Lee Loadmaster 9MM Luger - Taper function on seating die?

[ToddMcF2002]

Hi trying to understand why Lee didn't include a taper crimp die (Carbide Factory Crimp Die 9MM Luger 90860) as part of my new press. Is there a taper function in the included seating die for the bullet? Or should I be trying to source the separate die? New to reloading...

 

[pastera]

The seating die also taper crimps
This works okay for jacketed bullets but it it still better to seat and crimp in two steps.

The FCD should never be necessary if you are properly loading - they are for covering up shortcuts.

 

[ToddMcF2002]

OK so its an insurance die really. Interesting. I have a Lyman cartridge gauge it should tell me if I need this die I suppose

 

[pastera]

OK so its an insurance die really. Interesting. I have a Lyman cartridge gauge it should tell me if I need this die I suppose

If the round fails to pass a gage check figure out why and skip the FCD.
If you are loading cast bullets, the rounds will very likely not pass a gauge but will still chamber In YOUR barrel. Running a cast bullet through a FCD is a good way of screwing it up

 

[ToddMcF2002]

The lead that I have is Bullet Man cast bullets - lead Polymer coated 125g .356. What will the FCD do to that? thanks.

 

[mac1911]

OK so its an insurance die really. Interesting. I have a Lyman cartridge gauge it should tell me if I need this die I suppose

Use the chamber of your pistol, if loading bulk for several pistols use the tightest chambered one.

Watch the seating/crimp dies directions.

 

[ToddMcF2002]

I do plan to practice with the dies etc. I did manage to find a FCD so I bought it. Here are the bullets I've got at the moment. Any thoughts?

 

[DW357]

I highly recommend getting a separate crimp die so you can seat a crimp in separate stations. More consistent.
I used a Lee FCD for years and then switched to a regular Lee taper crimp die.
Send me $20 and I’ll ship you the Lee FCD - if interested.

EDIT: you posted before me lol. Glad you could get one.

 

[mac1911]

The lead that I have is Bullet Man cast bullets - lead Polymer coated 125g .356. What will the FCD do to that? thanks.

The lee FCD taper crimp can "undersize" your bullet. Dependent on dia of bullet and thickness of brass.
I think its more so the lack of proper adjustment.

 

[greencobra]

using a fcd with limited experience reloading may not be a good thing. i'm of the opinion it's best to use the taper crimp function in the seating die for a while, learn how to crimp and understand why you do it.

 

[ToddMcF2002]

using a fcd with limited experience reloading may not be a good thing. i'm of the opinion it's best to use the taper crimp function in the seating die for a while, learn how to crimp and understand why you do it.

I get that totally agree. I plan to seat spent casings etc. and get everything dialed in. I have plenty of bullets. Plenty of casings. No so much primers and powder. If I have to I'll buy the wrong powder just to dial in that too and just discard the results.

 

[bottle-cap]

I’ve seen those bullets at Outback In Plympton. Can’t find who or where they come from other than USA. Keep us posted on how they work. I’m curious.

 

[mac1911]

I get that totally agree. I plan to seat spent casings etc. and get everything dialed in. I have plenty of bullets. Plenty of casings. No so much primers and powder. If I have to I'll buy the wrong powder just to dial in that too and just discard the results.

Do Not introduce the wrong powder

if your taper FCD carbide ring is sizing your bullet/brass due to over sized bullets and brass thickness variation its not going help anything.
Going on memory the base of the case is .39xx” and the tapper is .38xx” ?
Also I see alot of over belling of the case which has some problems in itself.

The directions for setting up the dies can sometimes be a bit .....unclear.
IIRC lee directions for the taper FCD have you use a completed round? What if your loading something thats not available to you already completed?

 

[ToddMcF2002]

I’ve seen those bullets at Outback In Plympton. Can’t find who or where they come from other than USA. Keep us posted on how they work. I’m curious.

They are nowhere online. They look like quality though. Of course I have zero experience so I'm just looking at their appearance.

 

[mac1911]

They are nowhere online. They look like quality though. Of course I have zero experience so I'm just looking at their appearance.

I think they are made locally , not even sure if they are still up and running. I feel like that inventory neen there a long time

 

[ToddMcF2002]

I have 500 Berry's copper plated bullets in the mail to test with. I'll try both of these and see how it goes. But really want bullets that play nice with both the 9MM cartridge gauge and taper die. I believe these Berry bullets are the way to go for that.

 

[mac1911]

I have 500 Berry's copper plated bullets in the mail to test with. I'll try both of these and see how it goes. But really want bullets that play nice with both the 9MM cartridge gauge and taper die. I believe these Berry bullets are the way to go for that.

I personally have never had a problem with seating crimp dies . I load some fat cast in my 9mm , 45acp
If it runs in my SW PC 1911 it will run in all my 1911s
9mm I was loading for a SW 59-2 that ate everything also. I only have the walther P38 now and that gets a steady diet of NATO clone ammo

 

[jpm]

I have 500 Berry's copper plated bullets in the mail to test with. I'll try both of these and see how it goes. But really want bullets that play nice with both the 9MM cartridge gauge and taper die. I believe these Berry bullets are the way to go for that.

I use Berry's 124gr in my Lee loadmaster for 9mm and I use the FCD in the last station to crimp. Never any problems, they all chamber in multiple guns and its a nice accurate load (5.0 of CFE Pistol as I recall)

 

[TrashcanDan]

F.C.D's are known to resize/ undersize lead down to jacketed diameter or less.
Make sure you measure it often.

