Knife wielding man shot near BU over storrow

[GlockJock]

Not sure how someone with his record is out of prison after trying to kill someone with a sword in '09. But it's massachusetts, so that explains it.

This.
"How is he out of prison?"..... Google Amy Lord's killer, State Trooper Charbonier, and especially (for me, since I know one of his distant cousins) Boston Police Officer Thomas Rose's killer.

I've discussed these cases many times here because I actually have fringe connections with the victims but am always moved to remind everyone of Tommy Rose, for it's just your typical f*cked up MA liberal tale. Tommy Rose was a good cop and a great guy. He was killed by someone who had already killed a convenience store clerk, "served his time" for that one (MA translation: light sentence/early release), was arrested by Tom and grabbed his gun while being booked. This fine gentleman then "served his time" again in MA (see previous translation), was RELEASED, went to Rhode Island to, y'know, "get his life back together"..... He was arrested again shortly thereafter for... (drumroll)... attempting to run down (i.e. kill) a police officer with his vehicle while trying to flee after committing a felony.

You simply can't make this stuff up.

 

[drgrant]

That's just stupid. They can get guns we can't but not non lethal tazers. This place sure be crazy.

They can, but they have to get additional training and a license just to be able to use a taser. All because some bad cop a bazillion years ago raped some woman with a stun gun or some BS like that.

-Mike

 

[FrugalFannie]

Never made a threatening move, just refused to comply so he was shot like a dog. #BostonStrong

that's pretty much SOP these days. refuse to comply with any order and you will be shot dead by the cops

 

[fencer]

Guy was a total scumbag. Good riddance.

On a positive note - looks like the MSP switch to 45 ACP is working out just fine.

Channel 5's website says he made facebook posts saying that he was "getting stronger" and would not comply with police. Looks like all that time working out in prison really paid off. He is going to look awesome at his funeral.

 

[FreeWillie]

You need to be within 25 feet or less of the person for a taser, are willing to get that close? Also, what if you miss? now you have a plastic hammer.

I'm just saying that cops not having a tazer as an option is absurd. I'm not trying to second guess the event that transpired or suggest that a tazer would have been more appropriate in this situation. A person with a knife inside the 21 foot circle is very much a lethal threat.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[Gillham]

Are there new pictures out yet of the scene? I've just seen crummy wide helicopter shots..

 

[GlockJock]

I always get a quietly private chuckle out of the comments by families/friends etc of the "victims" of police shootings who say things like "Damn.. maybe they should have shot him, yeah, but why shoot to kill?.. Why not just shoot him in the leg?" etc...

I know comments and thoughts like those are all TV and Hollywood movie driven, but I just wonder, if indeed cops began applying this type of thinking as standard procedure , how many of these "He was just recently trying to get his life together" perps would get shot in the leg... and then bleed out right there on the street.. before the protesters started marching and shouting "Black Femoral Arteries Matter!"...

Just sayin'

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/06/knife_holder_s_family_why_kill

 

[Gillham]

I always get a quietly private chuckle out of the comments by families/friends etc of the "victims" of police shootings who say things like "Damn.. maybe they should have shot him, yeah, but why shoot to kill?.. Why not just shoot him in the leg?" etc...

I know comments and thoughts like those are all TV and Hollywood movie driven, but I just wonder, if indeed cops began applying this type of thinking as standard procedure , how many of these "He was just recently trying to get his life together" perps would get shot in the leg... and then bleed out right there on the street.. before the protesters started marching and shouting "Black Femoral Arteries Matter!"...

Just sayin'

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/06/knife_holder_s_family_why_kill

Or missed and nailed someone through the roof of their car as they drove under the bridge

 

[Hoover]

You need to be within 25 feet or less of the person for a taser, are willing to get that close? Also, what if you miss? now you have a plastic hammer.

Also, they don't work with loose clothes, bulky clothes, etc. If the person is armed with a gun, knife, etc I would never go witha taser if I were a cop. They are useful when you know the person is not armed.

This.
"How is he out of prison?"..... Google Amy Lord's killer, State Trooper Charbonier, and especially (for me, since I know one of his distant cousins) Boston Police Officer Thomas Rose's killer.

