Lee carbide dies for .38/.357

milktree

milktree

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I've reached the point where I'm tired of adjusting my .38/.357 dies when I switch between the two, so I want a second set of dies so I can keep them both set up all the time.

I have Dillon dies, and they work as well as I could ask. But Dillon has a 6 month backorder on .38/.357 carbide die sets.

Lee makes a four die carbide set. Will I be disappointed with them having used Dillon stuff?

And... the kit comes with a "factory crimp die", which I understand is not ideal for non jacketed bullets; I should be using a taper crimp for them. Is that accurate? (I guess I could use the taper crimp on the lead, and factory crimp on the .357 mag jacketed bullets...)

Any other die sets I should be considering?
 
I just make everything as 357 and change the powder/load to make
mousefart 38'ish. No second dies, toolhead etc etc

I have the Lee 4 die set. No issues at all.

I'm pretty sure I purchased the 3 set and Lee makes a *collet* crimper
for 357 (due to how it's made, it can't do 38)
 
Last edited:
milktree said:
I've reached the point where I'm tired of adjusting my .38/.357 dies when I switch between the two, so I want a second set of dies so I can keep them both set up all the time.

I have Dillon dies, and they work as well as I could ask. But Dillon has a 6 month backorder on .38/.357 carbide die sets.

Lee makes a four die carbide set. Will I be disappointed with them having used Dillon stuff?

And... the kit comes with a "factory crimp die", which I understand is not ideal for non jacketed bullets; I should be using a taper crimp for them. Is that accurate? (I guess I could use the taper crimp on the lead, and factory crimp on the .357 mag jacketed bullets...)

Any other die sets I should be considering?
Click to expand...
If you’re running them in a Dillon I suggest grabbing whatever is available but adding in a second crimp die so you can seat and crimp separately.
You want a roll crimp die. I think Lee sells them separately. Forget the FCD.

Or get a machined spacer for the die set and a set of locking rings.

When you want to swap to 357 just unscrew your dies from the tool head. Drop in the machined spacer and screw the dies back in. Done.
 
walter62 said:
I just make everything as 357 and change the powder/load to make
mousefart 38'ish. No second dies, toolhead etc etc
Click to expand...

That doesn't really solve my problem.

1) .357 cases won't fit in a .38 spl. revolver
2) .357 cases are just a bit longer, so I can't fit 10+1 into my lever gun. The extra round actually matters shooting bowling pins.

walter62 said:
I have the Lee 4 die set. No issues at all.
Click to expand...
Good to know.

walter62 said:
I'm pretty sure I purchased the 3 set and Lee makes a *collet* crimper
for 357 (due to how it's made, it can't do 38)
Click to expand...

Can you expand on this? Does the collet crimper (is this the FCD?) not have sufficient vertical adjustment?
 
I use a lot of Lee dies in several calibers. No complaints

38spl/357mag are roll crimp cartridges not taper crimp. They headspace from the rim, not the case mouth.

Taper crimps are for 9mm, 45acp, .380 and other similar tapered cartridges.

I've been loading with Lee dies for a long time and they perform just fine.
 
38ExtraSpecial said:
If you’re running them in a Dillon I suggest grabbing whatever is available but adding in a second crimp die so you can seat and crimp separately.
You want a roll crimp die. I think Lee sells them separately. Forget the FCD.
Click to expand...

Because it's fundamentally flawed, or because I'm using plated/coated bullets? Is the FCD no good for jacketed bullets?



38ExtraSpecial said:
Or get a machined spacer for the die set and a set of locking rings.

When you want to swap to 357 just unscrew your dies from the tool head. Drop in the machined spacer and screw the dies back in. Done.
Click to expand...

I'm not really comfortable with that solution. The lock rings don't lock to the die, they work like a lock nut with the tool head.

Plus, I might want to adjust crimp tension on the .357 but not on the .38, or bullet seat differences, etc.
 
Uzi2 said:
I use a lot of Lee dies in several calibers. No complaints
Click to expand...
Good, thanks.


Uzi2 said:
38spl/357mag are roll crimp cartridges not taper crimp. They headspace from the rim, not the case mouth.

