List of little-known gun law violations that will DQ a Mass. resident from an LTC

GSG

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***I am not a lawyer, but this is a link to a post with the contact info for several highly respected Massachusetts attorneys. What I am posting here is based on my understanding of Massachusetts law; I've provided links so that you can do your own research and draw your own conclusions, but if you think that any of this may apply to you, contact a real lawyer...I'm just some guy on the Internet. [laugh] ***

In Massachusetts, there are several types of convictions that will result in losing your LTC and/or being disqualified for life from obtaining a Mass. LTC. Many people know some of the more common ones, but there are some that aren't very well known. To keep things fairly short, I'm not going to get into the more obvious things such as domestic violence convictions, restraining orders, drug convictions or felony convictions (but remember, some misdemeanors are considered felonies under Federal law, I explained this in the thread Stuck with an FID? You might be a federally prohibited person). Although LTC’s are issued at the discretion of the local police chief in MA, if you are convicted for violating any of the laws that I’m listing here the chief will have no discretion, and you will not be able to be issued an LTC.

As a gun owner in Massachusetts, there are several laws that you might break unknowingly with your guns or ammo that can result in losing your Mass. LTC for life.

The law on the subject of LTC eligibility is MGL 140-131(d)(i), which lists all of the criminal convictions that will bar you from obtaining an LTC. It says:

(i) has, in any state or federal jurisdiction, been convicted or adjudicated a youthful offender or delinquent child for the commission of (a) a felony; (b) a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for more than two years; (c) a violent crime as defined in section 121; (d) a violation of any law regulating the use, possession, ownership, transfer, purchase, sale, lease, rental, receipt or transportation of weapons or ammunition for which a term of imprisonment may be imposed; or (e) a violation of any law regulating the use, possession or sale of controlled substances as defined in section 1 of chapter 94C;

On the surface the part that I bolded seems simple, and it brings to mind images of gun runners or criminals doing evil deeds with their guns. However, there are several little known possible weapons violations in Mass. that will trigger this. Keep in mind, this means any conviction involving weapons (defined by MGL 140-121 as guns) where a term of imprisonment may be imposed, even if no jail time was ever served and it happened out of state. Below I'm listing several gun laws that you might not know you're breaking, but remember, this applies to any gun laws.

Selling ammunition without a License to Sell Ammunition

Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 140 Section 122B says:

Chapter 140: Section 122B. Sale of ammunition; license; fees; rules and regulations; refusal, suspension or revocation of license; judicial review; penalties


Section 122B. No person shall sell ammunition in the commonwealth unless duly licensed.

<snip>

Whoever not being licensed, as hereinbefore provided, sells ammunition within the commonwealth shall be punished by a fine of not less than five hundred nor more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not less than six months nor more than two years.

And before people chime in and tell me that this only applies to retail ammunition sales, according to case law it appears that it applies to any sales of ammunition in MA. In the Mass. SJC case Commonwealth v. Ben Seay (1978) the courts let Mr. Seay's conviction under this charge stand for selling a mere six rounds of ammunition without being duly licensed. You can't sell ammo even if you're legally selling someone a gun without violating this. [thinking] An LTC or FID only allows one to purchase and possess ammo in MA, not sell it.

Now remember, MGL 140-121 defines ammunition as:

“Ammunition”, cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term “ammunition” shall also mean tear gas cartridges, chemical mace or any device or instrument which contains or emits a liquid, gas, powder or any other substance designed to incapacitate.

This means you can't sell a single empty shell casing, other components or even a can of pepper spray.

Carrying a firearm or "any other dangerous weapon" on school grounds

MGL 269-10(j) says:

(j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, “firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.

Any officer in charge of an elementary or secondary school, college or university or any faculty member or administrative officer of an elementary or secondary school, college or university failing to report violations of this paragraph shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and punished by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars.

You need to do your research and make sure that you’re not accidentally setting foot on school grounds when you have anything weapon-like. School grounds may include university hospitals, daycares at schools, vocational training, etc. There's also a some gray area surrounding churches with preschools/kindergarten's, which was discussed in this thread.

