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Licensing question

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I am asking for an associate. No, it's not a girl; thus not hot and no pics. He's a coworker and going to get his ltc.

He currently lives in town A, where he will go through the app process. He already knows within a year or two he will be moving to town B. If he gets the ltc in town A, does he have to reapply for it when he moves to town B or just update his addy in the registry? I know it's a state license issued through the town, but I can't see towns passing up the chance to play a little pocket pool going for the wallet.

Thank you, colleagues.
 
He notifies the FRB, old town PD, and new town PD upon moving. That's it. No additional fees or re-aplication.
Pursuant to Massachusetts General Law Chapter 140, sections 129B and 131, a cardholder shall notify the licensing authority that issued such firearms license, the chief of police into whose jurisdiction such card holder moves, and the commissioner of the Department of Criminal Justice Information Services of any change of address within 30 days of its occurrence.

Failure to notify any of these entities shall be cause for revocation or suspension of the license.

 
It’s not required by law, but I’ve always sent these letters via certified mail, return receipt requested. Just like anything else legally significant with a deadline.
This is your protection when you go to renew and they say "you never notified us." With out the return receipts you have no proof you did summit the change of address.
 
It’s not required by law, but I’ve always sent these letters via certified mail, return receipt requested. Just like anything else legally significant with a deadline.

Actually it is required by law: MGL C140 S131(L)

... Any licensee shall notify, in writing, the licensing authority who issued said license, the chief of police into whose jurisdiction the licensee moves and the executive director of the criminal history systems board of any change of address. Such notification shall be made by certified mail within 30 days of its occurrence. Failure to so notify shall be cause for revocation or suspension of said license. ...

Note that the DCJIS/FRB change of address site only claims to notify the FRB of your address change and not the relevant police departments, and that S131(L) has never been changed to reflect the web site as a valid notification method. Not that I'm going to hold my breath until that happens.
 
It’s not required by law, but I’ve always sent these letters via certified mail, return receipt requested. Just like anything else legally significant with a deadline.
The bad thing is I've done thing and never received the return receipts from PDs and the FRB. My receipt from the Post Office is the only record.
 
Not saying what you're saying, I'm saying the MGls are saying it.

... Any licensee shall notify, in writing, the licensing authority who issued said license, the chief of police into whose jurisdiction the licensee moves and the executive director of the criminal history systems board of any change of address. Such notification shall be made by certified mail within 30 days of its occurrence. Failure to so notify shall be cause for revocation or suspension of said license. ...
 
Not saying what you're saying, I'm saying the MGls are saying it.

... Any licensee shall notify, in writing, the licensing authority who issued said license, the chief of police into whose jurisdiction the licensee moves and the executive director of the criminal history systems board of any change of address. Such notification shall be made by certified mail within 30 days of its occurrence. Failure to so notify shall be cause for revocation or suspension of said license. ...
HA
We’ll I’ll be damned! I didn’t know that (clearly!)
and thanks for correcting me
 
It's more poorly written law, of course and many departments don't care much about address changes - but if they suddenly want to care because you've come to their attention and they realize you haven't updated your address properly, you're screwed.
 
It's more poorly written law, of course and many departments don't care much about address changes - but if they suddenly want to care because you've come to their attention and they realize you haven't updated your address properly, you're screwed.
If you call the FRB they change the entry on the computer as you sit with them on the phone. It's the dumbest thing that the licensing officer in each town doesn't get a periodic update email with the licensing changes in their jurisdiction rather than paper mailed to them that half the time is getting filed in the trash.
 
If you call the FRB they change the entry on the computer as you sit with them on the phone. It's the dumbest thing that the licensing officer in each town doesn't get a periodic update email with the licensing changes in their jurisdiction rather than paper mailed to them that half the time is getting filed in the trash.
Even if they did get an emailed or online update from FRB about licensing activity in their town, it still wouldn't comply with the notification requirements in the MGLs. They could still revoke or suspend under 131(l).

Is this likely to happen? No, probably not.

Is it possible that it could happen? Yep. Could your lawyer successfully argue that you had satisfied the intent of 131(l) and shouldn't have been revoked? Maybe. Will that lawyer cost you more or less than sending 3 address change notifications by certified mail? More. A lot more. It's yet another MA gun law where you have to figure out your own risk tolerance.
 
