Littleton Residents - We need your help!!! - FFL Attack underway

[Dennis in MA]

Alert | Littleton FFL's Under Attack | Vote NO on Article 16 - GOAL.ORG

Can't find anything under Littleton. Shocked Jack hasn't posted it yet, so I thought I would just in case.

 

[citoriguy]

Well that’s a load of BS.

Jack is probably dusting off his powder blue tux he wore at prom so he can go.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Thanks for posting this. I have FFL tenants who are better than I am at dealing with this working on it. If they come at me as the landlord, I'll deal with the miserable pricks. Jack.

 

[yanici]

I'll be willing to bet that there have been no infractions of law nor any nuisance to the neighbors caused by our FFL dealers that operate there. Trying to make a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[EddieCoyle]

We need every Littleton resident reading this to come out and vote NO on Article 16.

Here it is:

§ 94-4. Firearms Dealers.

A. The objectives of this Bylaw are to:

1. Ensure that firearms dealers licensed by the Town of Littleton operate in a manner that protects public safety; and
2. Ensure that the Town of Littleton has adequate financial resources to carry out required inspections of firearms dealers.​

B. This Bylaw is adopted under the authority granted by the Home Rule Amendment of the Massachusetts Constitution and the Home Rule Procedures Act.
C. Terms used in this Bylaw shall have the definitions set forth in M.G.L. c. 140, §121.
D. Safety Requirements

1. The Chief of Police shall adopt, and from time to time may revise, regulations, subject to approval by the Board of Selectmen, governing the safety of the premises and proper operation of businesses situated in the Town of Littleton engaged in the sale rental or lease of firearms or operating as a gunsmith. Such regulations shall include a requirement that all such businesses maintain on file with the Town Clerk copies of all licenses under which they are operating. Upon approval by the Board of Selectmen, such regulations shall be provided to the Littleton Town Clerk.
2. Violation of such regulations shall be punished by a fine of $300 per violation. Each day of noncompliance shall constitute a separate violation. Violations may be penalized by a noncriminal disposition as provided in M.G.L. c. 40, § 1D; police officers shall be the enforcing agents for such noncriminal dispositions.​

E. Inspection Fees

1. The Chief of Police shall calculate a fee for annual inspections (as required by M.G.L. c. 140, § 123) of licensees under M.G.L. c. 140, §122, that reflects the costs incurred by the Town in performing those inspections. Such fee amount shall be stated in a notice signed by the Chief of Police and provided to the Littleton Town Clerk. The Chief of Police may modify the fee annually.
2. The total amount of annual inspection fees for the three-year license term must be paid by the licensee within 30 days of license issuance or renewal. Licensees possessing licenses on the effective date of this bylaw shall pay the annual fee prior to each annual inspection for the remainder of the term of their existing licenses. Failure to pay such fees by the time required shall be considered refusal to submit to an annual inspection;
​

​

 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

I'll be willing to bet that there have been no infractions of law nor any nuisance to the neighbors caused by our FFL dealers that operate there. Trying to make a problem that doesn't exist.

To some, the problem is that there are gun dealers there.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I'll be willing to bet that there have been no infractions of law nor any nuisance to the neighbors caused by our FFL dealers that operate there. Trying to make a problem that doesn't exist.

It's personal. The current shithead COP and the previous shithead POC have hated me since I have opened up the mill for FFL tenants. Makes work for them issuing state licenses. Takes time away from them to write speeding tickets and shooting dogs. Jack.

 

[Dennis in MA]

You know, if all you Littleton dealers weren't shooting up the cars driving by on 119, there wouldn't be a problem. Sheesh.


Hope this all works out for all'y'all. Sucks for sure. Hoping this is a VAST minority of people whining and trying to get their way.


I'm sure they'll be as good at inspections as the Elevator Inspectors are in mAss. Plus I'm betting the Chief wants nothing to do with this. More paperwork. More officer-time on NON-safety issues. Just a lot of headaches for him and staff.

EDIT - or not. Maybe the Chief is a moron. LOL.

Wait - do they actually DO an annual inspection???? Really????

 

[icyclefar]

Please let us know how non Littleton residents might help you in this fight.

 

[Matt_SERE]

What is it that the Board of Selectman want the Police to inspect that doesn't already have some sort of .gov agency oversight.

Why the new suspenders for the belt? How much money can be in this account that is to be "that reflects the costs incurred by the Town in performing those inspections"?

I hope this is attended well by those that believe in civil rights.

@EddieCoyle, as always Thank you!

