Kittery Trading Post and C&R FFL

[CapeCodder]

I just called KTP as they have an older Shotgun I am interested in. By the serial number, it is more than 50 years old, so qualifies as C&R, and I hold a C&R FFL. KTP said Mass. will not let them ship C&R guns to Mass., I would have to come to their store to buy it.

BS or what ?

 

[tripletaco]

Yes. BS. It is totally legal. However, Massachusetts runs a campaign of fear and confusion. In the end it comes down to what said dealer feels comfortable doing. As with online ammo sales, even when things are doen 100% legal there is nothing to stop Mass AG from threatening law suits or just threatening in general.

 

[76Too]

ftr...just because a firearm is more than 50 years old doesn't mean it qualifies as a C&R. not trying to derail your thread.

 

[drgrant]

I just called KTP as they have an older Shotgun I am interested in. By the serial number, it is more than 50 years old, so qualifies as C&R, and I hold a C&R FFL. KTP said Mass. will not let them ship C&R guns to Mass., I would have to come to their store to buy it.

BS or what ?

It's BS internal rules in their store, you either play their game or don't deal with them.

-Mike

 

[goodzilla]

ftr...just because a firearm is more than 50 years old doesn't mean it qualifies as a C&R. not trying to derail your thread.

Ugh, what?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;
2. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age. However, if you wish for a classification of your particular firearm under categories (b) or (c) above and wish your item to be listed, you may submit the weapon to the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) for a formal classification.
Please note that firearms regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) may be classified as C&R items, but still may be subject to the provisions of the NFA. If your C&R item is an NFA firearm (e.g., Winchester Trappers) and you desire removal from the NFA status, you must submit it to FATD for evaluation and a formal classification.

 

[76Too]

would ya look at that. first time for everything I guess ;D

i stand corrected!

in typical NES fashion I should really argue your source and turn it into a discussion up for debate...which I will disagree with you on everything because you called me out with facts and legitimate sources...so...uhhh...yeah...

i thought for sure it had to be in that 20lb book they send you when you get your license to be eligible.

does this mean in 20 years we can buy AR's again!?!?!

Ugh, what?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;
2. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age. However, if you wish for a classification of your particular firearm under categories (b) or (c) above and wish your item to be listed, you may submit the weapon to the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) for a formal classification.
Please note that firearms regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) may be classified as C&R items, but still may be subject to the provisions of the NFA. If your C&R item is an NFA firearm (e.g., Winchester Trappers) and you desire removal from the NFA status, you must submit it to FATD for evaluation and a formal classification.

 

[76Too]

i'm changing my avatar out of embarassment. for shame!

 

[goodzilla]

i'm changing my avatar out of embarassment. for shame!

Lol, need to put you through the NES Concussion Protocol...how do you feel about cops shooting dogs?

ETA:
Question 2: You are considering taking a female acquaintance shooting for the first time. What's the first question you should ask yourself?

Question 3: Multiple choice. Your co-worker tells you only trained government officials should own guns, quizzes you how your store your guns, and calls you a deranged gun nut. Should you:
A: Shit on his desk.
B: Throw his keys on the roof.
C: Bang his girlfriend/wife
D: All of the Above

Question 4: Name this thread:

I could keep going, but I'll stop... lol

 

[76Too]

Lol, need to put you through the NES Concussion Protocol...how do you feel about cops shooting dogs?

my new avatar should answer your question.

i tried shooting that dog thousands of times as a child.

 

[DW357]

i thought for sure it had to be in that 20lb book they send you when you get your license to be eligible.

Yeah I thought it had to be on that C&R list but not sure.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Big huge pile of poop

 

[milktree]

ftr...just because a firearm is more than 50 years old doesn't mean it qualifies as a C&R. not trying to derail your thread.

Yeah I thought it had to be on that C&R list but not sure.

If it's in the book, it's C&R even if it's less than 50 years old. That's where "curio" comes in.

If it's 50 years old or older, it doesn't need to be in the book, because "at least 50 years old" is one of the definitions of a C&R.

Note that the above is an "or" condition, not an "and" condition. 40 year old Gyrojet is a C&R because it's weird. 60 year old anything, in the book or not, it a C&R because it's old.

Don't over-complicate it.

 

[clancy dogg]

would ya look at that. first time for everything I guess ;D

i stand corrected!

in typical NES fashion I should really argue your source and turn it into a discussion up for debate...which I will disagree with you on everything because you called me out with facts and legitimate sources...so...uhhh...yeah...

i thought for sure it had to be in that 20lb book they send you when you get your license to be eligible.

does this mean in 20 years we can buy AR's again!?!?!

There are AR 15s that are more than 50 years old, right? Didn’t they start making them in 1964 or so? Wouldn’t those be C&R eligible?

 

[EddieCoyle]

There are AR 15s that are more than 50 years old, right? Didn’t they start making them in 1964 or so? Wouldn’t those be C&R eligible?

Yes. Yes they would.

- - - Updated - - -

There are AR 15s that are more than 50 years old, right? Didn’t they start making them in 1964 or so? Wouldn’t those be C&R eligible?

Yes. Yes they would.

 

[DW357]

If it's in the book, it's C&R even if it's less than 50 years old. That's where "curio" comes in.

If it's 50 years old or older, it doesn't need to be in the book, because "at least 50 years old" is one of the definitions of a C&R.

Note that the above is an "or" condition, not an "and" condition. 40 year old Gyrojet is a C&R because it's weird. 60 year old anything, in the book or not, it a C&R because it's old.

