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MrsTypeo1313

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WESTCHASE, Fla., (March 10) - When Stacey Kelley's husband, Army Pvt. David Kelley who is serving in Iraq, sent her a cardboard sign expressing support for U.S. troops overseas, she put it up in the yard of her suburban Tampa, Fla., home.

Kelley, 24, never imagined that it would raise controversy, or that she would be threatened with a $100-a-day fine if she refused to take it down.

"I've been in tears. I couldn't believe that they wanted me to take it down," she said. The Westchase Homeowners Association threatened her with the $100 a day for up to 10 days because the sign is in violation of association rules, but Kelley said she was ready to pay.

"If I have to pay, I'll pay the fines. My husband says the same thing," she said. "If we have to pay them, we'll pay them. If they're gonna try to give us more than a thousand-dollar fine, there's enough people out there that are willing to help me out."

It was an issue that caused a conflict for the association's president, who is also an Army reservist. Daryl Manning, an Iraq War veteran, said he hoped that some compromise could be worked out.

"I've been there. I know right where her husband is. I've been in [the] country. I was over there for 20 months," he said.

A compromise was reached Thursday night, but it doesn't mean Kelley won't be facing a fine -- just one a lot lower than the amount originally threatened. Instead, the seven-member board voted to impose just a $1-per-day penalty for as long as the sign stays up.

The fine will eventually go up if Kelley doesn't take the sign down, Manning said.

"There's a violation to have any sign in any homeowner's yard, regardless of what it says," Manning said.

Manning said the association's rules about signs, which only allow "For Sale" or "For Lease" signs, were in place to keep the community clean and keep the peace.

"The problem could arise where it could be a neighbor across the street or across the road that says, 'Bring the troops home. Get out of the theater. Cut and run.' What happens when that occurs? So we cannot make exceptions in this case," he said.

"All my neighbors told me this morning they're willing to go out and buy signs today and start putting them in everyone's yard because that's how it should be," Kelley said on Thursday.

Some neighbors said they didn't agree with the homeowners association's objection to Kelley's sign, despite the community rules.

"Of course, they say that there are rules, but in this particular case I think we should overlook that particular rule and give her the moral support," resident Ed Drost said.

"Gee whiz, the sign says, 'Support our troops.' OK?" said Merv Shiner, another neighbor.

ABC News affiliate WFTS-TV in Tampa, Fla., contributed to this report.


03-11-06 09:59 EST


Copyright 2006 ABCNEWS.com
 
One of the reasons I would never live where there is a home owners assoc. My neighbors across the street hate that I have a support our troops lawn flag, a yellow ribbon lawn flag, my service banner in the window and my American flag out all the time now, especially since Alan is over there.
I also put more out there just to piss them off.[smile]
 
I think it was a good compromise. Homeowner associations put all kinds of covenants on deeds. Like no clotheslines, TV or satellite antennas and such. If they don't like the rules that they agreed to when they bought the house, they can try and change them.
 
Exactly why I bought a house (and not an "association").

I've served papers threatening eviction on people who live in suburban single family homes that are "condo-ized" for real mickey mouse violations. One couple was fined $4K for a small tear in a screen and not having their deck table "squared" precisely where/how it is supposed to be laid out on their rear deck . . . and this was a house on a 1/2 acre lot.
 
We've got just shy of 3 acres, but we live right in the center of town. The ones that hate my support the troops lawn decor, also bitched about the flags on the telephone poles being up until after Vetrans Day. The city people need to move back to the city as far as I'm concerned.[grin] [wink]
 
LenS said:
Exactly why I bought a house (and not an "association").
Click to expand...

I will NEVER live in a condo or a house with an "association" attached to it. If I want to put a flag up (It's right outside my window) or a tacky pink flamingo (had TWO stolen from my lawn!), that's my business... and if my neighbors don't like it, they can come over and ask politely if I'll take it down. (I may still say no, but I'll do it politely.)

Sue, where would I get a "support the troops" flag? I've seen the cardboard signs, but not a flag.

Ross
 
LenS said:
Exactly why I bought a house (and not an "association").

I've served papers threatening eviction on people who live in suburban single family homes that are "condo-ized" for real mickey mouse violations. One couple was fined $4K for a small tear in a screen and not having their deck table "squared" precisely where/how it is supposed to be laid out on their rear deck . . . and this was a house on a 1/2 acre lot.
Click to expand...
Yup, that's we stayed away from developments when we bought our house. Ya get what ya pay for. Imagine, knowingly and willingly giving up your rights but that's the choice they made when they purchased.
 
I heard of a guy who is fighting an association rule such as this.