Improper storage of a firearm

MGL 140-131L says:

Chapter 140: Section 131L. Weapons stored or kept by owner; inoperable by any person other than owner or lawfully authorized user; punishment


Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

(b) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a firearm, rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon, by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and in the case of a large capacity weapon or machine gun, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(c) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon and such weapon was stored or kept in a place where a person under the age of 18 who does not possess a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B may have access without committing an unforeseeable trespass, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(d) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a rifle or shotgun that is a large capacity weapon, firearm or machine gun was stored or kept in a place where a person under the age of 18 may have access, without committing an unforeseeable trespass, by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years, nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(e) A violation of the provisions of this section shall be evidence of wanton or reckless conduct in any criminal or civil proceeding if a person under the age of 18 who was not a trespasser or was a foreseeable trespasser acquired access to a weapon, unless such person possessed a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B and was permitted by law to possess such weapon, and such access results in the personal injury to or the death of any person.

(f) This section shall not apply to the storage or keeping of any firearm, rifle or shotgun with matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or prior to the year 1899, or to any replica of any such firearm, rifle or shotgun if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

You'll notice that improperly storing some kinds of guns is a misdemeanor, others a felony. If you're convicted of a felony then you're federally prohibited from possessing guns or ammo for life, but in Mass., even if it's a misdemeanor, this kind of "weapons" conviction will bar you for life from obtaining an LTC, including non-resident LTC’s.

Also, the term "Under the control of" is a somewhat gray area to some, but according to NES lore, if you're sleeping, the gun's not under your control anymore, and must be locked up.

Incorrectly filling out an FID or LTC application

The law relating to FID application's is MGL 140-129B(8):

(8) Any person who knowingly files an application containing false information shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for not less than six months nor more than two years in a house of correction, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

The law relating to LTC applications is MGL 140-131(h):

(h) Any person who knowingly files an application containing false information shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for not less than six months nor more than two years in a house of correction, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Depending on the circumstances, it can be very easy to fill out the application incorrectly and violate this law, but "knowingly" may mean different things to different licensing officers. In other words, if you have any kind of a criminal record, you should contact an attorney to walk you through the licensing process.

Issuing or Submitting a false Basic Firearms Safety Certificate

MGL 140-131P(d) & (e) says:

(d) Any person applying for licensure under the provisions of this chapter who knowingly files or submits a basic firearms safety certificate to a licensing authority which contains false information shall be punished by a fine of not less that $1,000 nor more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for not more than two years in a house of correction, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(e) Any firearms safety instructor who knowingly issues a basic firearms safety certificate to a person who has not successfully completed a firearms safety course approved by the colonel shall be punished by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not more than two years in a house of correction, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Double check the spelling on those safety cert's before applying.

A Boston resident violating Boston's Assault Weapons Ban

If a Boston resident is convicted for violating Boston's AWB more than once, it will also trigger this.

SECTION 4.
Any person who violates the provisions of this act as to an assault weapon shall for a first offense be punished by a fine of one thousand dollars, and for any subsequent offense by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years.

Any person who violates the provisions of this act as to a magazine or an ammunition belt shall for a first offense be punished by a fine of two hundred dollars and for any subsequent offense by a fine of five hundred dollars.

The question always comes up, so I'll answer it now. No, the Boston AWB doesn't apply to anyone travelling through Boston, just Boston residents.

(continued in the next post)
 
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Carrying or possessing pepper spray without a license

Under Mass. law, pepper spray and other defense sprays are considered ammunition. MGL 140-121 defines "Ammunition" as:

“Ammunition”, cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term “ammunition” shall also mean tear gas cartridges, chemical mace or any device or instrument which contains or emits a liquid, gas, powder or any other substance designed to incapacitate.

MGL 269-10(h)(1) lays out the penalty for possessing ammunition without a license:

(h)(1) Whoever owns, possesses or transfers a firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition without complying with the provisions of section 129C of chapter 140 shall be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $500. Whoever commits a second or subsequent violation of this paragraph shall be punished by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $1,000, or both. Any officer authorized to make arrests may arrest without a warrant any person whom the officer has probable cause to believe has violated this paragraph.

