Letter to keep in your safe - No bonded storage

[1903Collector]

Just read thru this whole thread, now I have a headache......

 

[Cmaro21]

Just read thru this whole thread, now I have a headache......

Sorry man, this next one won't help you then... So I just wanted to recap a little and make sure I have this information down to the best of my knowledge. Btw, thank you for giving all of us a sample of your Gun Law course Lens, it is much appreciated.


A letter on your safe may or may not do anything to sway the police's procedure when confiscating firearms for the revocation of an LTC or issuing a 209A

Wouldn't the acting PDs procedures take precedence here? I would assume that unless arrangements were made with the local PD prior to any actions their s o p will take over.
I would not think that a letter from Epstien's mom's attorney is likely to over ride procedure.

Yes.

While going through your safe / house, they can and most likely will rummage through everything. Maybe keep heirlooms, valuables and money in a separate location from the firearms.

The PD will do whatever they want to do regardless of any letters, videos, etc. They may also confiscate the HDD/obscure the camera. Having worked for 4 chiefs and talked with others, they don't take orders from other than their direct boss very well (understatement). Yes, they may rummage thru all your stuff. Basically you have no legal recourse that will work in court or elsewhere.

I would expect them to search the house pretty thoroughly and not just take anyone's word for what is there or not.

Preemptively moving your guns out of your location (not transferring, just moving) so that when the JBT's show up to collect they aren't there will not exactly work. You may even be charged with a separate felony. In my opinion, you may also be opening up the person holding your firearms to a world of shit.

MGL C. 209A is the MA version of the Fed Law "Lautenberg Act", Google it to be informed. It REQUIRES confiscation in all 57 (thank you Obama) states and US Territories. A MA PD will call the location (outside MA) where they are stored and have the PD there confiscate everything there. It's not optional. Failure to hand everything over IMMEDIATELY (or tell them where remote stuff is located) is a separate FELONY under MGL C. 269 S. 10 and will stand alone even if the 209A is dismissed.

Any suspicion of holding out and they will charge you with the C. 269 S. 10 felony and let the DA and courts deal with it. At that point they will come in with a search warrant and if they feel stuff is hidden in the walls, they will smash them too to find them.

Question regarding the above, if you did move your firearms to NH and they sent the locals to retrieve these firearms, how would they distingush what is yours and the person holding onto the weapons? Could they confiscate everything, even their guns, and screw the person over who was trying to help you?


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And here's proof-positive of what I stated from an attorney!


Letters might work, but only if the PD cooperates (many won't) and doesn't IMMEDIATELY hand everything over to the bonded warehouse. This is why we MUST support www.comm2a.org and donate regularly and liberally. The Jarvis v. Village Vault case must overturn the bonded warehouses or result in reasonable regulation to kill off this cash cow for them and screw job for us!


You have no effective legal recourse in a MA court if they don't do as you request. Only maybe in a Fed court, if the case is one Comm2A might take and win, but that is a long haul and by then the guns are long gone anyway.

So in all, a letter on your safe may or may not work. It probably can't hurt to paste one on it and put one inside it.

I have one I wrote and it's on my safes. It's something we have toyed around with the idea of releasing it as a template but we need a lawyer to sign off on it and we need to figure out where the line is for Comm2a before we are found to be practicing without a license. If folks are interested, I can drive it to the top of the pile and see if we can release it.

Thanks terraformer, if you release this please let us know!
If something ever does happen to you, it is best to have an FFL pre-arragned who you have a notarized letter on file with who shall come take possession of your firearms ASAP and prevent them from going to bonded storage. After the cops contact you (if they do) or after they leave with your firearms, your first call should be to this FFL and your attorney to ensure that the firearms end up where you wish them to go.

I have quite a fee people who have letters on file with me should anything happen to them. I even have it set up so my ass is covered in a similar fashion too.

The Massachusetts law, MGL 140-129 unfortunately doesn't mean shit because no one is going to enforce this upon the locals. It is best to do as the statement above says.
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129d.htm

Such person, or his legal representative, shall have the right, at any time up to one year after said delivery or surrender, to transfer such firearms, rifles, shotguns and machine guns and ammunition to any licensed dealer or any other person legally permitted to purchase or take possession of such firearms, rifles, shotguns and machine guns and ammunition and upon notification in writing by the purchaser or transferee and the former owner, the licensing authority shall within ten days deliver such firearms, rifles, shotguns and machine guns and ammunition to the transferee or purchaser and due care shall be observed by the licensing authority in the receipt and holding of any such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun and ammunition.

