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Light 44 mag loads w/ 231, Titegroup, Bullseye

DW357

DW357

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So I finally snuck out to the range to test out some lighter powder puff 44 mag loads that I plan to use for indoor/winter shooting since we can't shoot jacketed or magnum rounds indoors.

I'm using X-treme plated 240 gr RN bullets
5.8 gr 231
~1.610" COL
WLP Primers
Light crimp, just enough to keep the bullets from being pushed into the case by hand.
Using my Ruger Super Redhawk 7.5"

They shot extremely well at ~35 ft. The only thing that stood out to me was the unburnt powder in the cases and in the barrel. Is this typical when using faster burning powders like 231 in 44 mag?

Should I not really care since they shot very accurately? I haven't chronoed these yet but based on my Hornady manual using lead 240 gr data, these should be running between 800-850 fps.

I have other powders like Bullseye, Titegroup, and Power Pistol but I'd like to save those for my 9mm and 7.62x25 loads. Would those others powders burn better?

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I for one would take accuracy over "clean".
You want some powder puff loads try trailboss powder. http://www.imrpowder.com/data/handgun/trailboss.php
I use it in 38spl for some real cream puffs with cast loads.

Also if you cant shoot Jacketed you should buy a mold for 44. running them at low speeds you can use straight Wheel weight lead and shoot some very cheap loads.
 
I would think a light crimp could be the culprit here.
If you chrono then you might notice big spreads in velocity.
Also 231 isn't super fast. I would go with something like bullseye, red dot, titegroup etc.
if you're just punching paper use a faster powder. You dont need to get high velocity just accuracy, clean burn and hopefully an efficient load.
Check out the cowboy data section inthe Hodgdon guide. Looks like 4.3 grains of clays will get you around 760 fps and I'm sure it will burn much cleaner.
Good luck!
 
Michael J. Spangler said:
I would think a light crimp could be the culprit here.
If you chrono then you might notice big spreads in velocity.
Also 231 isn't super fast. I would go with something like bullseye, red dot, titegroup etc.
if you're just punching paper use a faster powder. You dont need to get high velocity just accuracy, clean burn and hopefully an efficient load.
Check out the cowboy data section inthe Hodgdon guide. Looks like 4.3 grains of clays will get you around 760 fps and I'm sure it will burn much cleaner.
Good luck!
Click to expand...

Yeah it could definitely be the crimp as I tried to avoid overcrimping. But I may have went too light on the crimp, about a 1/4 turn with my Lee FCD. I'll try a 1/2 turn.

Well according to the Lapua burn chart, 231 has the same burn rate as Titegroup and Bullseye, and faster than Red Dot. I thought the consensus was that 231/HP38 is a pretty fast powder? http://www.lapua.com/upload/reloading/reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf

But I'll have to look up the cowboy loads. Thanks. I'll report back when I get to test more.
 
mac1911 said:
I for one would take accuracy over "clean".
You want some powder puff loads try trailboss powder. http://www.imrpowder.com/data/handgun/trailboss.php
I use it in 38spl for some real cream puffs with cast loads.

Also if you cant shoot Jacketed you should buy a mold for 44. running them at low speeds you can use straight Wheel weight lead and shoot some very cheap loads.
Click to expand...

Yeah they shot great other than the unburnt powder so. Is trail boss that Cheerio/donut shaped powder? I had a fellow NESer send me some of his lead 44 bullets which shot good but I wasn't a fan of the lube getting all over my dies and cases. These plated bullets are about 11-12 cents. Cheaper if I bought more. My wrist breaker 44 loads I use montana gold JSPs which are 21 cents. Obviously way more than lead but I just like how much cleaner the plated and jacketed bullets are.
 
andrew1220 said:
Yeah it could definitely be the crimp as I tried to avoid overcrimping. But I may have went too light on the crimp, about a 1/4 turn with my Lee FCD. I'll try a 1/2 turn.