Since FID's and LTC's (even restricted LTC's) allow the possession and carry of pepper spray, this doesn't apply to most people on this forum. However, I'm sure that everyone here has met a female in Mass. who carries pepper spray without a license and doesn't think that it's a big deal. Before you go handing out defense sprays to your unlicensed wife/girlfriend/daughter/co-worker, keep in mind the potential penalty if they get caught with it. If convicted they'll never be able to obtain a Mass. LTC. A restricted FID is $25 and free to renew for life; if your loved ones might ever want or need an LTC (or if they just don't want to get arrested), don't take this kind of chance.

New residents/heirs not getting licensed soon enough

(In this section I'm referring to MGL 269-10(h)(1) which I quoted in the above section on pepper spray)

AIf a new resident moves to MA, they are only exempt from licensing for 60 days under MGL 140-129C(j), and if a gun owner dies, their heir or legatee is only exempt from licensing for 180 days under MGL 140-129C(n). Even if the licensing authority takes their sweet time issuing an LTC/FID, this law still applies. [shocked]

Violation of hunting regulations

Before you non-hunters brush over this area, you need to know that you are subject to certain hunting laws even when you're not hunting, even on your own private property. Also, since hunting involves "weapons," any violation of a hunting law where the penalty includes serving time will DQ you. This includes hunting in other states, but I'm laying out some of the more interesting ones for Mass.

If you read through Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 131 you can see a lot of the hunting regulations. I'm not a hunter, so there may be more hunting regulations than this; if I'm missing any please let me know and I'll update the thread accordingly.

Possessing a loaded long gun in a boat, vehicle or aircraft

MGL 131-63 says:

Chapter 131: Section 63. Loaded shotgun or rifle in motor vehicle, aircraft or motorboat


Section 63. A person, other than the director of law enforcement, his deputy directors of enforcement, chiefs of enforcement, deputy chiefs of enforcement, environmental police officers, deputy environmental police officers, warden and members of the state or local police in areas over which they have jurisdiction, special officers or persons charged with the protection of persons or property while acting in the discharge of their respective duties, as such, and paraplegics as provided in section sixty-five, shall not, except upon land owned or occupied by him, have in his possession or under his control in or on any motor vehicle or aircraft a loaded shotgun or rifle, nor shall he have in his possession or under his control in any motor boat a loaded shotgun or rifle unless authorized by the director in regulations relating to the hunting of migratory waterfowl; and any person shall, upon the demand of any officer authorized to enforce this chapter, display for inspection any shotgun or rifle in his possession or under his control in a motor vehicle, aircraft or motorboat while not on property owned or occupied by him.

If you're not on your own property, in general you can't have a loaded long gun in any of the above vehicles, and if you're not on your own property, you have to let LE check to see if it's loaded. The penalty for violating this is laid out in MGL 131-90, which says:

Whoever violates any provision of section sixteen, twenty-eight, thirty-three, forty-eight, sixty-one, sixty-three, sixty-four or seventy or of any rule or regulation made under authority thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than sixty days, or both.

Target shooting with tracer/incendiary ammo on your own land

MGL 131-64 says:

Chapter 131: Section 64. Automatic firearms, machine guns or bows; use of tracer ammunition


Section 64. A person shall not use for hunting purposes any type of full automatic firearm, machine gun or submachine gun, or any crossbow, except as provided in section 69, nor use any tracer or incendiary ammunition for hunting or outdoor target shooting purposes except on a skeet, trap, or target range.

This means you can't target shoot on your own property with tracer ammo outdoors. [thinking] The penalty is found in MGL 131-90, which says:

Whoever violates any provision of section sixteen, twenty-eight, thirty-three, forty-eight, sixty-one, sixty-three, sixty-four or seventy or of any rule or regulation made under authority thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than sixty days, or both.

I'd never even heard of this restriction until I started digging for info to put in this thread.

Possession of certain shotgun shells "where mammals may be found" outside of deer season

For the purposes of this section and the ones following, MGL 131-1 defines mammals as:

“Mammals”, wild or undomesticated mammals.

MGL 131-66 says:

Chapter 131: Section 66. Shotgun shells, load


Section 66. A person shall not, except during the prescribed open season when deer may be hunted lawfully with a shotgun, have in his possession a shotgun shell loaded with a rifled slug, single ball, buckshot of any size, BB shot or air rifle shot in any place where birds or mammals might be found, except on a skeet, trap or target range between sunrise and sunset; provided, however, that the director shall promulgate rules and regulations prescribing the type and size of such BB shot.