I've discussed these cases many times here because I actually have fringe connections with the victims but am always moved to remind everyone of Tommy Rose, for it's just your typical f*cked up MA liberal tale. Tommy Rose was a good cop and a great guy. He was killed by someone who had already killed a convenience store clerk, "served his time" for that one (MA translation: light sentence/early release), was arrested by Tom and grabbed his gun while being booked. This fine gentleman then "served his time" again in MA (see previous translation), was RELEASED, went to Rhode Island to, y'know, "get his life back together"..... He was arrested again shortly thereafter for... (drumroll)... attempting to run down (i.e. kill) a police officer with his vehicle while trying to flee after committing a felony.

You simply can't make this stuff up.

Sounds like the murderer and life long con devals parole board released and momths later robbed a kohls and killed a woburn cop. I think there was another in boston who was a paroled murderer who killed a conveinence store clerk a few years ago too.

Are there new pictures out yet of the scene? I've just seen crummy wide helicopter shots..

It was on the foot bridge over storrow drive, right at a corner section. Tight quarters.

 

[Gillham]

It was on the foot bridge over storrow drive, right at a corner section. Tight quarters.

Well I know that
I was across the River watching all the action from the comfort of my air conditioned van. Just wondering if there was a picture of the knife, evidence markers of where casings landed versus location of the body. Help paint a picture of what might have gone down.

Since I don't trust anything anyone puts on the news, I'd like to see the facts

 

[Chevy 2 65]

This is nuts, they are on a foot bridge, close quarters no where to go and had asked to drop the weapon. What would you have them do? What if it was you, joe civilian as ****, and this guy approaches you on that foot bridge?

 

[hminsky]

It's hard to judge in just a few moments what a guy who has a knife, who is acting angry, evasive, or just plain giving off weird vibes, is going to do next.

After the fact, it sure looks like this guy is scum though.

 

[M1911]

Here we go again, All the keyboard commandos with no training or experience telling everyone how it should have been done. Cop does anything and it is instantly and automatically bad.

Yup.

If you haven't done a Tueller drill, you really should. You might be surprised just how fast someone can close distance with you.

Back when I took LFi-1, Ayoob had us all do the Tueller drill. Even among a group of mostly older, out of shape folks, we closed the distance very rapidly. Ayoob told us the story of one student (who I believe is an NES member), who broke his leg in a spiral fracture on his first step of the Tueller drill. This fellow completed the Tueller drill in about 3 seconds, on that broken leg, before being carted off to the hospital.

Another thing Ayoob showed us were autopsy photos of murder victims. One was of a young woman who had been murdered with a 2 1/2" pocket knife. Her neck was nearly severed.

Do not underestimate the danger of someone armed with a knife. And do not overestimate the stopping ability of your handgun. Yes, some people stop immediately upon being shot. Others have fought for another 15 seconds even after being shot directly in the heart.

 

[Hoover]

I have done this drill and taught this drill. I am more concerned about a person with an edged weapon than I am about a person with a gun in close range (Conversation distance) A person with an edged weapon can be "dead on their feet" and still motor, unless that person is shot in the brain housing group or base of the skull, there is no instant stop.
A person with an edged weapon can produce life long and death even after they have been shot. A cut artery on the arm from defecting the blow, Bleed out in minutes. a severed tendon, loss of use of that part of the body. Yeah you will get reminded of it everyday when you can't even reel in a fish.

Think about these things before you all run your keyboard.

As to those of you that think that every cop should be equipped with and carry all the less lethal devices. That is not being realistic.

The one who wrote the book on forensics that everyone else follows testified in the zimmerman trial. He said, I can rip a person heart out of their body and they would still have enough reserve oxygen in their blood stream to walk or run 15 to 20 ft and live for 30 seconds.

A person is not dead until their brain stops functioning, a fatal shot/injury to areas other than the brain stem is fatal but not immediate.

 

[fencer]

Yup.

If you haven't done a Tueller drill, you really should. You might be surprised just how fast someone can close distance with you.

i

I did this drill at Sig. When I first heard about it I laughed, thinking it would be a piece of cake. Boy was I ever mistaken.

It changed the type of holsters I use.

