legalaity of mag extensions

[ReluctantDecoy]

I was just typing out a "so wait, this seems to me like my 'blocked' mags are a little sketchier than initially thought". That said, idgaf and I'm not concerned, just an interestingly worded bit of that

Well, like it said...it's a risk tolerance thing. I suppose one could epoxy the baseplates.

 

[1903Collector]

when I had a G27 I had 10 round mags that had the restricted LE only crap on them...I had no f***ing clue what to do with those!

 

[Mesatchornug]

Well, like it said...it's a risk tolerance thing. I suppose one could epoxy the baseplates.

it also depends how they're blocked. There's a difference between a blocker that's loose (like the plug in a waterfowl shotgun) and one that's part of the baseplate assembly.

At some point, a lot of this becomes like the idea that any firearm (or shotgun, or rifle) that uses detachable magazines necessarily accepts LCFDs, making it a "Large Capacity" firearm. Yet the guidance has become something like "that only matters if you're also in possession of said LCFDs."

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

it also depends how they're blocked. There's a difference between a blocker that's loose (like the plug in a waterfowl shotgun) and one that's part of the baseplate assembly.

At some point, a lot of this becomes like the idea that any firearm (or shotgun, or rifle) that uses detachable magazines necessarily accepts LCFDs, making it a "Large Capacity" firearm. Yet the guidance has become something like "that only matters if you're also in possession of said LCFDs."

But if the blocker is part of the baseplate assembly, couldn't one just break that off and/or just replace the baseplate with a standard cap baseplate? That's probably me overthinking it, but I'm a self-admitting p*ssy when it comes to legal risk tolerance.

 

[MAJoe]

it also depends how they're blocked. There's a difference between a blocker that's loose (like the plug in a waterfowl shotgun) and one that's part of the baseplate assembly.

In my head, I also rationalize that if a gun manufacturer sells it blocked that way and includes with gun sold in MA vs what a local dealer does to make mags compliant, bears different weight.

 

[Mesatchornug]

But if the blocker is part of the baseplate assembly, couldn't one just break that off and/or just replace the baseplate with a standard cap baseplate? That's probably me overthinking it, but I'm a self-admitting p*ssy when it comes to legal risk tolerance.

By that theory, one can break the feature that fixes a magazine and install new ones. If someone needs to break a component (or otherwise use tools) is it "easily" modifiable?

In my head, I also rationalize that if a gun manufacturer sells it blocked that way and includes with gun sold in MA vs what a local dealer does to make mags compliant, bears different weight.

Could be true. I'm not a lawyer, nor a FFL.

Obviously, we need to make our own decisions, and my acceptance of risk isn't necessarily (either of) yours. But if a dealer sells it to me in the Commonwealth as a 10-round magazine, it seems reasonable to take their position as a guide point - they're subject to inspection and responsible for not selling post ban LCFDs except to LE - I'll probably accept the risk.

 

[LakeTrout]

If you only own post ban mags, skip the extension — you can’t use it so what’s the point?

I can see people wanting to own them in case we go to a scenario where society has collapsed. Would be nice to have as much capacity as you can at that point. If you can legally own something that you could use in that event to bring your magazines back up to standard capacity, that would be a lot easier than going out and trying to find standard capacity magazines at that point.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I can see people wanting to own them in case we go to a scenario where society has collapsed. Would be nice to have as much capacity as you can at that point. If you can legally own something that you could use in that event to bring your magazines back up to standard capacity, that would be a lot easier than going out and trying to find standard capacity magazines at that point.

Will those people run magazines they haven't tested in this new configuration in life or death situations?

Probably cheaper/easier/safer to buy more 10-rd mags...

 

[M1911]

I can see people wanting to own them in case we go to a scenario where society has collapsed. Would be nice to have as much capacity as you can at that point. If you can legally own something that you could use in that event to bring your magazines back up to standard capacity, that would be a lot easier than going out and trying to find standard capacity magazines at that point.

Just learn how to change mags quickly.

 

[LakeTrout]

Will those people run magazines they haven't tested in this new configuration in life or death situations?

Probably cheaper/easier/safer to buy more 10-rd mags...

I think if they’re reputable pieces of equipment that others generally use without issue, then ya sure. I would. I have plenty of magazines I haven’t tested either that I would use. Also, in that scenario I’d probably put them together then shoot them to see and make sure they’re good. Even more of us would have a spot to shoot at nearby to test, when laws like the 500 foot rule are no longer being enforced.

But, In all fairness I probably wouldn’t go out of my way to do this for pistol mags. Now, if you could do it to convert 10 round to 30 round AR mags, I’d say it’s a great idea. But converting a 10 round to a 12 round glock mag or something isn’t worth it to me. Some who live in that shit hole state would probably get a boner over being able to finally have a greater than 10 capacity magazine though. So for those folks, I’d say go for it. And make sure you send a few into the dirt in your bag yard with them when society breaks down just to test.

 

[LakeTrout]

Just learn how to change mags quickly.

Practicing this is a good idea regardless of your magazine capacity. But having the most capacity as possible is also a good idea.

