Just when you think Boston cannot take it any lower we get this: New proposal for income-based parking ticket fines in Boston

JenkkiMike

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I've lived in Finland and this is exactly how they handle speeding tickets and other court ordered fines. Violators of minor infractions get a fixed "petty fine" but for a more major infraction you get a "day fine" equal to X amount of day's salary. Whenever some millionaire gets in trouble for speeding in his Porsche, the fine is so big that it makes the front page of the trashy newspapers.
 

Len-2A Training

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True, but even more egregious is the fact that the City goons would have to get your personal tax return info to determine what the fine is. Based on past history (noted below) you can be certain that MA DOR (in direct violation of MGL) will be more than happy to provide that info to the Boston goons in charge of ticketing.

NOTE: Sometime in early-mid 1970s everyone's assigned DLs was magically changed to their SSN (DL application forms did NOT ask for SSN back then). In a meeting with a senior attorney for HUD (back then) he told me that DOR illegally gave everyone's SSN to the MA RMV to do this. Of course, they would do this sort of thing again in a heartbeat.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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I've lived in Finland and this is exactly how they handle speeding tickets and other court ordered fines. Violators of minor infractions get a fixed "petty fine" but for a more major infraction you get a "day fine" equal to X amount of day's salary. Whenever some millionaire gets in trouble for speeding in his Porsche, the fine is so big that it makes the front page of the trashy newspapers.

Effectiveness depends on "salary" classification. Steve Jobs famously made $1.00/year in base salary. Are they including stock options and benefit packages there?
 
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Just a thought..................DONT GET PARKING TICKETS!!!!!!!!
The council person that made the bill, said parking tickets were taking food off her table........What part of FOLLOW the LAW don't these people understand????[banghead]

Ok, what do you do when you are issued one erroneously? It's bad enough you have to pay to appeal a speeding ticket. It's not always so cut and dried. But a good statist will always take your opinion.
 

drgrant

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Just a thought..................DONT GET PARKING TICKETS!!!!!!!!
The council person that made the bill, said parking tickets were taking food off her table........What part of FOLLOW the LAW don't these people understand????[banghead]

The meters etc in big dump cities are just revenue scams though.
 

Dadstoys

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Just a thought..................DONT GET PARKING TICKETS!!!!!!!!
The council person that made the bill, said parking tickets were taking food off her table........What part of FOLLOW the LAW don't these people understand????[banghead]

Never worked in Boston huh ?
Some places you take the ticket or don't do the job, end of story.
Many companies factor in the tickets when pricing out jobs in certain parts of the city.
 

Reptile

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Never worked in Boston huh ?
Some places you take the ticket or don't do the job, end of story.
Many companies factor in the tickets when pricing out jobs in certain parts of the city.
Are you talking about tradesmen like electricians and plumbers?

If they have a long job, they are destined to get tickets?

So, they pass that on to the customer?

That's a hoot.
 

doxdsgn

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Willy Sutton is alleged to said, when asked why he robbed banks, "...have to go where the money is." Would seem the councilor proposing the change has this in mind. Yet,another scheme to get money from those with the ability to pay.

To be honest, the cycle of fines, late fees, court costs, towing charges, insurance points and whatever else they can dream up to whack people with, put people in the same financial place as debtors prison, just no bars.
 

grizquad

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Never worked in Boston huh ?
Some places you take the ticket or don't do the job, end of story.
Many companies factor in the tickets when pricing out jobs in certain parts of the city.
I worked for GArelick Farms for a few years and their trucks always got tickets or towed down the street, but that's the cost of doing business. This sliding income scale is for us peons. As a regular peon, I just park in a lot in revere and take the train over the river
 

Dadstoys

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Are you talking about tradesmen like electricians and plumbers?

If they have a long job, they are destined to get tickets?

So, they pass that on to the customer?

That's a hoot.

Yup
Our guys have got tickets while in the middle of unloading a 40' ladder off of the truck in front of a building we were working on.
The other option was trying to single handedly carry it six blocks which was where the nearest parking was.
She was literally writing the ticket as he was struggling to get it off the back of the truck.
He said to her , "Can you cut me a break here ? I'm just dropping this off and going down the road to park. "
She said "Nope" and slapped it on the windshield.

My old man was a union ironworker and since there was little to no parking on the job sites , it was get a ticket every day or don't show up to work.
He wasn't dragging a 300lb job box on the T.

If you chose to live somewhere where service people can't get to , expect to pay more.
 

McReef

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True, but even more egregious is the fact that the City goons would have to get your personal tax return info to determine what the fine is. Based on past history (noted below) you can be certain that MA DOR (in direct violation of MGL) will be more than happy to provide that info to the Boston goons in charge of ticketing.

NOTE: Sometime in early-mid 1970s everyone's assigned DLs was magically changed to their SSN (DL application forms did NOT ask for SSN back then). In a meeting with a senior attorney for HUD (back then) he told me that DOR illegally gave everyone's SSN to the MA RMV to do this. Of course, they would do this sort of thing again in a heartbeat.

Please read to the end before jumping on me...

Playing devils advocate...
On a theoretical level, sliding scales for fines make perfect sense. Fines are Intended to be a deterrent (not a revenue stream as they are often treated), and as such can only “deter” if they sting. The problem is, that is a moving target. Logic would state that if your intent is indeed to deter, a sliding scale would be used.