Please correct me if I am wrong in any of that. I appreciate all the feedback and discussion regarding this. The whole thread has brought up the questions I have already asked above and a few more.


Question 1 - Guns are taken by locals. FFL goes to PD to collect firearms, they are already in BondedStorage. Can the FFL per the MGL 140-129d remove them from bonded storage for you? If they were there for less than a day you would assumably only pay the indoc and outdoc fee?


Question 2 - Your guns are collected by FFL at the local PD. Time passes, girl was a lying who** and the 209a is dropped. You get your LTC back and are allowed to collect your guns. Some of the guns are not on the mass register like newer glocks that you have collected and pretty much 90% of the nice stuff that you can't get in MA. Can the dealer release these back to you? I guess I am unsure if the FFL possession is done by transfer (fa-10) out of your name into the FFL's and then transferred back once you regain your LTC.


Thanks again for all the info on this so far!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Sorry man, this next one won't help you then... So I just wanted to recap a little and make sure I have this information down to the best of my knowledge. Btw, thank you for giving all of us a sample of your Gun Law course Lens, it is much appreciated.

Question regarding the above, if you did move your firearms to NH and they sent the locals to retrieve these firearms, how would they distingush what is yours and the person holding onto the weapons? Could they confiscate everything, even their guns, and screw the person over who was trying to help you?


The Massachusetts law, MGL 140-129 unfortunately doesn't mean shit because no one is going to enforce this upon the locals. It is best to do as the statement above says.
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129d.htm

Please correct me if I am wrong in any of that. I appreciate all the feedback and discussion regarding this. The whole thread has brought up the questions I have already asked above and a few more.


Question 1 - Guns are taken by locals. FFL goes to PD to collect firearms, they are already in BondedStorage. Can the FFL per the MGL 140-129d remove them from bonded storage for you? If they were there for less than a day you would assumably only pay the indoc and outdoc fee?


Question 2 - Your guns are collected by FFL at the local PD. Time passes, girl was a lying who** and the 209a is dropped. You get your LTC back and are allowed to collect your guns. Some of the guns are not on the mass register like newer glocks that you have collected and pretty much 90% of the nice stuff that you can't get in MA. Can the dealer release these back to you? I guess I am unsure if the FFL possession is done by transfer (fa-10) out of your name into the FFL's and then transferred back once you regain your LTC.

I've personally asked a few MA PDs how they handle confiscation when multiple people own guns and only one person is getting jacked up. Each answer is the same, they take them all regardless of who owns them! I can't say how NH PDs would handle it, but having worked for a PD and responded to domestic disputes, my guess is that they would do the same. Now comes the BIG difference . . . after the fact, the other owners would be able to retrieve their goods (assuming they can prove ownership, so bills of sale can be important here) from the PD. ONLY MA has "bonded warehouses" (big black hole where guns/ammo/mags/scopes/etc. disappear).

Since MGL allows PDs to ship everything (regardless of reason) to a bonded warehouse and does not mandate that they store them at the PD for any minimum time, once they are gone the PD can't give them back and you are now stuck with a "contractual agreement" with a bonded warehouse which you never agreed to. You are stuck with whatever fees (sky is the limit) and terms the bonded warehouse insists upon. You really don't have any legal recourse against anyone at the state level. Comm2A's Jarvis v. Village Vault (and the Commiewealth for no regulations) is our only hope and it's been 2 years since it was filed. Guns are long gone and all that Jarvis can hope to ever get (maybe) is some compensation for the loss and perhaps new rules that minimize the abuse.

Question 2 is a very good question and I honestly do not know the answer to that. When they are confiscated and given to a bonded warehouse, they don't do FA-10s out of your name and into the bonded warehouse's name, they just go in the Federal (only) Bound Book for the BATFE! I assume that if you go to get them back that the bonded warehouse probably has to do 4473s and MIRCS (FA-10s) back to you on each one, but am not positive about this. If so, I don't see any exemption for the MA Dealer wrt S. 123 and the EOPS List and AG Regs.