I'm not saying don't use it, just be a little more diligent with it

 

[greencobra]

I have 500 Berry's copper plated bullets in the mail to test with. I'll try both of these and see how it goes. But really want bullets that play nice with both the 9MM cartridge gauge and taper die. I believe these Berry bullets are the way to go for that.

remember...go easy with the crimp on those berry's, you don't want to cut into the copper plating.
I use berry plated bullets in 45acp with much success.

 

[milktree]

I highly recommend getting a separate crimp die so you can seat a crimp in separate stations. More consistent.
I used a Lee FCD for years and then switched to a regular Lee taper crimp die.

Why'd you switch? Does the Lee FCD have some shortcomings you don't like?

 

[mac1911]

Remember lee has 3 different "factory crimp dies"
Collet, taper and roll crimp
Then they offer them in carbide for that case sizing step. I dont know if they still offer the non carbide option?
Know what you have and why you use it.

 

[DW357]

Why'd you switch? Does the Lee FCD have some shortcomings you don't like?

I didn’t like the thought of ramming loaded rounds through the ‘sizing’ ring on the FCD especially with coated bullets. Though I can’t say I saw much of a change in accuracy. Then again I’m not a bullseye shooter just USPSA/IDPA

 

[mac1911]

I didn’t like the thought of ramming loaded rounds through the ‘sizing’ ring on the FCD especially with coated bullets. Though I can’t say I saw much of a change in accuracy. Then again I’m not a bullseye shooter just USPSA/IDPA

From my own thoughts , you should not see a change in accuracy unless your running a oversized bullet and the brass wall is thick
Basically tour bullet size and case wall thickness is larger than the carbide sizer and the carbide swages the case/bullet instead of the case base.
You get a little case spring back but the bullet does not. Ending up with a loose crimp.
I have come to like the lee seat/crimp die for pistols. I dont have any problems.
Im loading single stage and Lee Pro1000

now the hornady roll crimp on the rifle dies are very very touchy to case length and I collapsed enough shoulders I stopped using it and bought the lee collet dies

 

[meh]

I can definitely see getting a separate crimp die for use in a progressive press, a second seating die of one prefers that to the FCD. FWIW, in 9mm I've only ever loaded jacketed and plated and only on a single-stage. I have my 9mm seating die set up to taper crimp a little but only err on the side of not enough. When it's not enough, I run the batch through the Lee FCD. I don't think I've ever felt the sizing ring on the Lee FCD make contact with the case with 9mm loads. In 45 ACP, I believe it only contacts the flare, if that, as it goes in before it's crimped. Maybe this is only because I'm not loading cast bullets. Anyway, I couldn't say this for revolver calibers. With revolver calibers the Lee FCD (roll crimp) sizing ring often contacts the case. It seems to depend mostly on the brass make. With Federal it's a rarity that it makes contact. With GFL it's every round.

 

[mac1911]

I can definitely see getting a separate crimp die for use in a progressive press, a second seating die of one prefers that to the FCD. FWIW, in 9mm I've only ever loaded jacketed and plated and only on a single-stage. I have my 9mm seating die set up to taper crimp a little but only err on the side of not enough. When it's not enough, I run the batch through the Lee FCD. I don't think I've ever felt the sizing ring on the Lee FCD make contact with the case with 9mm loads. In 45 ACP, I believe it only contacts the flare, if that, as it goes in before it's crimped. Maybe this is only because I'm not loading cast bullets. Anyway, I couldn't say this for revolver calibers. With revolver calibers the Lee FCD (roll crimp) sizing ring often contacts the case. It seems to depend mostly on the brass make. With Federal it's a rarity that it makes contact. With GFL it's every round.

you need to go with what works for you.
Pro 1000 does not have room for a 5th die.

 

[Rugerfan]

I have used the Lee FCD for all of the handgun calibers I load for range ammo including 9mm. I started that way on a Lee turret press, and continue on the Dillon 550 . There has never been a problem chambering anything in any of my guns, nor has there been any accuracy issues with the rounds.

Having said that, I am careful to set all of the dies to do the minimum amount of expansion/size/crimp as possible. The FCD only makes contact with a few rounds every 100 or so. I load plated, FMJ, polymer coated and lead projectiles.

If I am loading for accuracy, then sorting cases and all of the usual processes are used to ensure more consistency. Handgun rounds are way less fussy about the fine details. Rifle rounds are fussy.

This has been my experience over the past 10+ years. YMMV

 

[walter62]

Lee makes 3 and 4 die sets. In the 3 set, the seater is also crimping. W/ the 4 set, you get the FCD.

When I started, I got the 3 set but then got the 'vanilla' (non-FCD) crimper (< $15 as I recall). And yea,
you do not want to overcrimp the Berry's. Use as very little crimp (when you pull the bullet, you should
barely see (and not feel) the crimp line. Get a kinetic bullet puller if you don't have one. A flared 9mm case
should measure about .380-.390 at the mouth (dont overflare)

 

[Smoothride]

The Lee FCD is the cat's ass. Anybody saying that if you need it, you are doing something wrong is BS. Every manufacturer, especially 9mm, make brass with different thicknesses. How does each manufacturer get their ammo to plunk test a SAAMI gauge? Something similar to a FCD. So if you take range brass, 9mm, different manufacturers, and resize and reload, if it doesn't plunk, it needs to be shrunk...hence the FCD. I invite anybody to take factory ammo apart and measure the projectile. Not going to be what you expect. The outside of the case has been pressed to fit a SAAMI spec. Stop this old wives tale. That being said, I use the Lee seater to seat and remove the flare and do final crimp and resize with the FCD.