Knife wielding drunk shot by Police

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43636474/ns/us_news-life/

So, if it was a civilian doing the shooting, what would people say? The posts by readers came down pretty hard on the cops. My posted comment there is below...



Assuming that he was drunk, threw a bottle at the Police, and charged them with a knife... For starters, don't bring a knife to a gun fight, that's just stupid.

Tazers are effective, but when you approach an ARMED suspect, they stay holstered. Even if the Tazer was out, a charging man still has momentum, and may well have fallen into the officer. Then what? Also, a vest is just that, a VEST. It is NOT body armor, and a Carotid Artery, Femoral Artery, or stab to the abdomen is likely to be fatal.

There is no such thing as "shoot to disable" in reality, or in any training program anywhere. Anybody who has ever had ANY firearm training is trained to shoot "Center Mass". God forbid the Cop aimed low and missed... The 9mm or .40 caliber round traveling 900-1000 feet per second would have traveled down the platform and killed somebody who actually WAS innocent. Then it would have been "Wild shot kills innocent University Student 300 feet away." Aiming at a leg 5 inches wide on a charging attacker 15 feet away is a trick very few of us would be capable of.

Second-guessing is easy, it's called Monday morning quarterbacking. Yes, there are bad cops. There are bad doctors, lawyers, priests, pizza delivery guys and everything else. They are BY FAR the minority, except maybe the lawyers:) These guys are doing a damn hard job, under constant pressure and scrutiny, and 99.99% of the time they get it right. You want perfection? Be perfect yourself first!

Sure, I wish the guy had gotten the chance to sober up and get the help he probably needed, but he charged two cops with drawn guns! Get real!
 
unless he can stab as quick as bullets, the force seemed extreme, i mean are they above tasing folks in the bay area. this was not justified. he could've slept it off or gotten help, now he's dead.
Those comments went full retard quick.

Pretty sad they felt the need to disclose everyones race at the end of the story.
 
I'm pretty sure that most police officers use a 30 foot rule for dealing with deadly force threats. Whether it's a baseball bat, a knife, or gun. Anything that attacks them with deadly force, and gets closer than 30 feet is considered "crossing the line."

I might be wrong, but even a drunk can move pretty quickly, covering 30 feet in the time it takes most people to draw and shoot.
 
Not to mention what kind of cooties you might get from a vagrant carrying a sharp object. Even if he didn't hit a major artery, a minor nick could still get you Hepatitis, HIV, and who knows what else. There was clearly a threat, and the officers responded appropriately.

I couldn't read too many of the posts on the article without gouging out my eyes. There are a lot of stupid people out there.
 
I'm pretty sure that most police officers use a 30 foot rule for dealing with deadly force threats. Whether it's a baseball bat, a knife, or gun. Anything that attacks them with deadly force, and gets closer than 30 feet is considered "crossing the line."

I might be wrong, but even a drunk can move pretty quickly, covering 30 feet in the time it takes most people to draw and shoot.

It's actually 21 feet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

And here is Massad Ayoub's take:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_n10_v36/ai_11549909/

He's one of the best resources out there on a variety of shooting subjects, I recommend EVERYBODY look him up...
 
It doesn't matter what the sheeple think. As long as police and prosecutors know that knives are deadly weapons (and they do), shooting a knife-wielding assailant is a good shoot.

WRT to the commenters on that article, I'd like for each one of them to face me without a firearm while I have a knife in my hand.
 
It doesn't matter what the sheeple think. As long as police and prosecutors know that knives are deadly weapons (and they do), shooting a knife-wielding assailant is a good shoot.

WRT to the commenters on that article, I'd like for each one of them to face me without a firearm while I have a knife in my hand.

++1

Too many sheep opinions
Cop is safe, Knife wielding assailant is dead!
Job complete[thumbsup]
 
The point of the Tueller Drill isn't that 21 feet is some magical distance at which you should start shooting. The point of the Tueller Drill is to demonstrate just how quickly someone with a contact weapon can close the distance and engage.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43636474/ns/us_news-life/

So, if it was a civilian doing the shooting, what would people say? The posts by readers came down pretty hard on the cops. My posted comment there is below...

I was always under the impression that Police ARE Civilians. IMO, which might be wrong but there are Active Military and Civilians. Which category do the Police fit into?

