Jury: Cops didn't jump the gun in car search

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LoginName

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I'd love to know what took place during deliberations for the jury to arrive at this decision?

WILLIAM LAWLER is convinced that his civil rights were violated during a car stop in which police confiscated his legally owned gun and his permit to carry a concealed weapon.

On Friday, a federal jury was convinced otherwise.

It was a quick midday run to the post office in April 2008 that landed Lawler, an 11-year Army veteran and social-studies teacher, in the back of a police cruiser in handcuffs.

The traffic violation for which he was stopped in Northeast Philadelphia was later dismissed. But cops said that the politically charged bumper stickers on the back of his station wagon, including "Fear the government that fears your gun," led them to ask if he had a gun - which he did - and if he had a permit to carry it - which he did.

"The back of my car is pretty much a billboard for who I am. I'm a political animal," Lawler said in court last week. "This is a legal, peaceful way for me to express my views."

But Lawler was ordered out of his car. Cops searched him and the vehicle, and took his legally owned permit and his 9mm Glock-17. They drove him to the 8th Police District, but never arrested him or charged him with a crime.
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More... http://articles.philly.com/2011-10-...l-gun-owners-concealed-weapons-permit-holders
 
LoginName said:
I'd love to know what took place during deliberations for the jury to arrive at this decision?
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Probably a discussion of what to order for lunch. The guy could be a total assclown, but apparently he violated no laws. Besides getting cuffed and stuffed in the back of a cruiser, he had to spend his time and money to get his gun and license returned to him.

I sometimes joke that the only two groups left that it's politically correct to discriminate against are smokers and fat people. I'll have to add a third group, gun owners.
 
Friday said:
Paging Alan Gura...Alan Gura to the white courtesy phone.....
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The plaintiff/victim isn't suing over his 2nd amendment rights though.

However... the ACLU is showing some interest in the case.

Love'em or hate'em, they do take 1st and 4th amendment issues to heart... even in firearms related cases.
 
From the article, we have no idea as to what the jury heard during trial, so second-guessing them is pointless.

If this bare-bones recitation had been given about the case I sat on, I'm sure that the majority of people here would have said, "WTF?"

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the $25,000 offer was never mentioned, among other things.
 
The end of the article is more troubling and disturbing.

Lawler's Fourth Amendment claim against unlawful search and seizure arose because, he said, cops had no reason to search his body or his car.

Roper said that if Lawler admitted to carrying a licensed firearm, then the police were justified in frisking him and conducting a limited vehicle search to see if he had more guns.

During closing arguments, Shoffel said that Lawler's "completely irresponsible" behavior during the stop had led to his detention.

"The plaintiff's best exhibit was his soapbox," Shoffel said in court. "He says, 'They were looking for a reason to take my gun.' They didn't have to look for a reason. The reason was him. It was the way he was acting."
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Friday said:
Paging Alan Gura...Alan Gura to the white courtesy phone.....
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Here is the problem, the guy should NEVER have taken a jury trial and should likely not have sued for money. But, he wanted the money. Hopefully there is something to appeal, but the jury verdict is not one of them.
 
josh2600 said:
So you would lie if asked if there were firearms in the vehicle? Serious question, I'm not being a dick.
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No, I wouldn't answer the question. Or I would ask if I was free to go or if I was pulled over to check for firearms. But I wouldn't answer the question.
 
MichaelJR said:
Can't let the thought police get that kind of sway over your actions man.
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Can't let some A-hole punk who cut me off in traffic call the PO PO after they see an NRA sticker and say I pulled a gun on them after I beeped the horn just to avoid an accident. I don't want a simple traffic stop to turn into an hour long ordeal either. I also worry about the scum who may want to break into my unattended car or empty house in search of guns to steal after they see these stickers. Call me paranoid but that's how I feel.....
 
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Rick Roma said:
Can't let some A-hole punk who cut me off in traffic call the PO PO after they see an NRA sticker and say I pulled a gun on them after I beeped the horn just to avoid an accident. I don't want a simple traffic stop to turn into an hour long ordeal either. I also worry about the scum who may want to break into my unattended car or empty house in search of guns to steal after they see these stickers. Call me paranoid but that's how I feel.....
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I agree with you. Not just regarding firearm related stickers either, I won't put any stickers at all on my truck, mountain bike gear, political affiliation, nothing. People, especially police officers, make assumptions about who you are by what stickers are on your vehicle. If I want my opinion known, I'll go to a rally.
 
josh2600 said:
I agree with you. Not just regarding firearm related stickers either, I won't put any stickers at all on my truck, mountain bike gear, political affiliation, nothing. People, especially police officers, make assumptions about who you are by what stickers are on your vehicle. If I want my opinion known, I'll go to a rally.
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Exactly. I have a firend who scuba dives but he doesn't put dive stickers on his truck because he doesn't want someone who regularly practices douchebaggery breaking in looking to steal expensive dive gear.
 
Rick Roma said:
Can't let some A-hole punk who cut me off in traffic call the PO PO after they see an NRA sticker and say I pulled a gun on them after I beeped the horn just to avoid an accident. I don't want a simple traffic stop to turn into an hour long ordeal either. I also worry about the scum who may want to break into my unattended car or empty house in search of guns to steal after they see these stickers. Call me paranoid but that's how I feel.....
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You do raise two very good points there, especially the issue of robbery.
 

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