 

[M1911]

Practicing this is a good idea regardless of your magazine capacity. But having the most capacity as possible is also a good idea.

But opening yourself up to a felony conviction in case of TEOTWAWKI is a not a prudent plan.

 

[Mesatchornug]

But opening yourself up to a felony conviction in case of TEOTWAWKI is a not a prudent plan.

Right. At that point, it's big boy pants time - just buy oneself some std cap mags and be done with it.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Right. At that point, it's big boy pants time - just buy oneself some std low cap mags and be done with it.

FIFY

 

[LakeTrout]

But opening yourself up to a felony conviction in case of TEOTWAWKI is a not a prudent plan.

No it’s not. And I’m not suggesting to do that. if it is legal to own these as long as you don’t currently attach them, then I can see it making sense to own and then attach later if the end of the world scenario happens.

 

[Mesatchornug]

FIFY

I said what I meant.

For someone who is taking the risk of having extensions that they believe put them in legal risk, they might as well buy the real thing.

To be clear - this is not advice, just navelgazing.

 

[LakeTrout]

Right. At that point, it's big boy pants time - just buy oneself some std cap mags and be done with it.

You might not be able to walk into a gun store and buy standard cap mags at that point. Especially those who live in areas where they are currently illegal. Even those who live where they are legal are going to be competing with the masses who suddenly realize they need these things and are all going to rush out and buy them now. We know what that is like. We should have learned to plan a bit ahead by now. So if there is a way to legally own something now that will allow you to not have to compete with the masses when bad stuff goes down, it may be worth considering to some.

 

[LakeTrout]

I said what I meant.

For someone who is taking the risk of having extensions that they believe put them in legal risk, they might as well buy the real thing.

To be clear - this is not advice, just navelgazing.

I agree with that. If it is illegal to own, or questionable then it’s not a good idea. Doesn’t buy you much. And if you were going to go illegal, might as well go all in and get the real thing. It’s only worth considering if it’s clearly legal.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

By that theory, one can break the feature that fixes a magazine and install new ones. If someone needs to break a component (or otherwise use tools) is it "easily" modifiable?

It is possible I didn't understand what you were describing. What I was describing was: A purpose-built limited magazine (A 10 rd Glock 17 OEM mag, for instance) would have interior metal rails built into the metal sleeve. Glock does this by putting a triangle shaped rail running the length of the interior of the magazine. Yes, one could grind them off, but at the possibility of losing all structural integrity of the interior sleeve. But for a baseplate with built in block, it would be far easier to just snap off the block (most likely plastic), assuming the baseplate isn't permanently fixed on the mag housing. But again, maybe I misunderstood the scenario.

A third option exists though, now that I think of it. Compliant Glock Pmags just have short mag tubes that meet an solid extension to get the length without the possibility of capacity.

 

[Mesatchornug]

It is possible I didn't understand what you were describing. What I was describing was: A purpose-built limited magazine (A 10 rd Glock 17 OEM mag, for instance) would have interior metal rails built into the metal sleeve. Glock does this by putting a triangle shaped rail running the length of the interior of the magazine. Yes, one could grind them off, but at the possibility of losing all structural integrity of the interior sleeve. But for a baseplate with built in block, it would be far easier to just snap off the block (most likely plastic), assuming the baseplate isn't permanently fixed on the mag housing. But again, maybe I misunderstood the scenario.

A third option exists though, now that I think of it. Compliant Glock Pmags just have short mag tubes that meet an solid extension to get the length without the possibility of capacity.

You understood correctly.

That baseplate is manufactured to block the travel of the follower. Breaking it is, effectively, manufacturing a new component. That requires effort and possibly tools to do. That's not - in my mind, at least - readily converted. IIRC, this is how Hexmag makes their 10/30 rd magazines.

If it's good enough for a company with their threat profile, I'll accept it from my friendly neighborhood FFL-07 who modified the baseplate of a magazine for a pistol that isn't yet available with 10 rounders.

Again, not advice, just my thinking.

 

[Compooky]

I’m curious about this too. Isn’t the new question about whether standard mags that accept 10 rounds or less that can use an extension that puts it over 10 makes all mags technically considered “readily converted”? For example, a 10 round G26 or G48 mag. Not talking about neutered mags.

 

[Marty McFly]

I’m curious about this too. Isn’t the new question about whether standard mags that accept 10 rounds or less that can use an extension that puts it over 10 makes all mags technically considered “readily converted”? For example, a 10 round G26 or G48 mag. Not talking about neutered mags.

Please do not make the pant shitters start bringing thier baseplates for a pin and weld

 

[Compooky]

Please do not make the pant shitters start bringing thier baseplates for a pin and weld

It’s NES. Fear mongering and pants shitting is how we pass the time.

 

[Marty McFly]

It’s NES. Fear mongering and pants shitting is how we pass the time.

So it's go time then?

 

[Marty McFly]

You understood correctly.