 

[Pvt. Cowboy]

I did this drill at Sig. When I first heard about it I laughed, thinking it would be a piece of cake. Boy was I ever mistaken.

It changed the type of holsters I use.

Learned about it when I was 19. I was dispatching, and shooting the breeze with the cops on duty. Somehow this convo came up, and I was SURE I could unholster- from Mexican carry mind you, and get a round out (empty gun and a click!) before he could rush me and stab me with his pen. Boy was I wrong... Very eye opening.

Also, the MSP does not carry tasers.

I also read this guy had issued a bunch of threats to local employees, some females, saying he knew they "went out the back door after work, I'm gonna get you tomorrow night." I wouldn't really call that "not a threat to anyone."

 

[Gillham]

Learned about it when I was 19. I was dispatching, and shooting the breeze with the cops on duty. Somehow this convo came up, and I was SURE I could unholster- from Mexican carry mind you, and get a round out (empty gun and a click!) before he could rush me and stab me with his pen. Boy was I wrong... Very eye opening.

Also, the MSP does not carry tasers.

I also read this guy had issued a bunch of threats to local employees, some females, saying he knew they "went out the back door after work, I'm gonna get you tomorrow night." I wouldn't really call that "not a threat to anyone."

His facebook is littered with nothing to lose posts, and death and blah blah blah. Borderline suicide by cop.

 

[spcantwell]

Just issue baseball bats to the cops instead. Better reach then a knife and even works through padded clothing.
Btw, do cops even have beanbag shotguns anymore are are they not less lethal enough?

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[Precision Point Firearms]

You need to be within 25 feet or less of the person for a taser, are willing to get that close? Also, what if you miss? now you have a plastic hammer.

This. We're not supposed combat a lethal threat with non lethal weapons unless we have coverage from another officer with a lethal weapon for this very reason.

 

[Precision Point Firearms]

Btw, do cops even have beanbag shotguns anymore are are they not less lethal enough?

Most guys I know have them slung over their shoulder when they work details, along with pepperball gun, taser, bear spray, pocket negotiator, pocket pyshiatrist, flavored licorice and puzzles.

 

[Marine-daughter]

Interesting read, The Fallacy Of Equal Force


http://monderno.com/monderno/fallac...m=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Monderno+(Monderno)

The first rule is this; you are not required to suffer harm before you deliver it and you may deliver as much harm as needed to stop the threat

There is a concept known as the Law of Diminishing Returns; it’s rooted in the psychology of economics but it transcends that focus and applies to all. Basically, the more I do something without seeing an improvement, the greater the risk that it will not produce, or stop producing favorable results; a steady decline in effectiveness or an outright stop depending on the variables. If a citizen or an officer says “drop the gun, or I will shoot you,” and the threat does not comply, will a second conditional threat with the same wording be as effective? More convincing? A verbal command is only as good as its ability to invoke compliance and this compliance is totally dependent on the bad guy deciding to comply. Guess what? You can threaten all the force you want if they don’t, but the ultimate decision is up to them and there is no way for you, or for anyone, to predict their intentions or future actions. Intent is unpredictable. We can make assumptions based on their words or actions, but still not have anywhere near 100% reliability in our predictions on what they will actually do, just what we think theymay do. How many verbal commands should be given? Zero? Ten? There is no magic number, unfortunately. Each situation is going to be unique, but what you are not required to do is issue a set number of commands before you can use force yourself. If a threat does not drop the gun after one verbal, should force be used? Barring other possible options, my opinion is yes. Each additional verbal command is a gamble with your personal safety. Maybe even the first verbal command is a gamble. Think of it like this; no matter how fast someone is, action is almost always going to be faster.

 

[Bob P]

So you're in Boston. You're carrying like any sane human while visiting Boston. We will assume you're licensed etc. a guy comes up to you with a knife. You draw and tell him to take off. He doesn't and threatens you. Do you shoot? So if you answer yes, why is it wrong for the trooper to have shot him? We talk a lot about holding the police to the same standards as we're held to. On the face of it I don't find fault with the troopers actions.