Well according to the Lapua burn chart, 231 has the same burn rate as Titegroup and Bullseye, and faster than Red Dot. I thought the consensus was that 231/HP38 is a pretty fast powder? http://www.lapua.com/upload/reloading/reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf

But I'll have to look up the cowboy loads. Thanks. I'll report back when I get to test more.
Click to expand...

i believe that 231 is a pretty fast burning powder, but not as fast as clays and bullseye and the like. the 231 is listed in the manual for target to medium loads, where as clays is listed for target and light loads. i think something along those lines would be better suited to the lighter loads.
especially if you're just punching paper.
i've always been a fan of a smaller charge of fast powder running at the higher end of its spectrum to reach X velocity instead of an equal or larger charge of a medium powder running in the middle of it's spectrum to gain the same exact velocity.
you're going to see a better burn with a powder at the higher end of its suggested loads than you would at the middle or lower end.
i used 231 in my 45 ACP for some light target loads i was running at about 4.5 grains. i had a bunch of unburnt powder. i had to step it up to 5.5 to get a clean burn if memory serves me correct. that was probably around 850 FPS
i switched to red dot in the absence of bullseye and i run 4.5 grains which is about 830 FPS. no unburnt powder and still get close enough to where i need to be.

moral of the story, faster powder for target stuff for sure.
 
I could try using Bullseye or Titegroup. I don't want to increase the charge with 231 anymore because I'm trying to keep these slow so they're not a real magnum load due to my indoor range restrictions. Thanks for the tips guys!
 
My light .38, W231 loads look just like that. I bumped them up (I think ~.5gn) and it mostly went away.

You'll probably pick up some accuracy too, I noticed an improvement (although that group looks pretty good).
 
turbo89 said:
My light .38, W231 loads look just like that. I bumped them up (I think ~.5gn) and it mostly went away.

You'll probably pick up some accuracy too, I noticed an improvement (although that group looks pretty good).
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if I should even care about the cleanliness. Shoots good enough but as Michael Spangler said, it will be worth chronoing them to see if the velocities are all over the place.
 
andrew1220 said:
I could try using Bullseye or Titegroup. I don't want to increase the charge with 231 anymore because I'm trying to keep these slow so they're not a real magnum load due to my indoor range restrictions. Thanks for the tips guys!
Click to expand...

If you are looking for softer loads use .44 special. I use Win-296 24gr for my .44 magnum it's right on the border of being uncomfortable to shoot and around 1400 fps.

I use 5.5gr of Win-231 for my .45's like Michael.
 
I'd consider loading .44 Specials, too. You might find the range personnel get a bit troubled seeing .44 Magnum cartridges (even though you're loading them light). It will avoid any mishaps on your end, too (as far as forgetting what magnum loads are not magnums, etc.).
You might want to give coated bullets a try, if the range has any restrictions on jacketed/plated projectiles.
Most lighter .44 loads don't really require a heavy crimp, but if you use a cast bullet with a crimp groove, you can apply the roll crimp quite easily..
 
dhuze said:
If you are looking for softer loads use .44 special. I use Win-296 24gr for my .44 magnum it's right on the border of being uncomfortable to shoot and around 1400 fps.

I use 5.5gr of Win-231 for my .45's like Michael.
Click to expand...

I was trying to avoid buying 44 special brass and getting that crud/fouling ring in the cylinder, but it might be worth just buying a couple hundred cases.

Ya I use 23.5 gr of H110/296 with 240 gr JSP for my wrist breaker loads also 30 gr of H110/296 with 180 gr XTPs - talk about muzzle flash!
 
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NavelOfficer said:
I'd consider loading .44 Specials, too. You might find the range personnel get a bit troubled seeing .44 Magnum cartridges (even though you're loading them light). It will avoid any mishaps on your end, too (as far as forgetting what magnum loads are not magnums, etc.).
You might want to give coated bullets a try, if the range has any restrictions on jacketed/plated projectiles.
Most lighter .44 loads don't really require a heavy crimp, but if you use a cast bullet with a crimp groove, you can apply the roll crimp quite easily..
Click to expand...

Good point about the range personnel, I'm sure they probably would question me if they happen to see my cartridges. The indoor range is 24/7 without a RO so I might be able to get by except on Sundays when it's crammed with all club members there.

It would be hard for me to mistake which rounds are 'magnums' since these plated bullets look a lot different than my MG JSPs and Hornady XTPs but I see your point, just to be safe. Plated and lead bulelts are good to go but no jacketed bullets. I'll have to research these coated bullets you and Michael Spangler mentioned.
 
dhuze said:
My indoor range only allows magnum rounds that are lead and under 1200fps. Personally I don't see the point of shooting a .44 at 35 feet. I like shooting mine at 100 yards.
Click to expand...

Hah ya I hear ya. I NEVER shoot indoors, always at the outdoor range. But with all this snow, I don't see myself getting to the outdoor range and trampling through 3 feet of snow to set up targets. So I figured what the hell, maybe load some rounds that I can shoot indoors during the winter.