Read this carefully. If it's not deer season, you can't possess these shotshells “in any place where birds or mammals might be found” or at a shooting range after dark. [thinking] The penalty is found in MGL 131-90, which says:

Whoever violates any provision of section sixty-five, sixty-six, sixty-seven or eighty-six shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one thousand dollars, or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. Whoever fails to keep open or maintain a fishway as prescribed by the director under authority of clause (14) of section four shall be punished by a fine of fifty dollars for each day that he fails to keep open or maintain said fishway as prescribed.

Possessing certain rifles or pistols "where mammals may be found" at night

MGL 131-67

Chapter 131: Section 67. Rifles, revolvers and pistols; caliber


Section 67. A person shall not use or possess, where birds or mammals may be found, any rifle chambered to take larger than twenty-two long rifle ammunition, or any revolver or pistol chambered to take larger than thirty-eight caliber ammunition between the hours of one half hour after sunset to one half hour before sunrise of any day throughout the year.

Keeping in mind that "mammals" means wild animals, this means pretty much anywhere you go outside of a city at night. They also don't define what calibers are "larger than .38 caliber," or how they'd measure those sizes. The penalty is in MGL 131-90, which says:

Whoever violates any provision of section sixty-five, sixty-six, sixty-seven or eighty-six shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one thousand dollars, or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. Whoever fails to keep open or maintain a fishway as prescribed by the director under authority of clause (14) of section four shall be punished by a fine of fifty dollars for each day that he fails to keep open or maintain said fishway as prescribed.

Possessing or controlling a rifle, pistol or revolver in any wood or field during deer season

MGL 131-70 says:

Chapter 131: Section 70. Hunting with rifle, revolver or pistol, or by the aid of a dog; primitive firearms


Section 70. A person shall not, during the open season when deer may be hunted lawfully with a shotgun, hunt a bird or mammal with a rifle, revolver or pistol or by the aid of a dog, or have in his possession or under his control in any wood or field, a rifle, revolver or pistol, or a dog. Nothing in this section shall be deemed to prohibit the use of dogs to hunt waterfowl in coastal waters and salt marshes during the open season on migratory waterfowl.

Notwithstanding the provisions of this section, the director may authorize the use of primitive firearms or shotguns with a rifled bore for hunting during any period when deer may be hunted by means of a firearm under rules and regulations promulgated in accordance with section five.

Be careful where you walk with a gun on during deer season. The penalty is found in MGL 131-90, which says:

Whoever violates any provision of section sixteen, twenty-eight, thirty-three, forty-eight, sixty-one, sixty-three, sixty-four or seventy or of any rule or regulation made under authority thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than sixty days, or both.

While the penalty is fairly petty, because it involves imprisonment it’s a statutory LTC disqualifier.

Discharging a firearm within 500 feet of a dwelling or building in use

MGL 269-12E says:

Chapter 269: Section 12E. Discharge of a firearm within 500 feet of a dwelling or other building in use; exceptions


Section 12E. Whoever discharges a firearm as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, a rifle or shotgun within five hundred feet of a dwelling or other building in use, except with the consent of the owner or legal occupant thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than three months, or both. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (a) the lawful defense of life and property; (b) any law enforcement officer acting in the discharge of his duties; (c) persons using underground or indoor target or test ranges with the consent of the owner or legal occupant thereof; (d) persons using outdoor skeet, trap, target or test ranges with the consent of the owner or legal occupant of the land on which the range is established; (e) persons using shooting galleries, licensed and defined under the provisions of section fifty-six A of chapter one hundred and forty; and (f) the discharge of blank cartridges for theatrical, athletic, ceremonial, firing squad, or other purposes in accordance with section thirty-nine of chapter one hundred and forty-eight.

It doesn't apply to self defense, shooting ranges and a few other situations, but even if you're shooting on your own land, break out the measuring tape and make sure you're not violating this with regards to your neighbors, or you can kiss your LTC goodbye if you’re convicted.

Trespassing on land with firearms & intent to shoot

MGL 266-121 says:

Chapter 266: Section 121. Entry on land with firearms


Section 121. Whoever, without right, enters upon the land of another with firearms, with intent to fire or discharge them thereon, and, having been requested by the owner or occupant of such land or by his agent to leave such land, remains thereon, shall be punished by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than two months, or both.