 

[EddieCoyle]

This bylaw change gives the police a blank check to enact any regulations/restrictions they want, and will give the police the unilateral ability to close down the almost 50 legitimate firearms businesses that have been operating safely in Littleton for YEARS without issue.

The ATF recently inspected every FFL in Littleton, and found NO VIOLATIONS.

As far as safety goes, every dealer in the Mill has taken firearms safety classes, and every dealer in the Mill has passed numerous federal and state background checks. In addition, every customer of every dealer at the Mill is a MA LTC holder, and has therefore passed background checks and taken safety classes. The Mill is literally the safest place in Littleton.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Please let us know how non Littleton residents might help you in this fight.

Unfortunately, not a lot right now.

In fact, if non-resident firearms owners show up in force, it might actually scare the residents into demanding more oversight.

Going forward, there will be opportunities for non-residents to help out, but as far as this town meeting goes, we need residents to come out and cast a vote against arbitrary government oppression.

ETA: The best way to help is for you to contact any Littleton residents that you might know - whether they're gun owners or not - and urge them to read the article, and in place of "Gun Dealers" imagine any other type of small business and decide if the regulations are just and necessary.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I've been licensed for 40 years with no inspections. Like I say, it's personal. However, I can stick it up their ass further than they can stick it up mine. Jack.

 

[arsco]

Did someone call the atf that caused them to inspect or is that inspection normal

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Did someone call the atf that caused them to inspect or is that inspection normal

"They" called ATF. No problem. "They" called the building dep't. No problem. Now they are pissed. Jack.

 

[Broc]

This is how little that building bothers people ...

I lived a few miles from it for a few yyears.i would go get my hair cut at a place that is 1/4 of a mile from the building.

For the first year, I had no idea there were so many dealers there. (And I was already a NES green member).

What I dont understand is, why did the town allow all those FFL there, and now want to impose fees hoping that they leave?

Is some developer pushing for this so they can buy the land?

 

[one-eyed Jack]

e

This is how little that building bothers people ...

I lived a few miles from it for a few yyears.i would go get my hair cut at a place that is 1/4 of a mile from the building.

For the first year, I had no idea there were so many dealers there. (And I was already a NES green member).

What I dont understand is, why did the town allow all those FFL there, and now want to impose fees hoping that they leave?

Is some developer pushing for this so they can buy the land?

The town can't not "allow" a properly zoned business. They just can't wrap their head around this . We own the mill and do what we want. Suck hind tit, shitheads. Jack.

 

[Broc]

e

The town can't not "allow" a properly zoned business. They just can't wrap their head around this . We own the mill and do what we want. Suck hind tit, shitheads. Jack.

Interesting. I mever opened a store, so I am not 100% sure how this works.

I was under the impression the town had to approve new businesses. Or in this case it doesnt because you own the building and can rent it to whoever you want?

Just wondering because I always hear that tattoo parlors and gun stores can have a hard time opening in towns.

 

[swatgig]

e

The town can't not "allow" a properly zoned business. They just can't wrap their head around this . We own the mill and do what we want. Suck hind tit, shitheads. Jack.

How many low income housing units could you fit there if all the FFLs move out?

 

[DW357]

Is some developer pushing for this so they can buy the land?

I was wondering the same.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

How many low income housing units could you fit there if all the FFLs move out?

None. Jack.

 

[CrackPot]

The Littleton Board of Selectmen discussed this topic for almost a whole 5 minutes at the end of September when they were finalizing the warrant for town meeting. The Town Administrator told the board that the CoP had been talking to town counsel and that she had recently got involved. The objective was to recover administrative expense associated with performing annual inspections. The article was ready and needed to be approved for the warrant. The licensing Sergeant was present and spoke for about two minutes. He made the point that there were no safety concerns with the Mill. Multiple business were there and used the mill as their official place of business but stored everything offsite. He then want on some tangent about frames that was impossible to follow.

So the official story appears to be about inspections and the work necessary to perform these inspections. The town has done one inspection in 15 years and that was a couple months ago. No inspections were ever done while the new Chief was the licensing officer or before that.

The problem is that the town is using Glidden's checklist from his book. The checklist is fundamentally flawed and has the inspector attempt to inspect things not required under MGL 140 123. If you try and follow Glidden's list, you would easily replicate the ATF inspection and spend anywhere from 3-10 hours per dealer depending on inventory. When you limit yourself to what MGL enables the licensing authority to inspect, you end up spending 10 minutes. Do you have your signage posted? Can I see any guns from the window? No? Have a nice day.

