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Just paid $160 non-citizen tax

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So I bought a Garand in the classifieds here, and as a gun is useless without ammo I had gone online to buy some surplus 30.06 to feed it.

Now everyone knows the CMP has a ton of surplus 30.06 ammo so first of all I went there - I knew they only sell Garands to citizens but I was surprised to see they wont sell anything to a non-citizen :(

I ended up going to J&G Sales and ordered there... 2k rds of Lake City at the CMP would be $440 (and I would have got 8 ammo cans as well), 2k rds from J&G costs me $600 (+shipping) and they were the same 20rd CMP boxes (just taken out of the ammo cans).

Exact same ammo, exact same initial source, cost me $160 more as I am a non-citizen.

I really need to get things moving forward with my citizenship application.
 

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I ended up going to J&G Sales and ordered there... 2k rds of Lake City at the CMP would be $440 (and I would have got 8 ammo cans as well), 2k rds from J&G costs me $600 (+shipping) and they were the same 20rd CMP boxes (just taken out of the ammo cans).

So J&G is abusing its privileges as CMP-qualified to resell ammo that is supposed to be for one's own use, at a 50% markup (it kept the cans) ? Stellar.......[angry2]
 
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Looks like J&G are marking up a lot more than 50%:

http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=25097&SearchTerms=J&g,sales

CMP did a swap deal with J&G last year when CMP were selling for $110/500 so J&G probably got it for well under $100, seems like J&G have also raised the price $20/500 more since then (without their cost changing).

Oh well, I had to buy some somewhere and with the ammo market the way it is that was my best option [sad]
 
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CMP prices are going up too. Got the e-mail listing the increases but I'm at work and can't look it up quickly. I think that the 480 rd ( 20rd boxed ) HXP is going up to $110 for a case + shipping.

Joe R. ( who gets pissed off seeing people resell CMP rifles and ammo for a 50% profit. )
 
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Hmmm...never heard of that one before. It sounds like you have gotten conned out of $160. The only regulation concerning resident aliens (permanent residents) I am aware of is the requirement to prove, (in the form of utility bills, a lease or similar), that they have been continually resident in the state for 90 days prior to the purchase. AFAIK this is ONLY for the purchase of the firearm. I could be wrong though.

Still seems daft, especially as a permanent resident has already been background checked by the FBI (and would have been deported if they commited a felony anyway).

I'm in a similar situation....except I have my interview for naturalization in 14 days. I just hope my recent Sig purchase doesn't flag anything bad on their computer.
 
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Len-2A Training

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I ended up going to J&G Sales and ordered there... 2k rds of Lake City at the CMP would be $440 (and I would have got 8 ammo cans as well), 2k rds from J&G costs me $600 (+shipping) and they were the same 20rd CMP boxes (just taken out of the ammo cans).


Mark,

Latest that I've received (dated 5/10/07) SGN lists this ammo (J&G Sales) for $249.90/1K ($500 for 2K)! This is in boxes . . . not sure if that was your comparison or if CMP shipped it in clips for the $440. J&G in clips is $279.94/960 rds ($583 for 2K).

I realize that ammo is kinda like gasoline these days, subject to price increases daily, so either you didn't ask for (or they didn't grant you) SGN pricing (they may not if you don't have an FFL, I've never dealt with them) . . . or there was another price increase after SGN went to press.

Either scenario is quite plausible.
 
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Mark,

Latest that I've received (dated 5/10/07) SGN lists this ammo (J&G Sales) for $249.90/1K ($500 for 2K)! This is in boxes . . . not sure if that was your comparison or if CMP shipped it in clips for the $440. J&G in clips is $279.94/960 rds ($583 for 2K).

I realize that ammo is kinda like gasoline these days, subject to price increases daily, so either you didn't ask for (or they didn't grant you) SGN pricing (they may not if you don't have an FFL, I've never dealt with them) . . . or there was another price increase after SGN went to press.

Either scenario is quite plausible.

I think that is for the Greek 30-06 Len, I went for the Lake City US made stuff even though it was a little more expensive as my reading showed it to have a better reputation.
 
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Hmmm...never heard of that one before. It sounds like you have gotten conned out of $160. The only regulation concerning resident aliens (permanent residents) I am aware of is the requirement to prove, (in the form of utility bills, a lease or similar), that they have been continually resident in the state for 90 days prior to the purchase. AFAIK this is ONLY for the purchase of the firearm. I could be wrong though.

Still seems daft, especially as a permanent resident has already been background checked by the FBI (and would have been deported if they commited a felony anyway).

I'm in a similar situation....except I have my interview for naturalization in 14 days. I just hope my recent Sig purchase doesn't flag anything bad on their computer.

That is correct for purchasing a firearm from a FFL, the Civilian Marksmanship Program is different however in that when it was chartered by Congress they made it a requirement that they could only sell to Citizens.

US Code title 36, subtitle II, part B, chapter 407, subchapter II, section 40732, subsection b states:

Gun Club Members.--The corporation may sell, at fair market value, caliber .22 rimfire and caliber .30 surplus rifles, ammunition, repair parts and other supplies necessary for target practice to a citizen of the United States who is over 18 years of age and who is a member of a gun club affiliated with the corporation.

Guess when the congresscritters wrote that one they forget the bit where the second amendment applies to all persons not just to citizens.
 

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Guess when the congresscritters wrote that one they forget the bit where the second amendment applies to all persons not just to citizens.

The DCM / CMP is not about the Second Amendment; it is about the militia - which non-citizens are not necessarily part of:

a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

10 USC 311
 
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Makes sense I suppose. After all, when the USC was written practically everyone who actually made the effort to get on a boat, sail for 8 weeks, and come to the US was likely to become a citizen.
 
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The DCM / CMP is not about the Second Amendment; it is about the militia - which non-citizens are not necessarily part of:

So why isn't it called the "Citizen Marksmanship Program"?, or maybe the "Militia Marksmanship Program"?

I would love to see what a stink it would raise if they limited sales to "able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard"..... most women and disabled people, as well as our senior citizens would be most unhappy [wink]
 

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So why isn't it called the "Citizen Marksmanship Program"?, or maybe the "Militia Marksmanship Program"?

As it was originally a military program under the Dept. of the Army, the natural distinction was probably military v. civilian.
 
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