Now to attempt to redeem myself before the court...
Given what @Len-2A Training said above, plus the fact that we know deterrence is often not the goal, making money is, I think this is an absolutely terrible idea. Whatever logic or “fairness” labels they might try to put on this, we all know full well that is all window dressing. They just want more money out of your pocket, plain and simple. That being the case, F them and the stupid meter-maid Segway they rode in on!
 
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Please read to the end before jumping on me...

Playing devils advocate...
On a theoretical level, sliding scales for fines make perfect sense. Fines are Intended to be a deterrent (not a revenue stream as they are often treated), and as such can only “deter” if they sting. The problem is, that is a moving target. Logic would state that if your intent is indeed to deter, a sliding scale would be used.

Now to attempt to redeem myself before the court...
Given what @Len-2A Training said above, plus the fact that we know deterrence is often not the goal, making money is, I think this is an absolutely terrible idea. Whatever logic or “fairness” labels they might try to put on this, we all know full well that is all window dressing. They just want more money out of your pocket, plain and simple. That being the case, F them and the stupid meter-maid Segway they rode in on!

Ya, I get it. But what about that all men are created equal thing? Just throwing it out there as an alternate idea.

And here is another one for ya:

Class division. This brings it to whole new level. Slippery slope. Hey WTF, why not have different prices for goods based on income? I think it is perfectly logical. Let's make gas taxes based on income. Food definitely should be more expensive for the "rich".

Ya, penalties are intended to be punitive. But the minute you pull crap like this it opens the door for a whole lot of other stuff. No different the restricting certain forms of speech or types or guns we can use. Ya, there may be good intentions initially but somehow, somebody will use it as a precedent to twist and distort and take advantage of the average schmuck. No thank you.
 
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Asaltweapon

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Are you talking about tradesmen like electricians and plumbers?

If they have a long job, they are destined to get tickets?

So, they pass that on to the customer?

That's a hoot.
My close friend owns a union electric shop who works strictly downtown. Tells me the guys all take public transportation or show up early for parking. Most times they start at 6 because of the parking bullshit.
I’ve never once in over 25 years heard him say parking tix are in the bid. It’s a brutal cut throat business so I don’t see room for fat. They work off change orders.
 

McReef

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Ya, I get it. But what about that all men are created equal thing? Just throwing it out there as an alternate idea.

And here is another one for ya:

Class division. This brings it to whole new level. Slippery slope. Hey WTF, why not have different prices for goods based on income? I think it is perfectly logical. Let's make gas taxes based on income. Food definitely should be more expensive for the "rich".

Ya, penalties are intended to be punitive. But the minute you pull crap like this it opens the door for a whole lot of other stuff. No different the restricting certain forms of speech or types or guns we can use. Ya, there may be good intentions initially but somehow, somebody will use it as a precedent to twist and distort and take advantage of the average schmuck. No thank you.
You can’t price goods based on income, that is not a fair comparison. How much money you have has nothing to do with what it takes to make something nor does it effect supply and demand. Fines are not goods, therefore these concepts do not apply. In the real world fines are just additional taxes masquerading as something else.

I will again state for the record that I am not in favor of them doing this, just so we are all clear. In order for me to agree with this, I would first have to agree that the fines they are talking about adjusting are a good idea to begin with, which they are not. Monetary fines for the most part are a piss-poor solution for enforcing law.

My point was intended to be more philosophical in nature. The proposal, in a purely theoretical way, has some merit. I don’t think that can be credibly be denied.

That being said, and this being the real world, we all know this is just .gov looking to squeeze some more money for them to waste. They are just wrapping it up in fancy bullshit wrapping paper to make it sound “progressive”. I vote NAY.
 
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My close friend owns a union electric shop who works strictly downtown. Tells me the guys all take public transportation or show up early for parking. Most times they start at 6 because of the parking bullshit.
I’ve never once in over 25 years heard him say parking tix are in the bid. It’s a brutal cut throat business so I don’t see room for fat. They work off change orders.
Large companies that spend all day delivering around Boston have people who's only job is dealing with parking tickets.

When I used to drive heavy wreckers they would often make me go into Boston and follow around the BTD guy to tow double parked delivery trucks. I HATED that job. It was such bullshit that they would tow these trucks that were literally the lifeblood of the business's in town. Whenever I would tow one, I'd take him to Somewhere just outside Boston and let him go, then hide as long as possible until they would start calling asking where I was.
 

Zappa

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On a theoretical level, sliding scales for fines make perfect sense. Fines are Intended to be a deterrent (not a revenue stream as they are often treated), and as such can only “deter” if they sting. The problem is, that is a moving target. Logic would state that if your intent is indeed to deter, a sliding scale would be used.

Here's how you beat the system>
Parking tickets go to the registered owner of the vehicle, not the driver.
Register your car to your elderly, disabled grandmother, that lives on social security.
It's her income they'll be looking at to determine the fine amounts, not yours.
The extra bonus is you may qualify to have HP plates on the car too, and get the best parking spaces.
 
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Asaltweapon

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Here's how you beat the system>
Parking tickets go to the registered owner of the vehicle, not the driver.
Register you car to your elderly, disabled grandmother, that lives on social security.
It's her income they'll be looking at to determine the fine amounts, not yours.
The extra bonus is you may qualify to have HP plates on the car too,and get the best parking spaces.
FU!!
I’ll register it to my dead grandmother or maybe I’ll find an aunt living in public housing.
 
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