That baseplate is manufactured to block the travel of the follower. Breaking it is, effectively, manufacturing a new component. That requires effort and possibly tools to do. That's not - in my mind, at least - readily converted. IIRC, this is how Hexmag makes their 10/30 rd magazines.

If it's good enough for a company with their threat profile, I'll accept it from my friendly neighborhood FFL-07 who modified the baseplate of a magazine for a pistol that isn't yet available with 10 rounders.

Again, not advice, just my thinking.

Does the exterior of the mag say 10?

 

[Mesatchornug]

Does the exterior of the mag say 10?

I don't think there are any external capacity markings. I believe the use the same body, and sell it with different internal limiters. I only own GI mags, so I haven't investigated them closely.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

"Readily converted" in my mind is the key factor. For instance, mags where you take a baseplate off and remove space blocker and put the mag back together--those are the mags that come to mind.

"in my mind" is a very faulty assumption.

• Since the law does not clearly define the term "readily modifiable", it can be interpreted to any extreme. Case in point: ATF's new rule interprets existing law to mean that 80% of AR lowers are firearms because they are "easily machinable" into a fully functional receiver. Companies are challenging the rule in court because they interpret the law differently.
• Let's assume "Readily convertible" means that no additional parts are needed to extend the mag(ex. Glock mag extensions). Well, during the 2020 shortages, when regular capacity magazines were scarce, some dude with a VERY southern/redneck accent posted a youtube video of how one can take a limited 10rd Beretta/CZ/SIG-looking metal magazine, and drill out the two limiter dimples with a cordless drill, and turning a gimp mag into a standard one.
• Your statement, "The limited capacity mags I use typically have permanent rails inside that are part of the mag body construction." really means a Glock-style of magazine construction. This is not how the majority of metal magazines are made. Your interpretation of a particular construction method makes a large portion of guns on the MA Gun Roster illegal due to a different(see the second bullet point) way of magazine construction.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

"in my mind" is a very faulty assumption.

• Since the law does not clearly define the term "readily modifiable", it can be interpreted to any extreme. Case in point: ATF's new rule interprets existing law to mean that 80% of AR lowers are firearms because they are "easily machinable" into a fully functional receiver. Companies are challenging the rule in court because they interpret the law differently.
• Let's assume "Readily convertible" means that no additional parts are needed to extend the mag(ex. Glock mag extensions). Well, during the 2020 shortages, when regular capacity magazines were scarce, some dude with a VERY southern/redneck accent posted a youtube video of how one can take a limited 10rd Beretta/CZ/SIG-looking metal magazine, and drill out the two limiter dimples with a cordless drill, and turning a gimp mag into a standard one.
• Your statement, "The limited capacity mags I use typically have permanent rails inside that are part of the mag body construction." really means a Glock-style of magazine construction. This is not how the majority of metal magazines are made. Your interpretation of a particular construction method makes a large portion of guns on the MA Gun Roster illegal due to a different(see the second bullet point) way of magazine construction.

"in my mind" is a very faulty assumption.

• Since the law does not clearly define the term "readily modifiable", it can be interpreted to any extreme. Case in point: ATF's new rule interprets existing law to mean that 80% of AR lowers are firearms because they are "easily machinable" into a fully functional receiver. Companies are challenging the rule in court because they interpret the law differently.
• Let's assume "Readily convertible" means that no additional parts are needed to extend the mag(ex. Glock mag extensions). Well, during the 2020 shortages, when regular capacity magazines were scarce, some dude with a VERY southern/redneck accent posted a youtube video of how one can take a limited 10rd Beretta/CZ/SIG-looking metal magazine, and drill out the two limiter dimples with a cordless drill, and turning a gimp mag into a standard one.
• Your statement, "The limited capacity mags I use typically have permanent rails inside that are part of the mag body construction." really means a Glock-style of magazine construction. This is not how the majority of metal magazines are made. Your interpretation of a particular construction method makes a large portion of guns on the MA Gun Roster illegal due to a different(see the second bullet point) way of magazine construction.

At no point did I say the majority of metal magazines were made that way. I actually followed it up pointing out it was Glock. So why you harping on the minutiae over points I never made?

 

[Marty McFly]

Breaking it is, effectively, manufacturing a new component.

What if you accidentally lost that component

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

At no point did I say the majority of metal magazines were made that way. I actually followed it up pointing out it was Glock. So why you harping on the minutiae over points I never made?

I don't think I have explained my point clearly. Let me try again:
The law is very ambiguous, allowing for any level of interpretation. Even gimped 10th Glock mags can be "readily modified" to accept more ammo. Metal magazines that work by limiting how low a follower can descend can also be modified. Here's the train of logic:
"Vast majority of gimped 10th magazines can be modified to accept more"; therefore...
"Vast majority of non-grandfathered magazines are therefore illegal under MA AWB."; therefore...
"Any pistol that cannot use pre-ban magazines is impossible to use without breaking the law"; also...
"Any FFL, like Cabelas, that sells new magazines, even the gimped 10rd, are breaking MA AWB law".

Yes, I am aware of this absurdity, but it follows the letter of the law. If the law is this absurd, does it still make everyone and every business a felon?