If you call the FRB they change the entry on the computer as you sit with them on the phone. It's the dumbest thing that the licensing officer in each town doesn't get a periodic update email with the licensing changes in their jurisdiction rather than paper mailed to them that half the time is getting filed in the trash.
This was my experience too. Call FRB, they update, super easy.
 
Is it possible that it could happen? Yep. Could your lawyer successfully argue that you had satisfied the intent of 131(l) and shouldn't have been revoked? Maybe. Will that lawyer cost you more or less than sending 3 address change notifications by certified mail? More. A lot more. It's yet another MA gun law where you have to figure out your own risk tolerance.
Ideally the letter of the law would be updated, and should have been in 2014. But the legislature doesn't care and GOAL doesn't have the lobbying power.

I called the FRB when I moved to get the system up to date immediately and then sent the 3 letters.
 
Even if they did get an emailed or online update from FRB about licensing activity in their town, it still wouldn't comply with the notification requirements in the MGLs. They could still revoke or suspend under 131(l).

Is this likely to happen? No, probably not.

Is it possible that it could happen? Yep. Could your lawyer successfully argue that you had satisfied the intent of 131(l) and shouldn't have been revoked? Maybe. Will that lawyer cost you more or less than sending 3 address change notifications by certified mail? More. A lot more. It's yet another MA gun law where you have to figure out your own risk tolerance.
Is anyone actually concerned that the instructions on the official change of address form from the state's website isn't good enough to satisfy the state's own request to notify them when changing address? If we're going by the letter of the law how do you know mailing a letter to the Firearms Records Bureau actually satisfies the condition that you must notify "the executive director of the criminal history systems board." Was he notified? Did he get the form? What if you mailed a blank envelope? Certified letter receipt proves nothing other than you mailed an envelope and it was delivered in this pants-shitting scenario. My point is the state can jam you up any way they want if they so choose to.
 
Well, if your risk evaluation starts with the premise that the state can jam you up any way they want and there's nothing you can do about it, then not being concerned about this is a perfectly reasonable response. Mine starts with the premise that the state can jam you up at will, but I'm taking as many of the easy ways to get me off the table as I can. In that context, revocation for address change is easy for them to do. Once this comes to their attention and the PD decides they want to do something about it; 10 minutes in the PD licensing files, another 10 on the computer and a phone call and email to my issuing former town's licensing officer is about all it's going to take to get revoked. After that, I'd have to take them to court to get it back.

Like I said, you need to figure your own risk tolerance. Mailing those 3 certified letters is exactly the letter of the law - if I have those receipts, 131(l) now is going to require a lot of work to use against me. I'm not concerned if the CHSB Exec saw it personally (and I guarantee they didn't), 131(l) was satisfied by those receipts. Mailing a blank envelope would increase my risk, because I want those three organizations to have a paper copy of my address change, and in my file. If you think your regular, normal behavior makes it extremely unlikely that you would ever have a negative interaction with LEOs, then don't worry about it. The likelihood of occurrence is low, the consequences are moderate, you have determined that the risk is acceptable and no mitigation is needed. Carry on....
 
he would be wise to make sure he is planning on moving to a GREEN town. otherwise, renewal can come as a surprise
 
And assuming your local Post Office doesn't suck. Mine does. My local PO was 2 for 3 on following through with the certified signed return receipt. Their response was "no idea" where the 3rd one is. I explain the importance for the receipt, which also cost $7.85 and I'm getting forever stamp service, to the lady at the counter and and fortunately she was able to provide me a printout and document the signature from the PD in question. On the plus side the receipts I did actually receive were from the FRB and PD in the town I moved to.
 
What's the big deal just send the three letters notifying change of address by certified mail. Save the certified mail notice and your covered. Why is this so hard to understand?
 
Is it possible that it could happen? Yep. Could your lawyer successfully argue that you had satisfied the intent of 131(l) and shouldn't have been revoked? Maybe. Will that lawyer cost you more or less than sending 3 address change notifications by certified mail? More. A lot more. It's yet another MA gun law where you have to figure out your own risk tolerance.
The proper approach would be for the attorney to argue that the public notification, by an official state agency, that online updating was acceptable created a entrapment by estoppel defense and that the charges should be dropped. The state no doubt knows this and would be unlikely to be so foolish as to prosecute someone for following a procedure offered by the state, on the "ma.gov" website, instead of following the letter of the law.
 
