Lead levels

richc

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Last week I spent a lovely day at the hospital getting a bunch of tests. I woke up feeling wonky. FYI my doc is also a friend who has been shooting with me. He knows of my hobby and ran a lead test. He also ran carbon monoxide, as I spend some time in the basement reloading. And he ran a lyme disease test because he is seeing so much of it these days.

Well the lead test came at the high end of normal.

"Lyme and carbon monoxide tests were negative. The lead level was at the upper limits of normal at 4.9 ( normal is 0 - 4.9). The average level for adults is 3. Increased levels can cause lots of different symptoms. I'm not sure whether lead played a role in your symptoms, but it might be a consideration to cut down your exposure to lead a bit. Here's a link with some info:

http://www.health.state.ny.us/publications/2584/"

So I am curious... anyone else have their lead levels checked? How do I compare?

I'll speak to the doc soon, but I'm wondering if this is from recent exposure to lead, or could it be from some time in the past? Do our lead levels decrease when exposure is stopped, or do our bodies keep it around?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rich
 
I shoot indoors a lot and have spent some time looking into the lead contamination issue. I also have a few decades of environmental consulting experience, much of which has involved human health risk assessment and toxicology, so I can negotiate the technical literature. I decided to have my serum lead tested when one of the guys I shoot with had a test come back at 62 ug/dl (micrograms per deciliter, which I assume are the units yours was reported in as well). Mine was up to 30.8 ug/dl, which was high enough so that it was required to be reported to the state, who sent me a nice letter about occupational exposure and my worker's rights (nice gesture, I guess, but not really applicable). I've posted before on how we were both able to bring our lead levels back to the near-normal range by wearing respirators, so I won't get into that again.

Based on everything I've read, 4.9 ug/dl is not at the high end of the "normal" range, which is generally considered to be up to 10 ug/dl for adults in the US (the number for children would be lower). I put "normal" in quotes because it's a bit difficult to determine what truly normal pre-industrial levels might have been, but I think there is some consensus that below 10 ug/dl is the modern normal. I know I'd be very happy to get mine down as low as 4.9 ug/dl - my last test came back at just above 10 ug/dl - and if I were you I wouldn't change what I was doing or worry about it further.

Lead enters the body primarily via inhalation and ingestion. Those of us who shoot indoors are getting a lot of air exposure due to finely divided lead from bullets and, as the major route according to some, volatilized lead and lead compounds from the lead styphnate primer used in modern ammunition. Shooting outdoors reduces the exposure, as does wearing a respirator, which I always do when shooting indoors now. Depending on which research you believe, something up to 90% of the lead we inhale actually enters the body.

Ingestion usually results from lead on the hands being transferred to food, so it's more of an issue for reloaders working with lead bullets, but handling loaded cartridges with exposed lead can also contaminate the hands. Simply washing your hands well after reloading or shooting takes care of that problem. Again, depending on which studies you believe, about 40% of lead that's ingested enters your body. Only minimal amounts of elemental lead pass through the skin, so that's not of concern, although there is some anecdotal evidence that lead dissolved in gun cleaning solvents can enter the body. I've started wearing disposable nitrile gloves when cleaning guns, which has the added advantage of keeping the solvents themselves off the skin.

Lead does tend to remain in the body for extended periods, but is eventually eliminated, so limiting exposure will eventually reduce elevated serum lead.
 
Thx for that explanation...I prefer to shoot outdoors when ever possible for the reasons you stated. I will now use protective gloves when cleaning my firearms...thx again for sharing your experience.
 
I've been shooting, reloading, and casting for decades. All of my shooting has been outdoors. The reloading and casting have all been done indoors. I've been fortunate in that my lead levels have never been elevated. I have started using the disposable gloves when cleaning the guns, but mostly to keep the chemicals off my hands.

There have been some excellent threads on NES about minimizing your exposure to lead. It seems that the biggest factor for adults, from what I have read, is indoor shooting. If I were to start using an indoor range I would use a respirator.

Good that you caught the problem early. Take some precautions and you should be fine.
 