I much prefer blowing up soda bottles and water jugs with my 44 but can't really do that now. Although it's possible someone might have shoveled a path at the outdoor range at my club, I should probably check first lol.

These were the 180 gr XTPs with 30 gr of H110 out of my Henry and Super Redhawk

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I'm going to do more playing around with the crimp as well as try some Bullseye I've yet to open before I buy 44 spl brass. Or just say F the unburnt powder as long as they shoot accurately for close indoor shooting. Save the full house loads for outdoors/longer range.
 
that's awesome.
i want a 44 mag so bad. i need to up my game and finally load some hot 357s. it's been almost all 38s through my lever gun with the odd 357 here and there.

i think you're going to like what you find with bullseye.
 
Michael J. Spangler said:
that's awesome.
i want a 44 mag so bad. i need to up my game and finally load some hot 357s. it's been almost all 38s through my lever gun with the odd 357 here and there.

i think you're going to like what you find with bullseye.
Click to expand...

For 357, I use 14.7 gr of 2400 with a 158 gr JSP. I need to shoot more 357 but 44 is so damn fun! My Henry 357 and GP100 haven't left the safe since getting into 44
 
Did you try those 240SWC's I sent to you? They are great for light plinking loads but drop off pretty fast past 50yds or if you drive them to hard. Or even better, use those 44 Russian cases for the ultimate light plinker. 44 Russian was/is noted for it's accuracy. I have more of those cases if your interested, I'll never shoot them.
 
Stape said:
Did you try those 240SWC's I sent to you? They are great for light plinking loads but drop off pretty fast past 50yds or if you drive them to hard. Or even better, use those 44 Russian cases for the ultimate light plinker. 44 Russian was/is noted for it's accuracy. I have more of those cases if your interested, I'll never shoot them.
Click to expand...

Yeah I shot all of the 240s using 6.7 gr of 231 and they shot great, little messy to load compared to jacketed/plated but not a huge deal. I wanted to make an even lighter load so that's why I tried 5.7 gr of 231.

I forgot about the 44 russian cases you gave me now that you mention it lol. I'll have to try those cases too.
 
andrew1220 said:
Yeah they shot great other than the unburnt powder so. Is trail boss that Cheerio/donut shaped powder? I had a fellow NESer send me some of his lead 44 bullets which shot good but I wasn't a fan of the lube getting all over my dies and cases. These plated bullets are about 11-12 cents. Cheaper if I bought more. My wrist breaker 44 loads I use montana gold JSPs which are 21 cents. Obviously way more than lead but I just like how much cleaner the plated and jacketed bullets are.
Click to expand...

Trailboss looks like little cheerio.....you could use it with plated bullets also. I don't have a,problem with the lube. It might build up slightly on the dies over time.
 
mac1911 said:
Trailboss looks like little cheerio.....you could use it with plated bullets also. I don't have a,problem with the lube. It might build up slightly on the dies over time.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I thought. I remember we used trail boss to load 38 spl in Jim's class last year and noticed the distinct shape of the powder.

The lube wasn't the end of the world but between getting on my dies and all over the cases I definjtely liked how much cleaner plated and jacketed bullets are. Also these would be for indoor shooting and those lubed lead bullets create a huge cloud of smoke lol. The venthilation sucks at my club too which doesn't help.
 
I reload 44mag brass to light loads using both Bullseye and Titegroup with 240gr cast lead and 240gr plated. Both have worked great for me. If you are interested in what I used for load weights, let me know and I can check when I get home. I don't think I've ever noticed unburnt powder issues or the like, and probably shot about 400 of them.
 
Mattyd7 said:
I reload 44mag brass to light loads using both Bullseye and Titegroup with 240gr cast lead and 240gr plated. Both have worked great for me. If you are interested in what I used for load weights, let me know and I can check when I get home. I don't think I've ever noticed unburnt powder issues or the like, and probably shot about 400 of them.
Click to expand...

Nice. Ya I'm going to try some Bullseye this weekend if I can't get the 231 to burn a little cleaner - might try increasing the crimp. Ya when you have a second, I'd be curious to see what your loading. Thanks.
 
For ultralight 44 mag loads I used 5grs of red dot ran about 800-850 no recoil to speak of .
 
i've been dying for one for a long time.
a recent trip to a shop had me missing out by a day or two on some nice revolvers at awesome prices
so i've been hankering for a new gun since.
well i walked into a shop while making sales calls yesterday and low and behold a 629-4 with a 6 1/2" barrel for $750
SOLD!! didn't have to think twice
 

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