Let’s talk rifles...

How can you honestly recommend a shrubmaster ACR to anybody? That rifle is tard stupid WRT to how far off the track and overpriced it is. With overpriced secondary products from Remington. Freedom Group Remington (And current bank owned Remington) can burn in hell. Get a Mini if you're full on budget. Otherwise Get a Tavor/X95, Bren or MCX. M1A if you want a .308. You'll get a lot more for your money than anybody's budget AR (500$ preban ii) that they're asking 1500$ for.

A Mini runs about $700-800 right now and you'll still have to tinker with it. Change out the gas block for an adjustable one, or change the bushing, accu-strut. You've got a couple extra hundred you'll have to dump into it and it's still not going to shoot any better than 2-3 MOA. Mine's run me well over a grand at this point.

At least with the AR you can strip it down to the receiver and re-build it exactly how you want it.

I do like the looks of the Tavor and Bren, though. The MCX is stupidly overpriced, as is SA's M1A offering. Personally, I'd get a Garand over an M1A.
 
I have a friend who swears by Nikon. I don't know, never had one. Have you tried a Mueller? They have a nice tactical 8-32x that is reasonably priced. Not a bad scope. Alot of rimfire guys use it. I had one that failed. They replaced it with a brand new one in less than a week. Very happy with their service.

I have a Leupold that failed and I sent it in. It has been a week so far...got an email saying they will send it (or replacement) in 24 days.

But, for the more refined palate, the Vortex Viper PST G2 is amazing.

I have the Mueller 4.5-14 AO Tactical, it’s fantastic. Hard to find another optic with Adjustable Objective for anywhere near the $175 retail price.
 
Your first rifle should be a platform capable of defending yourself and your family from criminals and tyrants.
Worry about the .22 later...

OP, my post was not to say that a .22 rifle is a bad "first rifle", quite the opposite. The .22 rifle is the foundation of shooting sports and I would never diminish its importance to training and technique.

Rather, what I meant was, there are Forces that are actively trying to keep you and other new shooters from getting access to those platforms that were
designed to keep you Safe and Free.

As you already know, it is harder now than it was a couple of July's ago to buy certain platforms here in the Commonwealth. Likewise it was harder after 1994 to buy those same rifles with all their options and qualities. I, luckily am older and started down the same road many years before you and have all that I could ever need.

If you choose not to get a proven battle rifle now, when the time comes that you want/need one... you may not find one.

I wish you Luck and Joy on your quest.
~Matt
 
A Mini runs about $700-800 right now and you'll still have to tinker with it. Change out the gas block for an adjustable one, or change the bushing, accu-strut. You've got a couple extra hundred you'll have to dump into it and it's still not going to shoot any better than 2-3 MOA. Mine's run me well over a grand at this point.

At least with the AR you can strip it down to the receiver and re-build it exactly how you want it.

I do like the looks of the Tavor and Bren, though. The MCX is stupidly overpriced, as is SA's M1A offering. Personally, I'd get a Garand over an M1A.
I agree with just about everything posted. Though I stand by I'm not paying 1500-2000$ for somebody's budget AR (granted have my own) and then spending up to another 400-500 to make it what I want. That's just stupid. I'd say the MCX is overpriced, but probably 300-500$ so. I noticed SA's M1A has gotten stupid expensive lately* I remember the 16" model being 1200-1400$ and now everybody wants 1600-1800 for them, which is stupid as well. I do think the M1 is a better offering than what most people are going to do with the M1A.
 
If you choose not to get a proven battle rifle now, when the time comes that you want/need one... you may not find one.

This is an important way to look at it imo. Buy what you think you may need now when its cheap and easy. Dont wait until some horrendous law is being pushed through or some other event is happening and the line is out the door for $1800 AR's and 556 is no where to be found. Slowly accumulate things when things are quiet and its cheap and easy to do so.
 
If we add .308 to the mix a century C308 piques my interest. $600-700 for the rifle and $5-10 preban dated magazines. Only downside is the Expensive ammo.
 
I have a friend who swears by Nikon. I don't know, never had one. Have you tried a Mueller? They have a nice tactical 8-32x that is reasonably priced. Not a bad scope. Alot of rimfire guys use it. I had one that failed. They replaced it with a brand new one in less than a week. Very happy with their service.