Rich,

I've been there and done that. Your level is elevated but not bad (especially for your age). Have your family members checked to make sure it's not a plumbing or internal environmental thing. Fin Fur and Feather just redid their indoor pistol range and have the best ventilation in the area.
 
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Last week I spent a lovely day at the hospital getting a bunch of tests. I woke up feeling wonky. FYI my doc is also a friend who has been shooting with me. He knows of my hobby and ran a lead test. He also ran carbon monoxide, as I spend some time in the basement reloading. And he ran a lyme disease test because he is seeing so much of it these days.

Well the lead test came at the high end of normal.

"Lyme and carbon monoxide tests were negative. The lead level was at the upper limits of normal at 4.9 ( normal is 0 - 4.9). The average level for adults is 3. Increased levels can cause lots of different symptoms. I'm not sure whether lead played a role in your symptoms, but it might be a consideration to cut down your exposure to lead a bit. Here's a link with some info:

http://www.health.state.ny.us/publications/2584/"

So I am curious... anyone else have their lead levels checked? How do I compare?

I'll speak to the doc soon, but I'm wondering if this is from recent exposure to lead, or could it be from some time in the past? Do our lead levels decrease when exposure is stopped, or do our bodies keep it around?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rich

Because of high levels I am tested every 6 months. I range from 10 in the fall to 20 during indoor shooting season. This winter indoors, I will be wearing a respirator.
 
Another word of advice

If you live in an older community in an old home that has city water, have your water tested. Many old homes have the city connection to the main in Lead Pipe that will cause higher than normal levels of lead into the water. No, the city will not replace it at their cost.
 
I'm reviving this very old thread to report on my latest blood lead levels, and to recap how I got where I am, hoping that it may be of some value to others. To recap:

In 2008, after one of the guys on my pistol team was tested for lead and the results came back screaming high at >60 mcg/dL, I decided to add lead to the blood work at my regular physical. Mine was also elevated, at a bit over 30 mcg/dL. It seemed fairly apparent to me that the cause had to be inhalation during indoor range sessions, so I started wearing a half-face respirator with P100 filters, the standard set-up for moderate lead exposure. I made no other significant changes to my shooting-related behavior, and didn't wear the respirator when shooting outdoors.

After one year with the respirator, at my next physical my serum lead concentration was down to 11.8 mcg/dL, almost normal (less than 10 mcg/dL for adults). As another data point, the guy who was over 60 mcg/dL had managed to get down into the low to mid 20s.

Well, I didn't get around to having a physical last year, but just got my blood numbers back from a recent physical this year, and (TA DA!) my lead is down to 7.9 mcg/dL. At the same time, the elevated blood pressure that I had a few years ago (a known effect of lead poisoning) continues to drop and is back to just about normal levels. For those of us who shoot a lot in indoor ranges with crappy ventilation (which is just about all of them), respirators are just about as important as glasses and muffs - and once you get used to wearing one, and learn to disregard all the "Darth Vader" jokes, you'll feel nekkid without it.
 
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Thanks for reviving this thread, because I never saw the original discussion. Excellent info in here because I always shoot indoors during the winter, or on rainy days, as we have a very nice indoor range. This time of year I prefer to be outside anyway because the lighting is obviously better, and the noise levels are decreased. I never gave much thought to the issue of inhaling lead, though. I will add some respirators to my range bag for when I do use the indoor facility. It seems to have a very good ventilation system, along with a waterfall snail trap, but I'm sure a certain amount of exposure just from the firing alone occurs.
 
Last week I spent a lovely day at the hospital getting a bunch of tests. I woke up feeling wonky. FYI my doc is also a friend who has been shooting with me. He knows of my hobby and ran a lead test. He also ran carbon monoxide, as I spend some time in the basement reloading. And he ran a lyme disease test because he is seeing so much of it these days.

Well the lead test came at the high end of normal.

"Lyme and carbon monoxide tests were negative. The lead level was at the upper limits of normal at 4.9 ( normal is 0 - 4.9). The average level for adults is 3. Increased levels can cause lots of different symptoms. I'm not sure whether lead played a role in your symptoms, but it might be a consideration to cut down your exposure to lead a bit. Here's a link with some info:

http://www.health.state.ny.us/publications/2584/"

So I am curious... anyone else have their lead levels checked? How do I compare?

