Lawsuit against MA AWB

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The resident plaintiff gives them standing.
I would like to buy an assault weapon. Not i purchased an assault weapon and was charged, or even i tried to buy wan assault weapon and was denied. Similar to why the case was thrown out in NY for lack of standing. That was the basis of my comment, well that and Massachusetts.
 
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eboos

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I would like to buy an assault weapon. Not i purchased an assault weapon and was charged, or even i tried to buy wan assault weapon and was denied. Similar to why the case was thrown out in NY for lack of standing. That was the basis of my comment, we that an Massachusetts.
Fair point.

Edit: NY Order on Motion
In the NY case. the lack of standing hinged mostly on the fact that the Plaintiffs were seeking a preliminary injunction on a law that was yet to take effect. The court states that "wants, desires, wishes and would like" are insufficient to show that he "intends" to carry in a sensitive place once the new law goes into effect. If the Plaintiff "intended" to do so, he would be under the threat of prosecution and would have standing to challenge the law. In the NAGR case, Capen intends (see paragraph 2) on purchasing an item which is prohibited under the challenged laws. According to the complaint, he would do so, but is prohibited due to the challenged laws. I think he does have standing here.
 
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Mesatchornug

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No. Paragraph 13 is a tantrum.

"The legal term of art offends us, so we're going to use this other one we've just made up (except when we use the one we dislike) for the rest of this brief."

Frankly, it reminds me of the briefing about range closures during COVID. I'm not a great writer. As attorneys, it's their job to be. If I feel like I could do better, we have a problem.
And then he does literally the same in Para 22, WRT magazines. "I don't like this term, and here's why; I'm going to use this other term." I understand the idea. I think it could probably even be done well.

Wait. Paragraph 26. he's quoting dicta from a dissent because it "almost certainly accurately states the law post Bruen"? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. There must be better foundational quotes than that one.

In the very next paragraph he both misquotes and mis-cites Duncan, calling the G17 "the most popular handgun in America."

actual quote, per Duncan v. Becerra, 366 F. Supp. 3d 1131 | Casetext Search + Citator
Since the 1980s, one of the most popular handguns in America has been the Glock 17 pistol, which is designed for, and typically sold with, a 17-round magazine.

...sigh

Especially with all the typographical errors, it feels sloppy. You've got a national org throwing money at you to fight a case you allegedly care about. A case that has the potential to affect the fundamental rights of millions of people. How do you not do the following two things: run the content by a peer whose opinion you trust; run the copy by an editor? You have two other attorneys signed on; did neither of them see this?
 

pastera

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I would like to buy an assault weapon. Not i purchased an assault weapon and was charged, or even i tried to buy wan assault weapon and was denied. Similar to why the case was thrown out in NY for lack of standing. That was the basis of my comment, we that an Massachusetts.

Fair point.

Edit: NY Order on Motion
In the NY case. the lack of standing hinged mostly on the fact that the Plaintiffs were seeking a preliminary injunction on a law that was yet to take effect. The court states that "wants, desires, wishes and would like" are insufficient to show that he "intends" to carry in a sensitive place once the new law goes into effect. If the Plaintiff "intended" to do so, he would be under the threat of prosecution and would have standing to challenge the law. In the NAGR case, Capen intends (see paragraph 2) on purchasing an item which is prohibited under the challenged laws. According to the complaint, he would do so, but is prohibited due to the challenged laws. I think he does have standing here.

The AWB is in effect and therefore it is chilling the plaintiff's constitutional right to possess arms in common use as alleged in the complaint. That gives him standing - he doesn't need to be arrested.

The GOA lawsuit screwed up in naming the wrong defendant in a number of the claims and they failed to state their pleading in a manner to show standing (but the court really twisted itself on this one)
 

safetyfirst2125

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Replying to myself to continue thoughts and make comments on the submission

And then he does literally the same in Para 22, WRT magazines. "I don't like this term, and here's why; I'm going to use this other term." I understand the idea. I think it could probably even be done well.

Wait. Paragraph 26. he's quoting dicta from a dissent because it "almost certainly accurately states the law post Bruen"? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. There must be better foundational quotes than that one.

