolt being the major one being deliberately overlooked because there is no money to be made by people throwing out these useless alternative remedies.

I assure you, you will not get an entire classroom of students to jump out a second or third story window under any circumstance.
Also, unless that "training" is refreshed in the minds of those who might use it, on a weekly basis, it will unlikely be remembered at the time of need, they will be paralyzed with fear. People can't even get to their front or back door in a fire and rarely have the sense to open a window an inch to breathe some fresh air.

I applaud your efforts, but its another bandaid on a situation that has very simple and definitive solutions.....all of which being refused their due attention.
 
Coyote33 said:
If I was a teacher, I'd install something like these myself:

mJNB0YgDMBRvB0Rc42Ag2Kw.jpg


Security_Door_Bar_31.21682507_std.jpg
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Bravo!!

Unfortunately, 99.9% of teachers are sheep..... scared to buck the system(unless it concerns their own pay or vacation time) and think logically.
Shame on all city, town and state officials for being so willfully blind to logic.
 

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