"JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS"

calsdad

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This is why a standing army is so dangerous.

Soldiers have no attachment to community, no job in the community, no roots in the community. Their only source of food for their table, their only place to lay their head at night is the military. This is why the vast majority of them will "follow orders".

Reservists on the other hand may have a different reaction to unconstitutional orders.
Exactly.

This is why the founders talked about a standing army as being one of the major threats to liberty - AND - why they promoted the milita system - with the militia NOT being directly reportable to the Federal government. The institution of the National Guard system - which happened right around the same time period when all sorts of other progressive changes were being instituted to this country - took that away.

And you see - the vast majority of people these days are too damn ignorant to even figure out why it was done.

A good contrast in how an actual liberty loving non-top down command society works (as opposed to the one we live in right now) - is how the Swiss high command acted during WW2:

In World War II, the Swiss had defenses no other country had. Let's begin with the rifle in every home combined with the Alpine terrain. When the German Kaiser asked in 1912 what the quarter of a million Swiss militiamen would do if invaded by a half million German soldiers, a Swiss replied: shoot twice and go home. Switzerland also had a decentralized, direct democracy which could not be surrendered to a foreign enemy by a political elite. Some governments surrendered to Hitler without resistance based on the decision of a king or dictator; this was institutionally impossible in Switzerland. If an ordinary Swiss citizen was told that the Federal President--a relatively powerless official--had surrendered the country, the citizen might not even know the president's name, and would have held any "surrender" order in contempt.

When Hitler came to power in 1933, the Swiss feared an invasion and began military preparations like no other European nation. On Hitler's 1938 "Anchluss" or annexation of Austria, the Swiss Parliament declared that the Swiss were prepared to defend themselves "to the last drop of their blood."

When the Fuehrer attacked Poland in 1939, Swiss General Guisan ordered the citizen army to resist any attack to the last cartridge. After Denmark and Norway fell in 1940, Guisan and the Federal Council gave the order to the populace: Aggressively attack invaders; act on your own initiative; regard any surrender broadcast or announcement as enemy propaganda; resist to the end. This was published as a message to the Swiss and a warning to the Germans; surrender was impossible, even if ordered by the government, for the prior order mandated that any "surrender" be treated as an enemy lie.
From: http://davekopel.org/2a/OthWr/Target_Switzerland.htm ( good read BTW)

The Swiss high command basically said: " If we tell you to surrender - don't believe us".

You really think that would happen here? Doubt it. The political elite would make their deal with enemy - sort of like they've already done insofar as things like trade with China, cooperation with countries like Israel and Saudi Arabia, and "treaties" like NAFTA and the UN Gun treaty - and then they expect the rest of us to just go along.

And when we don't - we get beaten down - don't we?

This is why I laugh at people who start talking verbal diarrhea about how we still live in the "republic".
 
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calsdad

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Some how I was blessed with being one to be able to stand alone. I also got into many scrapes for it. During the election between Goerge H.W. Bush and Dukakis, Walter Bickford (Commissioner of F.W & LE) ordered all of us that were with in 50miles of Boston to the state house, for a photo shoot for the Dukakis Campaign, I refused and told them over radio that I wasn't going to comply. I was told that it was an order. To which I replied "Good, Write me up, Please". Well when promotions came, I had to sue for my stripes.

Yes, It is easier to go along and get along, than to stand up and say no.
Resistance to authority exists on different levels.

In order to resist - first you must mentally ackowledge that it is your right to resist.

Most people I've met - including a good portion of people here on NES - can't even mentally accept resistance.

That's the real problem.
 
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Some how I was blessed with being one to be able to stand alone. I also got into many scrapes for it. During the election between Goerge H.W. Bush and Dukakis, Walter Bickford (Commissioner of F.W & LE) ordered all of us that were with in 50miles of Boston to the state house, for a photo shoot for the Dukakis Campaign, I refused and told them over radio that I wasn't going to comply. I was told that it was an order. To which I replied "Good, Write me up, Please". Well when promotions came, I had to sue for my stripes.