Taper crimps are for 9mm, 45acp, .380 and other similar tapered cartridges.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that cartridges that headspace on the mouth *MUST* use a taper crimp, but ones that headspace on the rim don't care if it's a taper or roll crimp. Is that incorrect?

Given that lots of bullets don't have a canelure, is a roll crimp a problem with plated or coated bullets? I don't want to cut through it.
 
First, Lee has EXTREMELY braindead product naming. They have 3-4 different
crimpers, all named Factory Crimp Die that use different crimping techniques.
So be aware.

Mostly, the FCD's have a carbide ring at the bottom to help make sure the round
will plunk. The collet type FCD doesn't have a carbide ring but a sized internal spring
steel collet that squeezes down when the die meets the shellplate. So, they are not
interchangeable between 38 and 357 (and Lee only makes the collet one for high-energy rounds
like 357, 44 etc. The collets dont require a cannelure.

Download the Lee catalog and find the page that describes crimpers.

Sounds like you need to take the 'buy dies & toolhead' route for this and dedicate
to the caliber

EDIT: the normal Dillon lockrings can't lock to the die but many companies make
lockrings w/ a screw that does lock down to the die.
 
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milktree said:
Because it's fundamentally flawed, or because I'm using plated/coated bullets? Is the FCD no good for jacketed bullets?





I'm not really comfortable with that solution. The lock rings don't lock to the die, they work like a lock nut with the tool head.

Plus, I might want to adjust crimp tension on the .357 but not on the .38, or bullet seat differences, etc.
Click to expand...
The normal FCD has a carbide sizer to resize the case while it crimps it. That will squish down soft lead bullets and make them undersized. In turn you get leading and tumbling

The collet crimp die only crimps at the case mouth for a deep precise crimp.

Many companies make lock rings that actually lock. They use a machine screw to tighten the split locking collar or just a set screw to keep the collar from moving. You can even drill and tap your own to get the same result. I suggest dropping a #8 shot into the hole before you tighten down the set screw style rings so you don’t bugger the threads. They don’t move once tightened
 
milktree said:
Good, thanks.




My understanding is that cartridges that headspace on the mouth *MUST* use a taper crimp, but ones that headspace on the rim don't care if it's a taper or roll crimp. Is that incorrect?

Given that lots of bullets don't have a canelure, is a roll crimp a problem with plated or coated bullets? I don't want to cut through it.
Click to expand...
That is incorrect.

A cartridge that headspaces on the rim ie: 38spl/.357mag/44spl/44mag should be roll crimped. Look at any factory loaded cartridge in those calibers and they are all roll crimped and have a cannelure.

Cartridges that headspace on the case mouth, ie: ,380 auto, .9mm, .45acp, should be taper crimped and the bullets used in those calibers do not have a cannelure. They rely on case tension.
 
walter62 said:
Honestly, I never noticed the 9mm FCD squishing lead but next
time I setup for 9mm lead, I'll check. Mostly I use RMR or AR
FMJs currently but have 3500 of lead waiting for something
Click to expand...
A taper factory crimp die WILL squish down a lead bullet or plated bullet if the bullet is not within proper diameter specs.

Driving the lead bullets at too high a velocity is what creates a leading problem as the bullet is skimming over the lands of the barrel too fast and shaving off the lead into the barrel grooves.
 
walter62 said:
well, my target FPS is < 900 (147gn) so I doubt it's much of a problem
but we'll see. Never had issue before when loading lead (coated)
Click to expand...
Look at the load data for any cartridge, the data/velocity spec for lead bullets vs jacketed is always lower.

You can't push a lead bullet at jacketed bullet velocities, the lead bullet strips off in the bore and leaves deposits in the grooves.
 
Uzi2 said:
That is incorrect.

A cartridge that headspaces on the rim ie: 38spl/.357mag/44spl/44mag should be roll crimped. Look at any factory loaded cartridge in those calibers and they are all roll crimped and have a cannelure.
Click to expand...