Don't over-complicate it.

Good to know, thank you.

 

[Carl in Ct]

Yes. Yes they would.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes. Yes they would.

Yes but still can't buy them in states where they are banned anyway. C&R status doesn't get around state bans.

 

[dhuze]

I wanted to say this.

Ugh, what?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;
2. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age. However, if you wish for a classification of your particular firearm under categories (b) or (c) above and wish your item to be listed, you may submit the weapon to the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) for a formal classification.
Please note that firearms regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) may be classified as C&R items, but still may be subject to the provisions of the NFA. If your C&R item is an NFA firearm (e.g., Winchester Trappers) and you desire removal from the NFA status, you must submit it to FATD for evaluation and a formal classification.

And this. Too slow I guess.

There are AR 15s that are more than 50 years old, right? Didn’t they start making them in 1964 or so? Wouldn’t those be C&R eligible?

 

[76Too]

Yes but still can't buy them in states where they are banned anyway. C&R status doesn't get around state bans.

what if a state ban is just an interpretation and not an actual law?

 

[Peicemaker]

Yes but still can't buy them in states where they are banned anyway. C&R status doesn't get around state bans.

Unless said state bans have an exemption. In MA, a 50+ year old AR is a pre-ban gun, so its technically legal. Probably not down there in the DPRC, though.

 

[sigfanboy13]

would ya look at that. first time for everything I guess ;D

i stand corrected!

in typical NES fashion I should really argue your source and turn it into a discussion up for debate...which I will disagree with you on everything because you called me out with facts and legitimate sources...so...uhhh...yeah...

i thought for sure it had to be in that 20lb book they send you when you get your license to be eligible.

does this mean in 20 years we can buy AR's again!?!?!

You can do that now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jowv167KdbM

 

[Wickedcoolname]

A lot of people tend to forget this section:

Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

I bought a brand spanking new Ruger pistol with my C&R and had it shipped to my house. The first two dealers I tried refused because they apparently only read the first two sections, but the third guy understood that because the price was substantially higher due it being a Bill Ruger commemorative/NRA endowment pistol it did in fact qualify as a C&R.
It kind of takes the fun out of a C&R license if half the dealers in the world don't seem to understand what qualifies and what doesnt.

 

[M125X]

If it's in the book, it's C&R even if it's less than 50 years old. That's where "curio" comes in.

If it's 50 years old or older, it doesn't need to be in the book, because "at least 50 years old" is one of the definitions of a C&R.

Note that the above is an "or" condition, not an "and" condition. 40 year old Gyrojet is a C&R because it's weird. 60 year old anything, in the book or not, it a C&R because it's old.

Don't over-complicate it.

If its its older than 50 years it needs to be i modified. For example a Mosin Nagant with a sport rock would not qualify, but a Mosin with a reproduced original style stock would qualify.

 

[Woody1911a1]

If its its older than 50 years it needs to be i modified. For example a Mosin Nagant with a sport rock would not qualify, but a Mosin with a reproduced original style stock would qualify.

you have to be posting with an iphone . am i right ?

 

[geoguy8]

Well you can always drive up there and get it tax free, and a trip to KTP is never a bad thing...

 

[PATRON]

I just called KTP as they have an older Shotgun I am interested in. By the serial number, it is more than 50 years old, so qualifies as C&R, and I hold a C&R FFL. KTP said Mass. will not let them ship C&R guns to Mass., I would have to come to their store to buy it.

BS or what ?

So go up to KTP,and buy the gun.Then after you buy it ask them if they can give you a copy of what MA. sent them that will not allow them to ship a C&R to you.

 

[Carl in Ct]

Unless said state bans have an exemption. In MA, a 50+ year old AR is a pre-ban gun, so its technically legal. Probably not down there in the DPRC, though.

As usual the CT law is clear as mud. The CT AWB does have a pre-1994 ban exemption which a 50 year old gun obviously would qualify for. It seemed clear enough but I just heard that was tested in court and failed so now I'm not so sure.

I haven't had a chance to actually research that case so it's just speculation on my part. I would be surprised if a CT court didn't leap at the chance to b-slap a gun guy and all gun owners, even if they break the law to do it. As we know the law has no meaning to courts and politicians anyway. They do what suits their agenda/whim.

Since most guys here are MA guys this wont affect many but CT guys please be careful.

 

[RG Sports]

Well you can always drive up there and get it tax free, and a trip to KTP is never a bad thing...

how is it tax free?

 

[M125X]

you have to be posting with an iphone . am i right ?

Yes. Lots of typos. Whoops.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;

Is it me or is this poorly worded. I could make an argument that a Colt 1911 has been manf'd SINCE 1911, ergo as long as it's a Colt, it's C&R. But a Remington WWII era gun would not be. Why even mention replicas? Unless a DESIGN is C&R because it's 50 years old.

Wouldn't that be funny if you could buy AR's on your C&R license because they are over 50yo. Of course, only Colt lowers, but. . . . .

 

[Len-2A Training]

Is it me or is this poorly worded. I could make an argument that a Colt 1911 has been manf'd SINCE 1911, ergo as long as it's a Colt, it's C&R. But a Remington WWII era gun would not be. Why even mention replicas? Unless a DESIGN is C&R because it's 50 years old.

Wouldn't that be funny if you could buy AR's on your C&R license because they are over 50yo. Of course, only Colt lowers, but. . . . .

Each gun must be 50+ yrs old by S/N, not just the model.