(Continued in the next post)
 
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Carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun on a public way

MGl 269-12D says:

Chapter 269: Section 12D. Rifle or shotgun loaded with shells or cartridges; unloaded rifle or shotgun; carrying on public way prohibited; exceptions; punishment


Section 12D. (a) Except as exempted or provided by law, no person shall carry on his person on any public way a loaded rifle or shotgun having cartridges or shells in either the magazine or chamber thereof. For purposes of this section, “loaded shotgun or loaded rifle” shall mean any shotgun or rifle having ammunition in either the magazine or chamber thereof, such ammunition including a live cartridge, primer (igniter), bullet or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun and, in the case of a muzzle loading or black powder shotgun or rifle, containing powder in the flash pan, a percussion cap and shot or ball; but the term “loaded shotgun or loaded rifle” shall not include a shotgun or rifle loaded with a blank cartridge, which contains no projectile within such blank or within the bore or chamber of such shotgun or rifle.

Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000 or by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than two years, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and may be arrested without a warrant; provided, however, that if such rifle or shotgun is a large capacity weapon, as defined in section 121 of chapter 140, such person shall be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and may be arrested without a warrant.

There are exemptions to this, but pay attention to two important things here: One, in this section of law, the term "loaded" includes having ammunition in the magazine (unlike MGL 269-10(n)-(o) where it's only considered "loaded" if the magazine is attached to the gun). Two, it's a felony to violate this law with a "large capacity" rifle or shotgun. Click the link to read the entire law.

Licensing authority improperly issuing an LTC

MGL 140-131(k) says:

(k) Whoever knowingly issues a license in violation of this section shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for not less than six months nor more than two years in a jail or house of correction, or by both such fine and imprisonment

The worst part about getting any of these convictions is that they can't be overturned by the Firearms Licensing Review Board. That link says in part:

About the Firearm Licensing Review Board

The FLRB has the authority to review only misdemeanor convictions. Further, there may be more than one conviction, but all convictions must arise from a single incident. The FLRB may not review convictions for:

a felony; or
an assault or battery on a family or household member, or person with whom there is/was a substantive dating relationship, as defined by G.L. c. 209A, § 1; or
a crime involving use, possession, ownership, transfer, purchase, sale, lease, rental, receipt or transportation of weapons or ammunition for which a term of imprisonment may be imposed; or
a crime regulating the use, possession or sale of controlled substances.
In addition, an individual may not apply for review until after the passage of five (5) years since conviction or release from supervision, whichever is last occurring. The FLRB will review criminal histories as part of the petition review process.

People looking for a review have the burden of proof, by clear and convincing evidence, that they are eligible and suitable to possess an FID or LTC. The petitioner will have the opportunity to appear and/or submit documentary evidence. The FLRB will not provide legal advice to petitioners.

If the FLRB determines that the petitioner is a suitable candidate for an LTC relative to the misdemeanor conviction(s), the application process and final decision of whether or not to issue a license remains with the local police chief.

So if you're convicted for violating one of these laws, you're stuck with it.

This list includes all of the misdemeanor weapons violations I've been able to find in MA law where a term of imprisonment can be imposed. If there's more that I'm missing let me know and I'll include them in this thread.

An interesting side note, there are 351 towns & cities in Massachusetts, and many have their own city ordinances/town bylaws in place restricting what knives can be carried in that municipality. I've read the text of several and the only penalties I've been able to find for violating ones in Mass. are civil monetary fines; none of them that I've seen include jail time, but I don't have enough time on my hands to read through them all. [laugh] I don't know if a violation of a local ordinance or bylaw meets the statutory "no soup for you" found in MGL 140-131(d)(i) that’s discussed in this thread. I haven't been able to find any case law on the subject, but you're probably better off not finding out either way.

Be careful with guns, knives and other weapons in Massachusetts. [grin]
 
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GSG, this information is extremely helpful. I like that you direct us to the statutes on the books, rather than just opining or speculating on what the law might be. Most of all, I appreciate how good-natured you are in all your posts, not nasty and condescending like a particular "lawyer" here has been.

