LE shoots man in the back when cuffed and down

[Will Brink]

Later claimed he was reaching for his taser, but accidentally drew his gun instead.

I have no problem believing that. LEs don't draw weapons in front of a crowd of people and shoot someone in the back lying down. It's more likely a mistake then he made the decision on a whim to shoot the guy knowing it would cost him at the very least his job, or a life time in jail. A damn shame all around, but it's more likely some very bad decisions were made under stress vs intent there. Of course an investigation will need to be done, like is the taser right next to the gun on his belt? I couldn't see. The cop quit his job BTW.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmJukcFzEX4&feature=related

Various stories:

http://news.google.com/news?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS257&tab=in&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1286215714

 

[fbirdquik6]

Ya thats not good!

 

[doobie]

Accident or not, he should be tried at worse for accidental manslaughter. I don't know about you, but every taser I've seen um, well, strangely enough looks and feels quite different than a pistol.

 

[Martlet]

Pretty sad, really. Looks like incompetence, which makes it doubly sad.

What's almost as pathetic is the citizens then decide it's a great excuse to riot and vandalize private property.

 

[gene]

Maybe the tazer should be bright pink with and orange barrel so these things won;t happen in the futire.

 

[HKdrummer]

Later claimed he was reaching for his taser, but accidentally drew his gun instead.

I have no problem believing that. LEs don't draw weapons in front of a crowd of people and shoot someone in the back lying down. It's more likely a mistake then he made the decision on a whim to shoot the guy knowing it would cost him at the very least his job, or a life time in jail. A damn shame all around, but it's more likely some very bad decisions were made under stress vs intent there. Of course an investigation will need to be done, like is the taser right next to the gun on his belt? I couldn't see. The cop quit his job BTW.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmJukcFzEX4&feature=related

Various stories:

http://news.google.com/news?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS257&tab=in&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1286215714

Are you kidding me?? I really dont see how one could confuse the two. If the suspect was cuffed and on the ground face down what business did he even have tasering him?? Just another out of control LEO. Not an ounce of sympathy here hang the bastard.

 

[Will Brink]

Maybe the tazer should be bright pink with and orange barrel so these things won;t happen in the futire.

They are bright yellow are they not? You can see he does not look to see what he's grabbing, so no color changes would have prevented it. Stress, lack of training (perhaps) and only 2 years on the job (if gathered that right) and perhaps other factors (perhaps he was known to not be the brightest bulb on the PD, or what ever) and a 1 in a million accident occurs with an ugly outcome for all involved.

 

[Admin]

Mistaking a gun for a taser does happen. IMO this is from the lack of training with both. If you train with your pistol often enough, grabbing a taser will immediately set off a warning flag.

 

[KMM696]

Bright pink and orange isn't a bad idea! I'm not comfortable with Tasers having the same pistol grip/trigger/holster setup as the handgun that's also on the belt. Sure, it's plastic, looks different, etc. but under stress, is it different enough? It's easier to use the way it is, as it taps into existing pistol training, but I'm wondering if changing the grip and activation method, perhaps training to use the Taser with the off hand would make it less likely for mistakes to occur.

 

[Ricochet]

Why was a taser even needed? It looked like there were three cops there. I agree that more frequent training in restraining suspects as well as police restraint devices should be mandatory. It could help prevent accidents such as this.

 

[pbearperry]

I am starting to believe the cops inexperience was overcome by the pandemonium being caused by this fairly large group of inner city gang wannabees.Watching the tape shows just how ignorant some of these kids can be.It appears that none of the cops really knows anything about handling these kinds of disturbances.

 

[FalArAk]

BART cops are incompetent,at best.

I am starting to believe the cops inexperience was overcome by the pandemonium being caused by this fairly large group of inner city gang wannabees.Watching the tape shows just how ignorant some of these kids can be.It appears that none of the cops really knows anything about handling these kinds of disturbances.

Just an FYI,that is the Fruitvale station,and those gangbangers there(That area,not the video) are the real thing.Those kids there make the kids in Dorchester look like wannabes.If you ever heard of East Oakland,that is where they are at.I used to work in that area.

 

[dwarven1]

Of course, had this happened in Boston, the shooters would have been immediately arrested and charged with wiretapping violations.

I'm speaking of the people who video recorded the incident, of course.


As for tasers, perhaps they need to be a completely different form factor so that you can't confuse them with a handgun. Set them up like the Star Trek TOS phasers (Type 1, that is), perhaps - rectangular with a button on the top that you press instead of a pistol grip style.

 

[clinotus]

Why was a taser even needed? It looked like there were three cops there. I agree that more frequent training in restraining suspects as well as police restraint devices should be mandatory. It could help prevent accidents such as this.

Bingo.

 

[terraformer]

As for tasers, perhaps they need to be a completely different form factor so that you can't confuse them with a handgun. Set them up like the Star Trek TOS phasers (Type 1, that is), perhaps - rectangular with a button on the top that you press instead of a pistol grip style.

They already are. Although they do have a trigger/grip like feel, it is very obvious it is not a gun. This is a guy who either lost it and is lying or lost it in the panic sense and couldn't keep his shit together. Either way, he left the job and that was absolutely a required outcome in all of this. He should find a less stressful line of work.

 

[Will Brink]

Are you kidding me??

No I am not. He was resisting being handcuffed, and they did what they would normaly do: one cop puts his knee into his back to hold him there and the other draws his taser and fires. It was not a taser however, cop fu%$ed up big time, and that's the issue. He was cuffed after he was shot, which is SOP for any dept no matter the circumstances. I do not believe the cop had any intention of shooting him no.