Back on subject:

He charged with a knife and got shot. Sounds like a good shoot to me.
 
"You take a knife and come at me when I have mace, a taser, and a bullet proof vest on.

I'm no burly cop but I'll F you up before you ever touch me with that knife. Add the billy club and it's really on. No gun needed." Some of these comments are ridiculous. First off a bullet proof vest isn't going to do anything against a stab and mace irritates your eyes but still makes the person a threat. A taser is no guarantee if the person is wearing a winter jacket or leather jacket.
 
"You take a knife and come at me when I have mace, a taser, and a bullet proof vest on.

I'm no burly cop but I'll F you up before you ever touch me with that knife. Add the billy club and it's really on. No gun needed." Some of these comments are ridiculous. First off a bullet proof vest isn't going to do anything against a stab and mace irritates your eyes but still makes the person a threat. A taser is no guarantee if the person is wearing a winter jacket or leather jacket.

Righty-o. last i checked, many vests don't cover thyroids, jugulars, femoral arteries, etc., not to mention other targets like armpits, and those are all good places to dip a blade in. other targets, particularly foreheads, can take a shooter right out of the fight even if they aren't vital. I'm so sick of hearing the "knife to a gunfight" saying... *roll*
 
I keep seeing the Police civilian thing a lot.It seems to matter to some folks what kind of label they have.I always felt you were either Military or a civilian.Therefore I feel Police are civilians with arrest powers.No biggie.
 
knife will kill ya just as well (if not better) then a gun in that kind of distance. if he felt he needed to shoot when in that possition, then he should have.
 
Comments on the article are exactly what I expected from the pack of fecal discharges populating San Francisco and its surrounding area. Knuckleheads completely devoid of any concept of the brutality of reality. Its all buttercups and rainbow hugs. Morons.
 
It's actually 21 feet:

Here we go again TWENTY ONE FEET IS THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM a trained officer needs to break leather and get 2 shots center mass.

Note the MINIMUM. Now since the guns were already out the minimum distances could be interpreted differently, but if you are letting anyone with an edged weapon get to 21 feet before you act, there is a good chance you are going to need stitches.
 
"You take a knife and come at me when I have mace, a taser, and a bullet proof vest on.

I'm no burly cop but I'll F you up before you ever touch me with that knife. Add the billy club and it's really on. No gun needed." Some of these comments are ridiculous. First off a bullet proof vest isn't going to do anything against a stab and mace irritates your eyes but still makes the person a threat. A taser is no guarantee if the person is wearing a winter jacket or leather jacket.

I completely agree with your point (not the comment you quoted obviously). I've been sprayed 3 times in various trainings. It takes a bit of your steam out, but perfectly capable of stabbing someone to death while covered in hot sauce. I also am a big fan of Kali and Escrima from my younger days, and it's one of my bigger fears dealing with a knife in a situation. If you think about it, dealing with a firearm, you have one single line of attack to deal with. A knife has SO many variables and lines of attack that it's just scary.
 
Sitting here watching "Worlds most shocking" on truTV... a clip from Brazil... FIVE cops, one with an AK (I think) vs ONE guy with a 10" knife. They talked, they cajoled, he rushed them, they talked more, finally he went totally off the deep end... THREE cops go to the ER, "seriously wounded", the "alleged criminal" dead after at least 8 shots I was able to hear on the video.

So, if I had ANY doubts about the actions of these transit cops before, I don't anymore!!!
 
I'm pretty sure that most police officers use a 30 foot rule for dealing with deadly force threats. Whether it's a baseball bat, a knife, or gun. Anything that attacks them with deadly force, and gets closer than 30 feet is considered "crossing the line."

I might be wrong, but even a drunk can move pretty quickly, covering 30 feet in the time it takes most people to draw and shoot.

Try it sometime, you'd be suprised how many times you get stabbed KNOWING the guy is about to charge you. Airsoft, or redgun, and a practice knife (or spoon) is all you need.
 
Try it sometime, you'd be suprised how many times you get stabbed KNOWING the guy is about to charge you. Airsoft, or redgun, and a practice knife (or spoon) is all you need.

+1

I've had the opportunity to practice the Tueller drill using blue guns and knives and it's scary how often and how badly you get "cut".
 
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