He claims that he is still a citizen of the US and has Constitutional rights that no organization has the right to take away. He claims that all such covenents are unconstitutional and non binding...even if you sign such an agreement as you cannot give up rights to a private org that are guarrenteed by the govt.

I hope he's right.
 
I believe that there is a ton of case law on the subject and most if not all decisions come out in favor of the association. It's not as though they didn't know of the covenants when they purchased. If they didn't know about the covenants, shame on them for not reading the fine print.

Maybe one of our resident lawyers has some experience in this field?
 
Yeah, the rules suck, but if you don't like them, don't sign on the dotted line.

BTW... has anyone ever heard of any HOA/Condo/rental leases situation where keeping, owning, storing firearms or ammo was prohibited?
 
Ross, i found mine at walmart. They were clearanced. They are the small garden flags, but I have them in front of my house. I will go to Walmart tomorrow and see if they still have some Ross. If so I will pick you up one.
 
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A friend of mine put up solar panels on his house in California, even though the covenant or whatever forbade it. It turned out there was a state law (or maybe federal?) which allowed home owners to install solar panels, regardless of the local regulations by the development.

So there's precedence for the individual rights of the homeowner in that case.
 
Good for you Mrs. WW. The last time I checked, the First Amendment enumerated your right to put up pretty much anything you want in your yard. Why is it that idiots (usually liberals) can put up any crap they want and call it "art", yet when decent people dare to show support for the American way, all hell breaks loose. I thank you and your family for serving our country. Tell your neighbors if they dont like the view, move.

Regards,
Chris
 
I think the concern about covenants on property deeds and "giving up your rights" is seriously overblown. The only thing that would bother me would be if the rules were subject to revision by anything other than unanimous consent. That would be constitute giving up rights. I'd very much prefer property convenents to zoning regulations, which are always subject to political manipulation. It's simply respect for property rights; unlike zoning, you know exactly what you're paying for and getting up front. How would you like the idea of buying property with the clear written understanding that neither you nor any of your neighbors use your property for something you can't stand with the property (of course, all your neighbors bought with the same understanding), and then have the state decide that everybody (including your nextdoor neighbor) should be able to do it anyway? That's a violation of individual rights.

Ken
 
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KMaurer said:
I think the concern about covenants on property deeds and "giving up your rights" is seriously overblown.
Click to expand...

I don't - I could give a rat's red rear end of what my neighbors think of my decor - and conversely I don't care what they put up or how they paint their house. I think that the neighborhood associations that control those things are pure crap and I won't even consider a house controlled by that kind of nonsense.

Example: Last winter someone took out my mailbox and I put up a temporary post in a Home Depot 5 gallon bucket. I didn't get around to putting up a new post last summer, so it's still there. Had I belonged to one of those associations, I'd probably be fined for doing so. As it is, the only grief I get about it is from SWMBO. [devil] But I'll take care of it this spring, anyway - I finally figured out an approach that will make it easy to replace the post again when the next idiot takes it out.
 
Make your mailbox look like this.
Looks sturdy enough and will for sure p'off the Libs in your neighborhood
MailBox.jpg
 
JuergenG said:
Make your mailbox look like this.
Looks sturdy enough and will for sure p'off the Libs in your neighborhood
MailBox.jpg
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the way my yard is setup, there's a hill where I'd have to put the butt. Wouldn't work unless I feel like taking a backhoe to the hill and rock wall.
 
We have a homeowners association here in Jersey (that I am on the board of) but that is solely for maintaining the common areas (retention basin, trees etc) and doesn't set rules, fees are $450 a year and we use most of the money for a couple of good block parties a year.

My new house in NH doesn't have an association, and I am happy about that, although I will miss the idea of the association being a good way to get to know your neighbours.
 
KMaurer said:
... I'd very much prefer property convenents to zoning regulations, which are always subject to political manipulation. It's simply respect for property rights; unlike zoning, you know exactly what you're paying for and getting up front....
Ken
Click to expand...

Except I am aware of nothing that exempts developments with covenents from zoning...So you would be dealing with both issues, and the covenents are ussually far stricter and less flexable, than most municipal zoning regs. And at least you have recoarse with zoning regs,IE. zoning board of appeals, courts etc, in which you will have far greater success rate with than trying to argue against the enforcement of "neighborhood restrictions" that you agreed to and signed when you bought your house...
 
I'm in a townhouse condo and the rules are the same here, plus no "for sale", etc. signs. I don't like it, but when I bought (14 years ago) I didn't have much choice.

While I feel for her, and having to pay a fine, I also agree with the board member who said if they make an exception for her, then they'll have to let the a-holes put up signs that slam our boys or the war. Ya can't allow one and not another. At least they gave her a break on the fine.
 

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