In the very next paragraph he both misquotes and mis-cites Duncan, calling the G17 "the most popular handgun in America."

actual quote, per Duncan v. Becerra, 366 F. Supp. 3d 1131 | Casetext Search + Citator


...sigh

Especially with all the typographical errors, it feels sloppy. You've got a national org throwing money at you to fight a case you allegedly care about. A case that has the potential to affect the fundamental rights of millions of people. How do you not do the following two things: run the content by a peer whose opinion you trust; run the copy by an editor? You have two other attorneys signed on; did neither of them see this?
Maybe somebody here could reach out to the filing attorney with some commentary/corrections so this doesn’t go down the shitter and make things worse for us all?

Maybe file some of amicus brief?
 
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Here come all the haters, you guys don’t understand. We need to be like the left and be just absolutely relentless. File lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. It’s a grind. A lost case isn’t going to hurt us unless it loses at the SCOTUS.

You need as many cases as possible to get as far up the chain as possible.
Precedent exists at all levels. A loss in the first district is still a loss and likely makes the climb harder for the next try.

Shit needs to be IRONCLAD, lawyers need to be top notch and the plaintiff f***ing squeakier than Jesus if we’re ever going to get judicial relief in this district.
 

Reptile

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NAGR???

I was hoping the value of my pre bans would go up in smoke.

Looks like when these boobs are done in court my collection with continue to be worth a fortune.
 
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Precedent exists at all levels. A loss in the first district is still a loss and likely makes the climb harder for the next try.
A split between circuits, however, creates an opportunity for an appeal to the USSC. That path had best be competently trod soon, before Republicans tanking senate races in the fall means that Biden can get one or more opportunities to change the composition of the court.
 

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Maybe somebody here could reach out to the filing attorney with some commentary/corrections so this doesn’t go down the shitter and make things worse for us all?

Maybe file some of amicus brief?
This is where IANAL comes in - I'm pretty sure that an amicus can't happen at this stage, and would have to be written by an attorney if it could. (Probably for the best, if we think about it.)

I can't speak for Attorney Couture, but critiques from the peanut gallery seem unlikely to land well, even in the kindest compliment sandwich. Who are we to tell him what to do, particularly when he's The Man in the Arena.
 

M1911

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When is it going to be ready? It seems like everywhere else in the country gun owners are beating back the machine but in MA it's just business as usual.
Be patient. They aren’t going to discuss their strategy in public. The important thing is to win, not to win a race.
 

eboos

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This is where IANAL comes in - I'm pretty sure that an amicus can't happen at this stage, and would have to be written by an attorney if it could. (Probably for the best, if we think about it.)
(briefly considered blowing the dust off my USDCMA admission)

Edit: I really wish I had the chance to get to know swatgig better and to work with him.
 

Mesatchornug

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When is it going to be ready? It seems like everywhere else in the country gun owners are beating back the machine but in MA it's just business as usual.
If I were trying to use ladder-climbing for good, I might consider society's comfort with handguns as a stepping stone to jam "common use" into our courts, before turning it sideways for magazines and so-called "assault weapons."
 

eboos

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If I were trying to use ladder-climbing for good, I might consider society's comfort with handguns as a stepping stone to jam "common use" into our courts, before turning it sideways for magazines and so-called "assault weapons."
I see a thumb tack and I want to hit that shit with a sledge hammer. Being from CT, I want to see some successful challenges to the AWBs and magazine bans. Unlike MA, there is no grandfathering anything for me.
 

Mesatchornug

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I see a thumb tack and I want to hit that shit with a sledge hammer. Being from CT, I want to see some successful challenges to the AWBs and magazine bans. Unlike MA, there is no grandfathering anything for me.
This is why I want to party with you.

It's also why I keep not going back for that extra piece of paper. If I were an esquire, I might forget to get real (read: paying) gigs and just try to tilt at every possible windmill.