Have a friend who moved from MA to RI about two years ago, he had a MA LTC when he moved. He never notified the issuing town in MA that he moved. His MA LTC is still active, set to expire in a month or two. It's plausible that he'll move back to MA someday as most of his family is still in MA and he works in MA and he's also planning on applying for his RI LTC. Are there any repercussions if he does the move notification now or should he consult an attorney?
 
Is anyone actually concerned that the instructions on the official change of address form from the state's website isn't good enough to satisfy the state's own request to notify them when changing address? If we're going by the letter of the law how do you know mailing a letter to the Firearms Records Bureau actually satisfies the condition that you must notify "the executive director of the criminal history systems board." Was he notified? Did he get the form? What if you mailed a blank envelope? Certified letter receipt proves nothing other than you mailed an envelope and it was delivered in this pants-shitting scenario. My point is the state can jam you up any way they want if they so choose to.

It's not the state I would care about, they're not going to come after you. They don't have the resources for something that petty. It's going to be the douche towns.

While this is true (that you could mail someone an empty envelope) let's put it this way, it's called a "good faith demonstration". Why would a reasonable person go through all that trouble to send an empty envelope to someone via certified mail? Having those receipts on hand demonstrates good faith to the judge or whoever if you're dealing with one of these problems. It makes it so your attorney can tell a douche town to go f*** itself.

That said the whole "getting rousted for failure to file COA" is rare as hell, probably rarer than even the AWB violation charge garbage is. But IMHO its free bingo space to
avoid by getting the 2 or 3 certified mail receipts. Why not take the nearly-free bingo space to insulate yourself from that?

On the other hand if you move into a MegaDoucheTown, those are exactly the kind of shit eating rights violating a**h***s that will use that as an excuse to try to f*** you over failure to file. Like if you're moving into a shithole like Brookline, Watertown, Lowell, etc.... issuing authorities that would love to f*** every gun owner directly up the ass if they could get away with it, you bet your ass if shown the hand they are going to try to play it. We've seen it here in the past, some guy came on here with some issuing authority that had searched his house because of some landlord faggotry and they found "gun paraphenalia" and then the kopsch actually looked up the address and didnt find him on file and challenged him about it. (long before MIRCS even, a lot of big dump cities and shit red towns literally have LTC holder databases, flagging various residences for dogs and firearms to tell the officers about before they get there.... )

Basically every MA douche town WRT guns is like that annoying hall monitor kid depicted in various 80s and 90s tv shows and movies. You give them an invitation and those motherf***ers are like "EYME TELLIN! [rofl]

Of course the better option is to not live in a douche town or even this state, but you already knew that.
 
The proper approach would be for the attorney to argue that the public notification, by an official state agency, that online updating was acceptable created a entrapment by estoppel defense and that the charges should be dropped. The state no doubt knows this and would be unlikely to be so foolish as to prosecute someone for following a procedure offered by the state, on the "ma.gov" website, instead of following the letter of the law.

Thats great but I'm sure having your attorney embarass the police chief in a private meeting or phone call "I have evidence that my client notified properly, in my hand, right now. " is a hell of a lot cheaper than bringing an entrapment via estoppel defense into a courtroom.
 
It's not the state I would care about, they're not going to come after you. They don't have the resources for something that petty. It's going to be the douche towns.
It is considered so minor that the protection provided by an expired LTC (offense is a civil one of carrying with an expired LTC, not bein unlicensed which is a criminal offense) is terminated for any revocation of the LTC other than "failure to file a change of address".
Thats great but I'm sure having your attorney embarass the police chief in a private meeting or phone call "I have evidence that my client notified properly, in my hand, right now. " is a hell of a lot cheaper than bringing an entrapment via estoppel defense into a courtroom.
I was referring to the edge case that will probably never occur when the state goes after someone for failure to file a change of address because they used a state recommended method (online) instead of the method prescribed by law. I doubt any "failure to file a change of address" case will ever even hit a courtroom.
 
I asked earlier but didn’t see any replies, although it does look like I woke up this thread so gonna try again:

Have a friend who moved from MA to RI about two years ago, he had a MA LTC when he moved. He never notified the issuing town in MA that he moved. His MA LTC is still active, set to expire in a month or two. It's plausible that he'll move back to MA someday as most of his family is still in MA and he works in MA and he's also planning on applying for his RI LTC. Are there any repercussions if he does the move notification now or should he consult an attorney?
 
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