If we take this all at face value, then addressing the disconnect on what is required for inspection makes the issue go away. As we tried to engage the town on this disconnect and the Town Administrator declined to meet would tend to imply that this is not a face value issue.

 

[kevin9]

How many low income housing units could you fit there if all the FFLs move out?

and offer discounts for multi-children families. If they think FFL inspections cost too much money then they ought to really love the social services and schooling bills that would bring.

 

[CrackPot]

Part of the challenge here is a general lack of understanding by not only the general public, but Littleton town officials on both federal and state law and the interactions between the two. Town officials have said in multiple forums and multiple times that they would shut us all down if they could because they think we are just gaming the system.

The ATF has ruled that a LOT of activities require one to have an FFL: Selling too many guns at gun shows, being a writer that gets guns sent to them to evaluate, etc. In a free state, the individual would get their FFL with their home as their place of business. They would become a kitchen table FFL. This is the practice throughout the country. MA prohibits being an FFL at your residence and demands a separate location/address (ok, there are a few exceptions to this, but lets run with this for now). Another common type of business that does not require a place like the Mill (outside of MA) is someone selling on the internet like Armslist and Gunbroker where all your sales are shipped to another FFL to run the background check, etc.

When you apply for the FFL, you are required to apply for all required state licenses. One could argue that many of these activities do not require a state license, but that is potentially a very fine line to walk. Also, if you are selling out of state, you want to sell items that would violate the MA AWB and the MA magazine capacity restriction. In MA if you have a MA Firearms Dealer's license, you are exempt from the AWB and the magazine capacity limit. This says that even if you never sell anything to a MA resident, you want your MA dealer's license so you can legally possess and sell new ARs, 30rd mags, etc.

Federal rule and state law cause the Mill and places like it to come into existence in MA. It is a necessary construct to satisfy the ATF requirements for a FFL and the MA requirements for a separate location and a dealers license for exemption to the AWB and magazine capacity limit.

I am certain no one in Littleton understand this issue and why the Mill exists. If you take it at face value, there is no way that 50 businesses selling firearms can successfully compete with one another at the same address. But that is not what is happening. Only about 10 are truly active with local retail sales. The rest all fall into other categories of business or requirements to have their FFL. One guy is all about pre-ban ARs and AKs and does everything online. One guy is all about doing research into silencer development and technology. I could continue the list of other businesses that are doing things other than major retail.

Again, if we take this on face value, the powers that be in Littleton understanding why they have so many dealers should make the issue go away. This is not gaming the system but finding a solution to a complex problem caused by Federal rule and State law that are nog aligned. Unfortunately, I am not optimistic that this will change anything

 

[one-eyed Jack]

and offer discounts for multi-children families. If they think FFL inspections cost too much money then they ought to really love the social services and schooling bills that would bring.

Forget all that. We own the building and I'm the boss. Everyone else can pound sand or suck wind. Their choice. "America" Jack.

 

[HARRYM]

Who is the author and sponsor of the amendment? The Town itself or a resident(s)?

 

[CrackPot]

Who is the author and sponsor of the amendment? The Town itself or a resident(s)?

The article was put on the warrant by the Selectmen

The article was written by the Chief of Police, Town Counsel and the Town Administrator based on what the Town Administrator said at the Selectmen's meeting at the end of September.

 

[CrackPot]

To reinforce what @EddieCoyle said, we need Littleton residents to come to town meeting and vote this article down. We need you to contact anyone you know who is a Littleton resident and get them to attend (even if they are not a gun owner). The fight at town meeting is not about the 2nd amendment but about regulatory over reach by the town. This could happen to ANY business type in Littleton if they do this to the Mill.

The fight is against tyranny of the appointed officials over legal, compliant, safe businesses operating within federal and state law.

We would ask that non-residents do not flood the town meeting. We do not want to turn people against us.

We would ask that residents that do attend be respectful of town meeting etiquette and procedure. Our goal is to win hearts and minds, not alienate potential allies.

 

[HARRYM]

The article was put on the warrant by the Selectmen

The article was written by the Chief of Police, Town Counsel and the Town Administrator based on what the Town Administrator said at the Selectmen's meeting at the end of September.

Thanks, who 's brainchild is it though?

 

[timbo]

Town officials have said in multiple forums and multiple times that they would shut us all down if they could because they think we are just gaming the system.

Did anyone else catch the irony in that statement?. They think the FFL's are gaming the system??? Really??? Just take a second look at your EBT card holders ya idiots....that's who's gaming the system.