I'll speak to the doc soon, but I'm wondering if this is from recent exposure to lead, or could it be from some time in the past? Do our lead levels decrease when exposure is stopped, or do our bodies keep it around?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rich

everyone i know that shoots indoors is on the same boat when it comes to lead. Pembroke was having some problems with it, poor ventilation, so they replaced or improved the entire ventilation system.
 
I shoot at a pretty new, modern range that I assume has pretty good ventilation. Does good ventilation significantly reduce the risk of exposure? Obviously I'm concerned for myself, but I'm even more concerned for the RSOs who work there and spend quite a lot of time on the range.
 
My first club only allowed lead indoors and had a virtually non-existent ventilation system. Between reloading and shooting there weekly, I knew that I was getting a bad dose of lead. Eventually I quit shooting indoors there and since after 24 years of being a member all they did was "talk" about the issue, but never improved the ventilation, it was one of the reasons I resigned from that club and never looked back. I've heard rumors that they did make some positive changes in the past few years, after one of their prominent pistol team shooters made a lot of noise after having tested very high lead levels. But to do it right would take a lot more money than that club will ever have.

This was one of the reasons I fell in love with Braintree R&P. The HEPA system in the new range is one of the best in the state (S&W is equal or perhaps a shade better) and makes indoor shooting a pleasure, when outdoors isn't practical/possible. BR&P also has an older indoor range with not-so-great ventilation, so I will only use that one as a "last resort". The club wants us to use it for training instead of the new range, but the ventilation system is the reason why I do use the new range for training (only one student at a time) instead. The older range is on the bucket list for R&R of the ventilation system, but other issues have kept pushing this project back year after year.

I've taken to wearing nitrile gloves when gun cleaning or reloading and won't be a member anywhere that requires lead only shooting. I was tested a few years ago and was low normal lead level and want to keep it that way.
 
I shoot at a pretty new, modern range that I assume has pretty good ventilation. Does good ventilation significantly reduce the risk of exposure? Obviously I'm concerned for myself, but I'm even more concerned for the RSOs who work there and spend quite a lot of time on the range.

Sure, good ventilation will reduce exposure, but really good ventilation is very expensive. As a practical test, look at where the smoke goes when you've got a lot of the guys on the line shooting. Does it move downrange quickly (as I recall the recommendation is 1 ft per second) and not swirl back toward the line, i.e. is the flow reasonably laminar? Can you smell any combustion products when there are a lot of people shooting? Do you get that funny metallic taste in the back of your throat after shooting or do have black mucus in your nose? If the answers are yes, no, and no, respectively, then I'd say the ventilation is pretty good.
 
Sure, good ventilation will reduce exposure, but really good ventilation is very expensive. As a practical test, look at where the smoke goes when you've got a lot of the guys on the line shooting. Does it move downrange quickly (as I recall the recommendation is 1 ft per second) and not swirl back toward the line, i.e. is the flow reasonably laminar? Can you smell any combustion products when there are a lot of people shooting? Do you get that funny metallic taste in the back of your throat after shooting or do have black mucus in your nose? If the answers are yes, no, and no, respectively, then I'd say the ventilation is pretty good.


You should feel a slight breeze at the back of your neck. Newer ranges don't always do this unless properly engineered. I was a member of a club that spent more than $150,000 rehabbing their range. First bulls eye season I shot there my levels doubled. I am no longer a member there. They basically threw the money away by NOT having the air system properly engineered and installed.

The other products to have in your range bag is D LEAD wipes
 
Did any of you guys follow any sort of special regiment to drop your lead levels? I've heard that taking calcium supplements will help lower it. Any insight?
 
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Rich, how diligent are you about washing your hands after reloading, shooting ect?

As you've seen, I usually bring some type of wipes to the range or use a bottle of water at least to clean up after shooting. My reloading room is right across from the bathroom here so I wash immediately everytime I leave the reloading room, even if it just to go get components. I'm going to get my levels check at my next physical, hopefully they're not elevated.
 