Right. But I'm not making factory loaded cartridges. I'm making cartridges using un-cannelured polymer coated lead bullets. Surely you believe that there are .357/.358" diameter projectiles designed for .38 special that don't have a cannelure, right?

e.g.: 125 Gr Round Nose – The Blue Bullets

And my point was that if you use a taper crimp on a smooth sided bullet in a rimmed cartridge, it'll work just fine, because the crimp doesn't matter at all for headspacing.
 
milktree said:
Right. But I'm not making factory loaded cartridges. I'm making cartridges using un-cannelured polymer coated lead bullets. Surely you believe that there are .357/.358" diameter projectiles designed for .38 special that don't have a cannelure, right?

e.g.: 125 Gr Round Nose – The Blue Bullets

And my point was that if you use a taper crimp on a smooth sided bullet in a rimmed cartridge, it'll work just fine, because the crimp doesn't matter at all for headspacing.
Click to expand...
Ok, the issue of headspace is true, but the roll crimp on a cannelure bullet is to prevent possible "set back" due to recoil and to provide consistent pressure values.

I think that striving for "factory spec" ammo is a worthwhile endeavor. The factory has already put in the research in load development.....why try to counter it?
 
milktree said:
I've reached the point where I'm tired of adjusting my .38/.357 dies when I switch between the two, so I want a second set of dies so I can keep them both set up all the time.

I have Dillon dies, and they work as well as I could ask. But Dillon has a 6 month backorder on .38/.357 carbide die sets.

Lee makes a four die carbide set. Will I be disappointed with them having used Dillon stuff?

And... the kit comes with a "factory crimp die", which I understand is not ideal for non jacketed bullets; I should be using a taper crimp for them. Is that accurate? (I guess I could use the taper crimp on the lead, and factory crimp on the .357 mag jacketed bullets...)

Any other die sets I should be considering?
Click to expand...

Once upon a time
Many many moons ago...............

This guy in the vid made toolheads just for this. And .44.
No need for changing or adjusting dies, just slide the spacer in on the top or bottom depending on what your loading.

May still make em.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8RV9PSuKTI

Dillon XL-650 Quick Switch Kit – Magnum/Special – Ultimate Reloader

ultimatereloader.com ultimatereloader.com
 
milktree said:
Good, thanks.




My understanding is that cartridges that headspace on the mouth *MUST* use a taper crimp, but ones that headspace on the rim don't care if it's a taper or roll crimp. Is that incorrect?

Given that lots of bullets don't have a canelure, is a roll crimp a problem with plated or coated bullets? I don't want to cut through it.
Click to expand...
For me I taper crimp jacketed bullets with a cannelure. For cast with a groove I roll crimp.

When I load any plated bullets I don't really crimp at all I just remove the flare. If you do any real crimp on plated it will cut into the plating.

That's how I do things. Others have different opinions.

As far as lee brand dies I only use them and have zero complaints.
 
milktree said:
Because it's fundamentally flawed, or because I'm using plated/coated bullets? Is the FCD no good for jacketed bullets?





I'm not really comfortable with that solution. The lock rings don't lock to the die, they work like a lock nut with the tool head.

Plus, I might want to adjust crimp tension on the .357 but not on the .38, or bullet seat differences, etc.
Click to expand...
Tou can get split lock rings for dies
 
milktree said:
I've reached the point where I'm tired of adjusting my .38/.357 dies when I switch between the two, so I want a second set of dies so I can keep them both set up all the time.

I have Dillon dies, and they work as well as I could ask. But Dillon has a 6 month backorder on .38/.357 carbide die sets.

Lee makes a four die carbide set. Will I be disappointed with them having used Dillon stuff?

And... the kit comes with a "factory crimp die", which I understand is not ideal for non jacketed bullets; I should be using a taper crimp for them. Is that accurate? (I guess I could use the taper crimp on the lead, and factory crimp on the .357 mag jacketed bullets...)

Any other die sets I should be considering?
Click to expand...
I might have a set of dillon 38/357 unsure if-they are Carbide or even any good. I already had my lee pro 1000s set up for each . I dont even load a lot of each and swaping out spaces and such wore on me quickly. Just change tool heads.
 
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