Yes, It is easier to go along and get along, than to stand up and say no.
Bravo, sir.

- - - Updated - - -

Never read it through before, Good God cannot people think for themselves ???
Made for a bitchin' Peter Gabriel song. Look up "We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)"
 
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"Just following orders" is a bullshit excuse.

COMPLIANCE is compliance. Whether you are following orders or bullshit laws, you are a coward if you complain that you're only doing what you are told to.
 

warwickben

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I will not let my freedoms be taken from me. This stuff needs to end now . I lived in true fear for years growing up being abused over and over as a kid and I swore to my self I'll never let any one control me, have power over me ever again .
I may not pull a trigger and kill a man but I will not go silently in the night.
 

Roland Deschain

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It was almost go-time for me recently at Friendlies. I got my burger, and it was well done. WELL DONE! Her response: just following orders. McMOLON LABE was my reply. Seriously... come and take them... I wanted medium well.
 

ISOTOX

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Was reading of a similar issues with a group of elderly people on a bus tour at Yellowstone. Locked down in there hotel for a few days and made to drive several hours out of the park non-stop ... I guess what I don't get is the hardline attitude of the Fed....Maybe a practice run for what should be coming in this country...a revolt! But unfortunately to many sheep...
 

Obie1

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Methinks noted libertarian Claire Wolfe's quote from her great book, 101 Things to do While Waiting for the Revolution, is becoming obsolete:

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." –
 

mark056

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I will not let my freedoms be taken from me. This stuff needs to end now . I lived in true fear for years growing up being abused over and over as a kid and I swore to my self I'll never let any one control me, have power over me ever again . I may not pull a trigger and kill a man but I will not go silently in the night.
Just saying it will not make it so, and frankly you don't know what you will do until you have reached your moment of truth. My friend, you are already controlled. If you pay taxes, have a gun license, get a building permit, or any one of literally dozens if not hundreds of things every day. You have already made your deal with the devil, the question is not allowing control over you, but where do you draw your line in the sand ?
 

ISOTOX

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Just saying it will not make it so, and frankly you don't know what you will do until you have reached your moment of truth. My friend, you are already controlled. If you pay taxes, have a gun license, get a building permit, or any one of literally dozens if not hundreds of things every day. You have already made your deal with the devil, the question is not allowing control over you, but where do you draw your line in the sand ?
Yikes my head hurts already! [thinking]
 

warwickben

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Just saying it will not make it so, and frankly you don't know what you will do until you have reached your moment of truth. My friend, you are already controlled. If you pay taxes, have a gun license, get a building permit, or any one of literally dozens if not hundreds of things every day. You have already made your deal with the devil, the question is not allowing control over you, but where do you draw your line in the sand ?
Dammit you got me on paying taxes and license and the little things.
On the same train of thought every day I break little laws in one way or another the same as every one else. Most don't even realize they are .

I've found my line in the sand more then once in my life .
I've had a cop beat the crap out of me when I was 16 at a punk show in Worcester cause "I was on drugs and resisting". when really I have a medical condition and slurred when I went to him to ask him for help since I could barely walk in a straight line and need help to get to my car and my meds .I wasn't a sheep I escaped the er lol and went back to confront him.
 
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Whoever believed they would do the right thing and risk their jobs was a fool in the first place. Even those that are vocal here WILL follow orders when the day comes. They may be nice guys, and even believe that they won't, but in the end, they WILL knock on your door and try to collect. They will have a bazillion excuses for themselves. Human nature. And the lion share of the "molon labe" crowd WILL comply. Also human nature.
Don't attempt to speak for me as to what I will or won't do.