Did any of you guys follow any sort of special regiment to drop your lead levels? I've heard that taking calcium supplements will help lower it. Any insight?

I used THIS very successfully. My first lead tests were above 35. I told my Doc I would take care of it myself. I used the Natural cleanse and in 6 months went from 36 to 12. Next time the levels went to 20 I did the cleanse again and was at 10 in 90 days.

My Family Doc felt this was a much safer way than prescription drugs after he read the ingredients and saw my results. It is a mixture of vitamins that cause you to expel the lead.

I have been playing the lead game for about 6 years now and just take the cleanse every 18 months for the benefits.

As a point of information, I now shoot lead bullets, I reload, and I control my levels myself. For reloading I have a hand creme designed for limiting lead exposure and when shooting indoors, I do not use lead.
 
I used to scrape lead paint for a living and my levels were usually high. First symptom was a short temper. We were always yelling at eachother and throwing stuff on the jobsite. Wash your hands frequently and keep em out of your mouth while reloading!
 
THREAD RESURRECTION!

After another thread that was nuked by the mods, I decided to go get a test done. It's amazing how many places just wont do one without a doctor's order and would ask me "why do you want a treat done?" ... "because I want to, is that OK that I want to make sure my lead levels are low?" ... I even told one person that I liked to sprinkle my food with lead dust. They didnt find that amusing.

Anyway... found a place.

They didnt give me an exact result, only:

"<5 ug/dL" ... so, I guess I am fine. I will get an appointment with a primary care doctor so I can get another test in 6 months or so.

I have been shooting my muskets a lot as well as the Sharps. That includes touching A LOT of lead bullets, primers next to my face and black powder everywhere (but BP doesnt matter). I always clean the barrel between shots, so I am also touching all the lead left behind. And like an idiot, I will touch my phone once in a while and answer call. But, I guess I am fine and can continue to shoot.

On the topic of cleaning casings ...

I will start reloading a lot of .38. Right now I only use an ultrasonic cleaner for the 45/70 and dont care if the casings are not shiny (they look like I collected them from a WWI trench, lol).

But I was thinking, do you think it will be a good idea to first use the ultrasonic cleaner and then use a tumbler? ... I figured the liquid will get most of the junk off which means the tumbler wont have that much lead and junk in the dust.

Thoughts?
 
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When I worked as an instructor at Smith&Wesson it was manatory that I had a blood test to screen for lead levels monthly . Only once duraring a three year period did I have a slightly elevated lead level. Durring that time I had to stay off the range for 30 days and be tested at the end of the 30 day my lead level was normal and I could go back on the range .
 
I get one with an annual physical and more frequently if needed if required by work. The hospital doesn't seem to mind. I work a lot in decrepit buildings, so sometimes it's a necessity due to the piles of lead paint flakes everywhere. Always used range wipes, gloves while cleaning, d-lead detergent for range clothes and a separate pair of range shoes.
 
When I was a battery tech, I was tested for lead levels every six months. Ingestion and inhalation are the two biggest factors.

Wear a respirator if you're shooting at a range with poor ventilation. If you're reloading or casting projectiles, keep your hands away from your mouth. Dont smoke, as you will injest that way too. And dont bite your nails even after washing your hands.
 
I will start reloading a lot of .38. Right now I only use an ultrasonic cleaner for the 45/70 and dont care if the casings are not shiny (they look like I collected them from a WWI trench, lol).

But I was thinking, do you think it will be a good idea to first use the ultrasonic cleaner and then use a tumbler? ... I figured the liquid will get most of the junk off which means the tumbler wont have that much lead and junk in the dust.

Thoughts?

To reduce the lead styphnate and elemental lead dust in the dry media? Sure. But ultrasonic + dry tumbling sounds like a lot of work to do what wet tumbling does quickly and relatively easily. The hassle with the wet tumbler is mainly to do with the pins. If you don't care about making the primer pockets and insides look new, just want the outside polished and clean, you can use a wet tumbler without any pins. With the pins, a rotary media separator helps a lot, as does a magnet.
 
A couple of posts mention nitrile gloves. My experience with these is they disintegrate in the presence of gun cleaners. Any thoughts on that?
 
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