I have a Leupold that failed and I sent it in. It has been a week so far...got an email saying they will send it (or replacement) in 24 days.

But, for the more refined palate, the Vortex Viper PST G2 is amazing.
i have a mueller 8x32x44 tactical side focus. Its been very good for $250 i went with the tactical for the added hold over with the mildot reticle knowing the mueller side focus only has 20 moa from center on the turrets.
I only have one luepold scope a 2.5x8x32 duplex ret. 1st gen VX-III been on everything you can think of for the past 30 years.
Luepold will actually fix your scope also vs mueller most likey just sends a new one
my current "long range," optic is a sightron SEIII 8x32x56 moa 2 reticle i like it as it has a .25 moa dot in the center and then moa hash marks. Its on my AR set up for 600 yard prone with 80 grain bullets. Although i have not been out to 600 yards more than a few times with that set up.....just so busy with the kids getting a day to travel out to 600 yard range is hard.
 
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I agree with just about everything posted. Though I stand by I'm not paying 1500-2000$ for somebody's budget AR (granted have my own) and then spending up to another 400-500 to make it what I want. That's just stupid. I'd say the MCX is overpriced, but probably 300-500$ so. I noticed SA's M1A has gotten stupid expensive lately* I remember the 16" model being 1200-1400$ and now everybody wants 1600-1800 for them, which is stupid as well. I do think the M1 is a better offering than what most people are going to do with the M1A.
The 16" socom or what ever it is has always beem a bit costly
Poke around on the " gun bargin " type web sites.
Tbe M1a standard can be found for $1200 and sometimes less. Also bula/james river is putting out a M1a standard for around $1400
although for that price i would buy a cmp service grade M1 some spare parts and 1000 rounds of PPU m2 ball while its somewhat cheap
 
i have a mueller 8x32x44 tactical side focus. Its been very good for $250 i went with the tactical for the added hold over with the mildot reticle knowing the mueller side focus only has 20 moa from center on the turrets.
I only have one luepold scope a 2.5x8x32 duplex ret. 1st gen VX-III been on everything you can think of for the past 30 years.
Luepold will actually fix your scope also vs mueller most likey just sends a new one
my current "long range," optic is a sightron SEIII 8x32x56 moa 2 reticle i like it as it has a .25 moa dot in the center and then moa hash marks. Its on my AR set up for 600 yard prone with 80 grain bullets. Although i have not been out to 600 yards more than a few times with that set up.....just so busy with the kids getting a day to travel out to 600 yard range is hard.

I have been looking at the Sightrons. They released some models with zero stop, which I want. I like the center dot on these scopes. The Mueller I got for free is going to be sold off. Someone will get a decent deal since it hasn't been mounted or anything. I will have to post it here at some point. Can't seem to figure out how to post for sale yet. I have a bunch of things I want to sell "locally".

I was hoping Luepold would send me a new one too....
 
I have been looking at the Sightrons. They released some models with zero stop, which I want. I like the center dot on these scopes. The Mueller I got for free is going to be sold off. Someone will get a decent deal since it hasn't been mounted or anything. I will have to post it here at some point. Can't seem to figure out how to post for sale yet. I have a bunch of things I want to sell "locally".

I was hoping Luepold would send me a new one too....
I like the sightron. Although in hind sight zero stop would be nice. I'm trying to plan to get out to the last 600 yArd prone match for the year. If I don't that sightron may end up on my 10/22 project or even the 513t
 

IIRC, the savage model 11 is a thinner barrel profile than their 10. it would likely shoot well. the nikon 3-9x BDC optics are meh. the BDC will be accurate at 9x but the problem is at 9x is where these low quality optics really go to shit. the 4 rd mags for this model 11 will cost $50+ and are not compatible with any other rifles.

if you want a savage i would go with the model 10. I had one of these and it was a phenomenal 308:
10 FCP-SR Accustock .308 Win 20 10 Round Black Savage 22442

based on your earlier posting, i still think your best bet for a bolt action 223 would be a ruger american that now uses the AR pattern mags
American Ranch .223 Rem / 5.56 16.12 10 Round Flat Dark Earth / Black Ruger 26965

a primary arms 1-6x ACSS is a good value (optics planet has 10% coupon for 4th of july), and down the road you could move this to an AR and be happy with it there
Primary Arms 1-6x24mm GEN III ACSS Riflescope, Color: Black, Tube Diameter: 30 mm, Up to $10.09 Off, Free Gift — Free Two Day Shipping — 3 models

for rings,
Warne 7213M (low mount aluminum) - pricy but fantastic
EGW EGW 30mm Practical Aluminum Rings .840": EGW Gun Parts
lots of cheaper options out there, i think leuopold and vortex have cheap options

the advantage to the above suggestion is that your mags and optic will be AR-compatible, so down the road if you acquire an AR (or tavor, bren, whatever) you'll already be invested in the right magazines and a useful optic.
 