If you aren't already in law school, I suggest you GET YOUR BUTT IN LAW SCHOOL. For the sake of all of us. Really, I think you have a gift I haven't posted in months, but after seeing your thoughtful posts, over time, I finally had to speak up.

Please go to law school so that you can put your brain to use for all of us law-abiding, lawful citizens of the United States.

Thanks
 
GSG, this information is extremely helpful. I like that you direct us to the statutes on the books, rather than just opining or speculating on what the law might be. Most of all, I appreciate how good-natured you are in all your posts, not nasty and condescending like a particular "lawyer" here has been.

If you aren't already in law school, I suggest you GET YOUR BUTT IN LAW SCHOOL. For the sake of all of us. Really, I think you have a gift I haven't posted in months, but after seeing your thoughtful posts, over time, I finally had to speak up.

Please go to law school so that you can put your brain to use for all of us law-abiding, lawful citizens of the United States.

Thanks

GSG? Law School? Nah [laugh]

just kiddin bud, good stuff as always.
 
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It's interesting that long guns are not allowed on boats but it says nothing about snubby J-frames. And as for 26-12E,
Discharging a firearm within 500 feet of a dwelling or building in use, I'm glad you reminded people of that one. All in all, the whole list is helpful. Most of us don't often think about these unusual circumstances during the normal course of our day, so it's good to see the info in one place here.
 
Chapter 131: Section 70. Hunting with rifle, revolver or pistol, or by the aid of a dog; primitive firearms


Section 70. A person shall not, during the open season when deer may be hunted lawfully with a shotgun, hunt a bird or mammal with a rifle, revolver or pistol or by the aid of a dog, or have in his possession or under his control in any wood or field, a rifle, revolver or pistol, or a dog. Nothing in this section shall be deemed to prohibit the use of dogs to hunt waterfowl in coastal waters and salt marshes during the open season on migratory waterfowl.

Waitaminute, does this law say that I can't walk my dog through the park during shotgun season?

ETA: Hey, I've got it... I'll just turn him off leash. There's no jail sentence for violating leash laws, and then I can show the conservation officer Boone's obedience school report card as evidence that he's clearly not under my control :)
 
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Chapter 131: Section 67. Rifles, revolvers and pistols; caliber


Section 67. A person shall not use or possess, where birds or mammals may be found, any rifle chambered to take larger than twenty-two long rifle ammunition, or any revolver or pistol chambered to take larger than thirty-eight caliber ammunition between the hours of one half hour after sunset to one half hour before sunrise of any day throughout the year.

Wow. So, if I am hiking and I finish before sunset, I can bring the 40-cal with me. If I don't make it out of there by dark or if I want to go camping, I can only bring the 9. Wow the laws in this state are freakin dumb.

If I get attacked by a bear, I am suing the state (assuming I survive).

Worse yet, birds or mammals "may be found" just about anywhere. I guess if I see a deer on the backroads while driving home from work and happen to be carrying my G23, I am breaking the law if it is after sunset?
 
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Nice list, but you left out "failure to report a hotel fire" and "receipt for deposit by insolvent institution".

My intent was to create a list of gun/knife related charges, since I'm willing to bet that just about everyone on this forum uses one or the other on a regular basis. I'll get around to other law lists eventually, I'm sure. [grin]

law school

Law School

Someday. [wink]

It's interesting that long guns are not allowed on boats but it says nothing about snubby J-frames.

Correct, it's only long guns that generally aren't allowed in boats, handguns are fine, although guns in boats are subject to other laws as well.

Waitaminute, does this law say that I can't walk my dog through the park during shotgun season?

Looks like a dog's a pretty dangerous animal. [laugh]

Good list. It should be a sticky. [grin]

We're running out of room for stickies in this forum. I think that says something about the legal situation in Mass.
 
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Wow. So, if I am hiking and I finish before sunset, I can bring the 40-cal with me. If I don't make it out of there by dark or if I want to go camping, I can only bring the 9. Wow the laws in this state are freakin dumb.

I guess the question is how they will define what "larger" is. A .38 stood up on a table is taller than a 9mm, but a .40 is larger in circumference and diameter. So what about a .357 magnum?

The short answer is what you said, the laws are dumb.
 