 

[spcantwell]

So you're in Boston. You're carrying like any sane human while visiting Boston. We will assume you're licensed etc. a guy comes up to you with a knife. You draw and tell him to take off. He doesn't and threatens you. Do you shoot? So if you answer yes, why is it wrong for the trooper to have shot him? We talk a lot about holding the police to the same standards as we're held to. On the face of it I don't find fault with the troopers actions.

ROTFL... if a peon shoots because someone was holding a knife and wasnt actualy attacking you (much less not leaveing when you tell them too), you are going to jail for a LONG LONG time.

If the cops do it... no harm, at least everyone (peons dont count) went home safe....

That is what most people have an issue with, the double standard, not weather it actualy makes sense.

 

[todd c]

i have no probelm with how this played out. i heard audio this morning you can hear the cops repeatidly say ( drop the knife its not worth it) this wasn't a case where they smoked someone with out trying to get them to give up first. even the guy who supplied the video said in his opinion the cops had no choice.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

ROTFL... if a peon shoots because someone was holding a knife and wasnt actualy attacking you (much less not leaveing when you tell them too), you are going to jail for a LONG LONG time.

If the cops do it... no harm, at least everyone (peons dont count) went home safe....

That is what most people have an issue with, the double standard, not weather it actualy makes sense.

Really, and you know this how?

 

[spcantwell]

Sorry, but that is absolute bullshit!!!!!

Really? based on what exactly? The guy who shot the knife welding atacker in the Boston hospital who WAS ACTIVELY ATTACKING PEOPLE. He was still arrested and thrown into jail... only later released after enough of the public complained (and the fact that is was blindingly obvious that he did everything right and there was no way they could possible even suggest he was in the wrong, as hard as they tried).

You just go right ahead and belive that[STRIKE=peons] civilians [/STRIKE] peons in Mass are held to the same level as police when it comes to anthing involveing guns...

 

[Mike S]

So you're in Boston. You're carrying like any sane human while visiting Boston. We will assume you're licensed etc. a guy comes up to you with a knife. You draw and tell him to take off. He doesn't and threatens you. Do you shoot? So if you answer yes, why is it wrong for the trooper to have shot him? We talk a lot about holding the police to the same standards as we're held to. On the face of it I don't find fault with the troopers actions.

I was thinking about this exact thing the other day Bob and it got me thinking about the LTC holder who shot and killed the guy at MGH that was trying to stab a doctor to death, despite multiple eye witnesses who said the LTC holder did everything right he wound up having his LTC pulled and being under a grand jury investigation for 6 months.

Does anyone know if the MSP trooper will have his LTC pulled and will he undergo a grand jury investigation? Will he have his face all over the news for a few days?

I'll bet he's already back to work, or at the least on a paid vacation. (and i've not seen him on the news)

It seems to me that the good old MA double standard is in full effect here regarding that.

 

[spcantwell]

Really, and you know this how?

Based on every case where we hear about a law abaing citizen getting in trouble for useing a weapon (no matter how justified the shooting is) and every case we hear of police at worst getting a paid vacation for UNjustifable weapon use.

 

[Serapis]

To those talking about tasers and bean bags, would you want that? If your were in a self defense scenario with a guy with a knife would you want anything less than a gun. Meet a lethal threat with a lethal threat. Pretty basic stuff. Again. Watch that video of how fast it goes down.


Sent from my mobile phone from behind enemy lines.

 

[spcantwell]

To those talking about tasers and bean bags, would you want that? If your were in a self defense scenario with a guy with a knife would you want anything less than a gun. Meet a lethal threat with a lethal threat. Pretty basic stuff. Again. Watch that video of how fast it goes down.
Sent from my mobile phone from behind enemy lines.

Actauly my 'bean bag' shot gun question was really just a question. I dont nessiarily think they are all that usefull or should be used in all situations but I havnt heard much about them in the past 5 years or so, so I was wondering if most PD's phased them out in favor of something Less leathal or more leathal?

Though the more I think about it, Having a guy just standing on a bridge with cops on both ends (I am assumeing there was no risk of freindly fire)... he has no place to go so someone (once there are multible cops with weapons drawn at all egress points) could run back to a cruser and grab one to bring him down. As soon as he starts to charge I have no problem with the cops opening fire, its the fireing BEFORE he charges that I have issues with.