How about I make up stuff you'll do when 'the man' starts to come around. Keyboard commandos stand tall, you shall survive.
 

mark056

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Don't attempt to speak for me as to what I will or won't do. How about I make up stuff you'll do when 'the man' starts to come around. Keyboard commandos stand tall, you shall survive.
No one is speaking for you, but I gotta tell ya that on my experience in living in over six decades, sometimes in trying and difficult circumstances, the most angry and indignant are frequently the ones that fold first. Now Frenchman makes a general statement based on his life experience as a professional soldier in a much tougher outfit than I was ever in and in shitty little places that you probably never heard of because they were part of the former French Colonial Empire but still turn to France for help. Lotsa little wars and "police actions" counter insurgency actions and such that just don't make the newspapers here. I can tell this though in places like that and even places where I've been, men are judged by what they do and not what they say. Nobody has called you out or accused you of anything, yet you are all angry and thin skinned. Why the tough guy posture and why take it so personally when the majority of people are sheep. Both my life and the lessons of history have proven this. Ya know we are all on the same side here ...I hope you are for the 2A. Why be angry at a potential comrade in arms? It just plumb doesn't make sense to me...just askin [wink]
 
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Scarecrow

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Never read it through before, Good God cannot people think for themselves ???
Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment 2009 1/3 - YouTube

I think that is the remake... Someone re-did the experiment a few years back, and people were much better this go around; several refused to continue much past the point the actor on the other end started asking for the experiment to stop, and I don't think anyone went "all the way"
 
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Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment 2009 1/3 - YouTube

I think that is the remake... Someone re-did the experiment a few years back, and people were much better this go around; several refused to continue much past the point the actor on the other end started asking for the experiment to stop, and I don't think anyone went "all the way"
Correct. They were discussing this on NPR recently. It seems many of the experiments seemed to prove the opposite of Milgram's famous example, as each test had results that varied from group to group.
 
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Methinks noted libertarian Claire Wolfe's quote from her great book, 101 Things to do While Waiting for the Revolution, is becoming obsolete:

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." –
Yup.
 

GunGrey

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It was almost go-time for me recently at Friendlies. I got my burger, and it was well done. WELL DONE! Her response: just following orders. McMOLON LABE was my reply. Seriously... come and take them... I wanted medium well.

First off you're eating at friendlies , she did you a favor with that well done burger.
 
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I can't revolt tonight guys, South Park is on.
But that is the scarey truth when your eyes and brain are locked and unable to manipulate on their own. Eyes forward, brain engaged, head on a swivel don't work for the populace. I certainly hope you are able to perform individual think, react and execution when a neg situation blinks, most citizens of this country have no ability to think under stress when decisions of friend or foe have to be made, nevertheless recognize when foe is nearby as they will be disguised as larry law coming to help you, wrong choices will be made and bags will be carried out. Reasons why I and my family moved.
I can sincerely say this, I was at Bragg last night. There are some very, very, serious reservations about this current administration. Colors have been shown and there are many not liking what is being seen.
 
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This is why a standing army is so dangerous.

Soldiers have no attachment to community, no job in the community, no roots in the community. Their only source of food for their table, their only place to lay their head at night is the military. This is why the vast majority of them will "follow orders".

Reservists on the other hand may have a different reaction to unconstitutional orders.
More conservatives need to start realizing this and stop picking and choosing the opinions of the Framers and Founders. Because guess who gets to enforce crappy, evil laws?
 
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More conservatives need to start realizing this and stop picking and choosing the opinions of the Framers and Founders. Because guess who gets to enforce crappy, evil laws?
Please read my above post. Read between the lines. There is a current internal struggle within the .mil with the current civilian authority. With the recent "sequestration" and now this, the.mil puts its ass on the line and get shafted first in line, case in point which is a huge topic of discussion today in the worlds largest Airborne and Special Ops base is, Why do our families take the big hit for the biggest sacrifice, many of the so called " posse members" are a tad fed up with what the civilian authority is throwing at them.
There is a reason there has been a purge of Generals and admiral in the past few years, but the command structure below them is really pissed off.
Figure it out folks.
 
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