Instead, I come on here and MMQ y'all who actually get in the ring.
 

terraformer

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It's my opinion that they are trying to capitalize on their DC win (which was minimal) in Colorado assuming the 10th goes their way on appeal. Then there is a circuit split between the 10th and somewhere else, which could be the 1st. This is a hugely risky gambit and one anyone who lived here and cared about what the future looked like would be cautious to take.
 

terraformer

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When is it going to be ready? It seems like everywhere else in the country gun owners are beating back the machine but in MA it's just business as usual.
It's a realization that not a single opening in MA FDC or CA1 was filled while Trump was in office and then once out, Republican appointed judges went senior status making more openings. Now those empty spots are getting filled and by the likes of Julia Kobik out of the AG's office. Like it or not, but CA1 and MA FDC is now what CA was for decades. You aren't making new law here via the courts on gun rights (or anything conservative for that matter). It happens elsewhere and in MA we can play cleanup. Beware national organizations looking to use MA as their whipping boy for procedural and strategic reasons. They won't get the cops coming to their door to take their guns, but they will fundraise mightily after the cops come for yours.
 

VetteGirlMA

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It's a realization that not a single opening in MA FDC or CA1 was filled while Trump was in office and then once out, Republican appointed judges went senior status making more openings. Now those empty spots are getting filled and by the likes of Julia Kobik out of the AG's office. Like it or not, but CA1 and MA FDC is now what CA was for decades. You aren't making new law here via the courts on gun rights (or anything conservative for that matter). It happens elsewhere and in MA we can play cleanup. Beware national organizations looking to use MA as their whipping boy for procedural and strategic reasons. They won't get the cops coming to their door to take their guns, but they will fundraise mightily after the cops come for yours.

So let's cower in the corner because CA1 is filled with gun grabbing liberals who want to thumb their nose at a legitimate SCOTUS decision they're supposed to follow. Got it. Unless Comm2a has something better than "well let's just sit on our hands and do nothing" I don't see any reason to keep sending money. It's like paying for inaction.
 

eboos

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So let's cower in the corner because CA1 is filled with gun grabbing liberals who want to thumb their nose at a legitimate SCOTUS decision they're supposed to follow. Got it. Unless Comm2a has something better than "well let's just sit on our hands and do nothing" I don't see any reason to keep sending money. It's like paying for inaction.
Although I am not privy to anything (literally ANYTHING), to play devil's advocate: the approved handguns roster thing is MA specific. Knowing that a AWB challenge stands little chance of success in MA and the 1st Cir., maybe it was wise to have a narrowly tailored case to tee things up that could seem relatively "harmless" in the eyes of the opposition.
 

M1911

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So let's cower in the corner because CA1 is filled with gun grabbing liberals who want to thumb their nose at a legitimate SCOTUS decision they're supposed to follow. Got it. Unless Comm2a has something better than "well let's just sit on our hands and do nothing" I don't see any reason to keep sending money. It's like paying for inaction.
No, it’s a strategic decision. Wait until an AWB falls in a district with a better makeup of judges. Then use that decision as precedent.
 

M1911

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I appreciate all who are fighting for us but I would like to win in my lifetime..
I understand and agree. But the best way to win is not to rush in with a poorly thought out and poorly argued lawsuit. It is better that an AWB fall in another state than that an AWB is upheld here in MA.
 

CATI

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I 100% could not write a satisfactory legal document like that and admit to that
It looks like I wrote that o_O

I made it through that document and I feel the argument should be the Fourteenth Amendment
In MA you have "special classes" (police officers) vs citizens with mag limits/AWB and that is a violation of that
And I do not see that
 

eboos

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They arent worth anything if they never sell....
I once came across an estate tax valuation case where the estate was valued by the IRS $50 Million higher then the executor valued it due to an art piece that was illegal to sell or transfer. The executor claimed it had no legal market value, the IRS claimed its black market value was taxable. The art piece was horrendous. [laugh]
 

1903Collector

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I understand and agree. But the best way to win is not to rush in with a poorly thought out and poorly argued lawsuit. It is better that an AWB fall in another state than that an AWB is upheld here in MA.
I get it, its just those wheels turn so f***ing slowly! Then again patience has never been one of my strong points.
 

Dadstoys

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So let's cower in the corner because CA1 is filled with gun grabbing liberals who want to thumb their nose at a legitimate SCOTUS decision they're supposed to follow. Got it. Unless Comm2a has something better than "well let's just sit on our hands and do nothing" I don't see any reason to keep sending money. It's like paying for inaction.
Think of it as hunting .
You don't go blasting wildly at the first sight of brown.
You pick your shot with calm and determination .
I'm going to wait till that deer steps out from behind that tree all day if need be to get that shot at the vitals.
 
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