I appreciate everyone's input on this thread. I think I spent hours googling to find out what the hell you guys were even talking about lol. In the end I was looking for value with this being my first rifle & cost of ammo was a big decision where as I figure I'm gonna be doing quite a bit of shooting in the beginning to get comfortable with the weapon. I also wanted something with a little more oomph then a .22 so the .223 was the caliber of choice. This is what I ended up going with.

Savage® Arms 12 FV Bolt-Action Varmint Rifles : Cabela's

Having a Cabela's scope mounted (looking to keep this on the low end)
 
Take a look on Amazon for optics before giving all your money to Cabelas. I found a new Leupold VXR Patrol for $150 less than what Cabelas or KTP were selling them for.

It is a great optic and the fire dot reticle is outstanding in normal and low light conditions. Im still getting dead on. sub 1 inch groups at 100 yards after hundreds of rounds through my Sig 716 on its initial zero. Not bad for decent mileage with 308 recoil.


I
Leupold-Firedot-1-1024x736.jpg
 
I appreciate everyone's input on this thread. I think I spent hours googling to find out what the hell you guys were even talking about lol. In the end I was looking for value with this being my first rifle & cost of ammo was a big decision where as I figure I'm gonna be doing quite a bit of shooting in the beginning to get comfortable with the weapon. I also wanted something with a little more oomph then a .22 so the .223 was the caliber of choice. This is what I ended up going with.

Savage® Arms 12 FV Bolt-Action Varmint Rifles : Cabela's

Having a Cabela's scope mounted (looking to keep this on the low end)

You could have done alot worse. They are good out of the box. You can change the barrel very easily. You have lots of aftermarket parts out there. If you decide you want to go down the road of precision shooting, you can drop it in a chassis and go. Good buy! Do you handload? I find the Hornady 68, and 75 match grade to be great. But pricey. My Tikka loves this stuff. One reason I built up my 22 is to avoid paying 0.8-1 dollar for the 223. Now, at 10 cents a round for the 22, I can hone my skills and use the 223 for 500+ yard only.
 
I appreciate everyone's input on this thread. I think I spent hours googling to find out what the hell you guys were even talking about lol. In the end I was looking for value with this being my first rifle & cost of ammo was a big decision where as I figure I'm gonna be doing quite a bit of shooting in the beginning to get comfortable with the weapon. I also wanted something with a little more oomph then a .22 so the .223 was the caliber of choice. This is what I ended up going with.

Savage® Arms 12 FV Bolt-Action Varmint Rifles : Cabela's

Having a Cabela's scope mounted (looking to keep this on the low end)
my friends son is new to shooting and bought the same gun. He's happy getting close to MOA groups with creedmoor 68 grain and this scope
Leupold VX-3i 4.5-14x40mm Side Focus Riflescope, Color: Black, Tube Diameter: 30 mm, Up to 31% Off w/ Free Shipping — 12 model
He told me he had to play with the action screws , to tight it wonders to loose it shoots well then falls apart. Almost literally. I forget what torque he settled on. He's 19 and only been shooting for a short time
 
Take a look on Amazon for optics before giving all your money to Cabelas. I found a new Leupold VXR Patrol for $150 less than what Cabelas or KTP were selling them for.

It is a great optic and the fire dot reticle is outstanding in normal and low light conditions. Im still getting dead on. sub 1 inch groups at 100 yards after hundreds of rounds through my Sig 716 on its initial zero. Not bad for decent mileage with 308 recoil.


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Leupold-Firedot-1-1024x736.jpg


I saved about $300 on my VX-R Patrol 4-12x40 with the Firedot-G TMR reticle through Amazon. Buy using the Comm2A link and help support the cause while you're at it!
 
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