My intent was to create a list of gun/knife related charges, since I'm willing to bet that just about everyone on this forum uses one or the other on a regular basis. I'll get around to other law lists eventually, I'm sure.
My intent was to point out how bizarre MGL can be, not criticize an excellent summary.

J Hickson recently informed me that the "failure to report a hotel fire" only applies to someone running or working in the hotel, not others who happen to see a burning hotel and not call it in.

I guess the question is how they will define what "larger" is. A .38 stood up on a table is taller than a 9mm, but a .40 is larger in circumference and diameter. So what about a .357 magnum?
Similar issue in RI where one cannot carrying anything bigger than listed on the permit - but I think they use diameter only. It's tempting to take the qualification with a 50 just to get the most flexible permit, but I use 45ACP which is the largest I could conceive of carrying.
 
Similar issue in RI where one cannot carrying anything bigger than listed on the permit - but I think they use diameter only. It's tempting to take the qualification with a 50 just to get the most flexible permit, but I use 45ACP which is the largest I could conceive of carrying.

Not to mention there's not (m)any Mass. compliant handguns in .50 AE. [laugh]
 
I updated the original three posts in this thread to include new info that I found on this subject regarding new residents moving into Mass., definitions regarding both dangerous weapons and school grounds, loaded guns on public ways, and licensing authorities improperly issuing LTC's.
 
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Keeping in mind that "mammals" means wild animals, this means pretty much anywhere you go outside of a city at night. They also don't define what calibers are "larger than .38 caliber," or how they'd measure those sizes.

So, if I go for a walk through the neighborhood at night and come across a stray cat while carrying my G23, I am committing a felony?!? Wow, I REALLY need to convince the wife to move out of this sorry ass state.
 
Chapter 131: Section 53. Fishing with floats; toggle fishing

Section 53. A person shall not fish with floats, otherwise known as toggle fishing, in any inland water of the commonwealth. For the purposes of this section, a “float” shall mean any device floating with a line and hook attached, baited with natural or artificial bait and not under the direct control of the hand of the person fishing.

so if you fish with a float your rod can not leave your hand.

every law in this state has been wrighten by smart a**h***s who have nothing better to do than to put everyone in violation of something. they don't care to fix anything after the fact. look at all the room they have on some of these pages, could they add you can fish with a float as long as your within X amount of feet from the fishing rod?

it leaves you wondering if you should even have floats in your tackle box.

basically i see the law was to prevent "dead lining". toss a line in the water, leave and go back later to see what you got.

i guess they don't want you casting floats out around a lake and watching them from a distance. but look at what happens when an idiot writes the law.
 
What about giving ammo away to a verified LTC holder instead of selling it? What say you, GSG?

Or, what about buying some ammo for your friends when you are buying some for yourself per their request prior to the purchase ? Making no profit, just splitting the cost of the ammo? If this violates the law how does this effect "NES Group Buys" of ammo?

What a friggin can of worms, after 47 years, I can't wait to get to N.H.
 
Think for just a few seconds about the complexity represented in GSG's posts.

Now add to that the potential for individual LEOs to misunderstand or misinterpret the laws.

It makes my head spin!
 
So, if I go for a walk through the neighborhood at night and come across a stray cat while carrying my G23, I am committing a felony?!?

No, it's a misdemeanor, however, if you get a conviction for any of these misdemeanors that I've listed in this thread, you'll lose your LTC for life in MA, and never be able to appeal it's loss. Also, you'll see that there's no requirement for animals to actually be there; the text of the law reads "where birds or mammals may be found." Animals don't have to be present for you to violate it, it means basically anywhere rural. I haven't been able to find any case law on it either, so there's no binding precedent.

In short it's very vague and very easy to violate, with severe penalties for legal gun owners if convicted (loss of your guns and your LTC, no legal gun ownership in MA until 5 years have passed when you can apply for an FID only).

What about giving ammo away to a verified LTC holder instead of selling it? What say you, GSG?

Before I answer, I'd like to repeat that I'm not a laywer, and this is just my opinion.

I think that a strict reading of the MGL's and the one lonely piece of case law on the subject shows that a straight gift, where no money changes hands, would be legal. The biggest issue that I see is one that is repeated far too often on this forum: "Do you want to be the test case?" While I do believe it's legal, the Mass. SJC hasn't specifically hashed out the details of that particular law. In other words, as far as anyone can tell it's legal right now, but if someone gets in trouble for it case law could change that.