The tasers were new to the dept (Dec), he was a 2 year cop, which is still rookie territory, and it's possible they had minimal training with it, and or, dealing with it on the belt, etc. Cop had had his first kid like 2 weeks before also, so his head was not where it needed to be which = ugly results.

The issue of whether cuffs, etc were all needed in the first place will have to be looked at in context to see if the entire event could have been avoided, but vids dont give context and we dont know what was said between the parties, etc.

 

[andrew.tt]

to follow up >>

yes this does happen --

One of the possible scenarios expressed by those who have observed the video of the New Year's Day shooting on Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) in Oakland, Ca. is that the officer intended to use his TASER and mistakenly grabbed his firearm. This is altogether possible, and we have written about similar tragedies in the past.

How this could happen is truly at the root of what we understand about human mistakes. For example, we have learned that the disruption of a motor program to a high level can cause us to make mistakes. James Reason in his book, Human Error, explains how this occurs and calls these errors "double-capture slips." In the BART video, we see the officer who is straddling the subject who is ultimately killed reach for his TASER, then drop his hand to the subject in what appears to be a controlling movement. So the officer appeared to initiate the motor program to draw the TASER and was then interrupted. He then rises and draws his firearm and moments later fires into the back of the struggling subject.

http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/1772254-BART-shooting-raises-issue-of-TASER-confusion/

 

[Raoul Duke]

[sad2].

 

[mark056]

Are you kidding me?? I really dont see how one could confuse the two. If the suspect was cuffed and on the ground face down what business did he even have tasering him?? Just another out of control LEO. Not an ounce of sympathy here hang the bastard.

Just like someone who is not a percussionist could confuse a seven stroke roll with a five stroke roll (I did on my percussion proficiency test in college...my B.M. in music education is my other "worthless" college degree). I was under stress, and frankly s**t happens when you are under stress.

What you see here in my opinion is a classic training shortfall. Eliminate from your thoughts that LEOs are necessarily into firearms or non-lethal weaponry. Many are trained to a minmum standard, but that does not mean that they are comfortable with either. Then there were the dynamics of the situation itself.

It's important to realize that we are gun guys and gals, but for many in law enforcement firearrms and other weaponry are merely tools like flashlights and pens.

Mark L.

 

[Big Duke Six]

A friend of mine is a LEO in Bridgeport, Ct...They have their service weapon on their strong side, and the taser on the opposite....
Don't know if that's standard practice or not....

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

Are you kidding me?? I really dont see how one could confuse the two. If the suspect was cuffed and on the ground face down what business did he even have tasering him?? Just another out of control LEO. Not an ounce of sympathy here hang the bastard.

Great comment. Im sure the cop wanted to ruin his life over some punk by intentionally shooting him while he was down and cuffed.

 

[GSG]

A friend of mine is a LEO in Bridgeport, Ct...They have their service weapon on their strong side, and the taser on the opposite....
Don't know if that's standard practice or not....

This is exactly what I was thinking. The most sensible Taser placement I've seen on a duty belt is what I bolded in your post. Taser in a drop holster on the strong side thigh could easily be confused, especially in a fluid situation like that one. It's a fuzzy video too, but with the cop kind of bent over like that it'd be even easier to mistake one for the other if they're both on the same side.

 

[Will Brink]

Great comment. Im sure the cop wanted to ruin his life over some punk by intentionally shooting him while he was down and cuffed.

Said punk did have a record. Have you ever notice when ever such a thing happens they had just recently "been getting their life together." I'm not saying people can't turn their life around, but it seems unlikely how many of them had just recently "gotten their life together" just before the 'evil' cop ended their life before they made good on the world. Question, you turned it around, you're a father now with a job etc (the general info given about this young man) which is all good. So what are you doing in a subway station drunk at 2am mouthing off to the Po Po and then resisting arrest? It sucks what happened, but said victim has to take at least some blame for the outcome here no?

 

[stinx]

To a person in a stress charged environment a plastic taser and Plastic Glock can feel remarablt similiar. This is not the first shooting of this type,there are now several similiar cases on record.

 

[clinotus]

Said punk did have a record. Have you ever notice when ever such a thing happens they had just recently "been getting their life together." I'm not saying people can't turn their life around, but it seems unlikely how many of them had just recently "gotten their life together" just before the 'evil' cop ended their life before they made good on the world. Question, you turned it around, you're a father now with a job etc (the general info given about this young man) which is all good. So what are you doing in a subway station drunk at 2am mouthing off to the Po Po and then resisting arrest? It sucks what happened, but said victim has to take at least some blame for the outcome here no?

Depends, people in the end are ultimately responsible for their actions, however someone drunk at a subway station at 2am on New Years is certainly something to account for, its not like it was a weeknight. Add to that that he may have had a few bad experiences with the police in the past...and you've got him mouthing off. These things dont excuse his behavior by any means, but they are certainly factors.

Either way, he didnt deserve what he got.

 

[LKB3rd]

I just heard he has resigned, and the department isn't pressing charges. Something along the lines of "He is no longer our employee, and therefore we will not take action." So I guess we could go commit murders now, since we aren't police officers either

 

[MagnumAl]

Another reason why tazers are stupid. Baton, spray, gun. Why add a fourth piece? I never heard any decent justification for that.

 

[stinx]

Tazers would be fine if they shaped them different then a handgun.

 

[Half Cocked]

Just another out of control LEO. Not an ounce of sympathy here hang the bastard.

Yeah...because all these out of control LEO's resign after an incident like this.

A tragic ACCIDENT! All the way around.

Poor training + Poor tactics + Stress + Crowd = Tragedy

 

[Half Cocked]

So I guess we could go commit murders now

Who committed murder?