But the laws regarding ammo sales brings up another interesting point. MA residents are only allowed to sell 4 guns per calendar year on FA-10's, the rest have to go through an FFL. If you're out of personal transfers and you go to an FFL to sell a gun and a few boxes of ammo, the FFL probably won't take in used ammo. Until the courts clarify the matter for us, as far as I can see the only legal way to dispose of ammo is to shoot it, trade it, gift it or sell it while outside of Mass. Keep in mind that under MA law "ammo" includes any components, such as primers or even empty shell casings.

Legal mumbo jumbo aside, in this thread I'm harping on the idea that it's not worth the risk.

Or, what about buying some ammo for your friends when you are buying some for yourself per their request prior to the purchase ? Making no profit, just splitting the cost of the ammo? If this violates the law how does this effect "NES Group Buys" of ammo?

Every group buy that I've ever seen on NES is set up so that everyone pools their money together first, then a few people run the transaction for everyone, including distribution. No need to worry, this is perfectly legal.

Here's an example: if tomorrow you went down to your local FFL and got a great deal on 100,000 rounds of 9mm, plunked down the cash, then came on NES and offered to sell it to other people, you would in fact be selling it, because you were the only buyer, and you're selling the ammo to the other party. But if you saw the ammo there, then came on NES to get some other guys/gals in on it, pooled the money, then the entire group would be buying it as one and dividing it up accordingly. Hence the term "Group Buy," not "One guy buy, sell to group." [wink] In every group buy I've seen on NES, people have gone to great pains to make sure that all of the laws are followed, including the laws regarding storing certain quantities of ammo, DOT regulations for transporting ammo, etc. The seasoned experts who set up those emotional roller coasters for everyone to ride are familiar with the ins and outs of things.

It makes my head spin!

This is exactly my point. The average citizen who wants to own a gun in MA faces a mountain of legal hurdles. Keep in mind this thread only includes a list of MA laws regarding guns that will DQ you from getting an LTC, there's many other law violations (which are completely unrelated to guns) that will as well.
 
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The reason dumball wants more gun laws is not because he thinks we need them. He just wants to make life as miserable as possible for gun owners through harrasment and discrimination so many people that have thought about owning a gun won't bother and those of us that already own them will give up in frustration and stop owning guns. He should be sued and jailed for his actions but unfortunatly he gets away with his violations of our rights.

Dear G*d.....and dumball thinks we need more gun laws? [rolleyes]
GSG, thank you for this and all your other informative posts. Keep up the good fight and stay safe [wink]
 
Dear G*d.....and dumball thinks we need more gun laws? [rolleyes]

The reason dumball wants more gun laws is not because he thinks we need them. He just wants to make life as miserable as possible for gun owners through harrasment and discrimination so many people that have thought about owning a gun won't bother and those of us that already own them will give up in frustration and stop owning guns.

I'm no stellar defender of Cadillac Deval, but like most politicians, I'm willing to bet that he knows very little about the laws he wants to pass, he's basing things on looking good an emotionally appealing to constituents.

Consider for a second how little of the Mass. gun laws are understood by the police and gun owners who use them and live by them every day. Imagine how much less understanding there is for someone who doesn't own guns, doesn't need guns (24/7 bodyguards will do that for you), isn't involved in our culture, etc.

I agree that there has been a calculated effort in MA to discourage gun ownership, harass legitimate gun dealers and other similar things, but that all pre-dates the current governor. The legislature gave the AG, CHSB, MSP and local police chiefs all this power and authority, and they use it however they see fit. We need to educate our elected officials on these ridiculous issues and push to change this legislation. H2259 is a great start, but even some of the wording in that bill has me concerned.

/rant
 
We need to educate our elected officials on these ridiculous issues and push to change this legislation.

Many of them have gone to the dark side and will not even consider coming back to the good side of 2A. Politicians that run unapposed in elections can do what they want. And, many of them don't want guns in law-abiding citizens hands.

The founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.
 
Short version: if you own, or want to own, firearms or anything that can even conceivably be used as a weapon, and you live in Mass., you're fooked.

Your best chance is to move north.
 
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