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Judge shuts down North Attleboro Gun Club Until Improvements Made
- Thread starter Buck F
- Start date
Buck F
NES Member
They’re not complaining about the noise or gunzzz (overtly). They’re claiming they have been hit by rounds from the range, which is compete BS. I know the Bartucca boys, both cops, I believe one of the complainants is the father (not sure if he was a cop or not but wouldn’t be surprised). Either that or there are two unrelated Mike Bartuccas in town (I know the complainant isn’t one of the cops I know)
Hmm, I just sold my MA house and it is a 1/4 mile from a range (behind the range, not in the line of fire). I know that the RE agent didn't put the info in the listing. I doubt that the buyer's agent mentioned to the buyers either.
556USER
NES Member
And what is the context of this forum?
FFS, the names and streets of the plaintiffs are in the freaking newspaper story linked at the beginning. Are you saying that you think the people in the forum are incapable of finding out the house number for "Bob Smith from Jones Street" ??
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A little MA history of similar claims/events.
In the 1980s, a guy was shooting a pistol at Massapoag Sportsmens Club (Sharon) and a skip-shot (apparently hit a rock and skipped out of the property) hit the arm of a girl taking a smoking break outside of Crescent Ridge Dairy. The bullet that struck her was spent, didn't break the skin and just hit the ground. She freaked when she saw the bullet. Sharon PD was called, found the shooter (he had no clue what happened), confiscated the gun, MSP Ballistics lab matched the bullet to the gun. The police chief sent the Lt. to serve a cease and desist order on Sharon F&G Club. I was a member of the SF&G BOD at that time. The selectmen backed it up and I challenged the chairman of the selectmen (he's a scumbag lawyer) and his response was "I dare you to re-open, I'll have the club's ass in court" (not precise words, but close). The club was a poor club and had to take loans from members to pay for the baffles on the outdoor range ($14K) before the selectmen and the chief would allow the club to re-open the outdoor range.
I was an active member of Braintree R&P when a number of claims arose. The owner/managers of the buildings merely asked the club to check to make sure we didn't cause the damage, and (as was told to me) admitted that they weren't at all sure that the bullets (also .45ACP) had come from the range. In one case a .45 went thru a 2nd story window and landed on the floor. I'm also told that this was 660 yds from our firing line and the bullet drop at that distance for a .45ACP made it impossible. There are train tracks near those buildings and the most likely scenario is that it was shooters who encroached on the property and purposely used the buildings as backstops. In each case, the club shutdown the outdoor range put up baffles, and increased the height of the berms. We also called in "range experts" from NRA. These guys I am told were from NJ! Their first remarks were "what do you mean you allow shooting without range officers present" and wrote that in their report. Sadly the club president gave that report to the local police department and thus there is no shooting allowed on the pistol or rifle ranges (outdoors) at BR&P without a range officer present.
BTW, Angletree's lawyer is the president of Braintree R&P! I see a similar result in the offing for Angletree.
As much as I hate THE RAT and would love to see the system screw him, I don't like seeing any responsible club getting screwed.
In the 1980s, a guy was shooting a pistol at Massapoag Sportsmens Club (Sharon) and a skip-shot (apparently hit a rock and skipped out of the property) hit the arm of a girl taking a smoking break outside of Crescent Ridge Dairy. The bullet that struck her was spent, didn't break the skin and just hit the ground. She freaked when she saw the bullet. Sharon PD was called, found the shooter (he had no clue what happened), confiscated the gun, MSP Ballistics lab matched the bullet to the gun. The police chief sent the Lt. to serve a cease and desist order on Sharon F&G Club. I was a member of the SF&G BOD at that time. The selectmen backed it up and I challenged the chairman of the selectmen (he's a scumbag lawyer) and his response was "I dare you to re-open, I'll have the club's ass in court" (not precise words, but close). The club was a poor club and had to take loans from members to pay for the baffles on the outdoor range ($14K) before the selectmen and the chief would allow the club to re-open the outdoor range.
I was an active member of Braintree R&P when a number of claims arose. The owner/managers of the buildings merely asked the club to check to make sure we didn't cause the damage, and (as was told to me) admitted that they weren't at all sure that the bullets (also .45ACP) had come from the range. In one case a .45 went thru a 2nd story window and landed on the floor. I'm also told that this was 660 yds from our firing line and the bullet drop at that distance for a .45ACP made it impossible. There are train tracks near those buildings and the most likely scenario is that it was shooters who encroached on the property and purposely used the buildings as backstops. In each case, the club shutdown the outdoor range put up baffles, and increased the height of the berms. We also called in "range experts" from NRA. These guys I am told were from NJ! Their first remarks were "what do you mean you allow shooting without range officers present" and wrote that in their report. Sadly the club president gave that report to the local police department and thus there is no shooting allowed on the pistol or rifle ranges (outdoors) at BR&P without a range officer present.
BTW, Angletree's lawyer is the president of Braintree R&P! I see a similar result in the offing for Angletree.
As much as I hate THE RAT and would love to see the system screw him, I don't like seeing any responsible club getting screwed.
For anyone unfamiliar with the area, here's a satellite view.
The gun club is at the lower left. The two streets where the complaints originated are to the right. The top red line is approximately 1800 feet long and only touches the cul-de-sac at the end of one of the complaining streets (Jacap Drive) Neither red line comes close to the other street (Chris Drive).
FWIW.
The gun club is at the lower left. The two streets where the complaints originated are to the right. The top red line is approximately 1800 feet long and only touches the cul-de-sac at the end of one of the complaining streets (Jacap Drive) Neither red line comes close to the other street (Chris Drive).
FWIW.
Original post had more info. It has been edited to remove stuff. My post has also been edited to reflect that.
Whether it did or didn't, it's not "doxxing" if the people complaining are having their names and streets printed in the paper while their lawyer is being quoted. Seriously, it's in the clear in the newspaper. Why would anyone give a damn if that information is repeated in the forum?
xtry51
NES Member
Seriously? I grew up getting a f***ing phone book delivered to my house with everyone's address. Doxxing is a snowflake bullshit word
safetyfirst2125
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All of you who are saying a pistol bullet cannot travel x number yards or feet...A pistol bullet can travel a lot farther than you think if shot on a parabola. Yeah, it might not have an incredible amount of power at the end, but still.
I posted on the other AngleTree thread that the first time I shot a .357, it jumped on me and I am fairly certain it went over the baffle at an outdoor range. My shot wasn't a little high, it was way high.
I believe the people in this case. With all the rounds fired at a range, is it that hard to believe that one or two or three went off way high and travelled a thousand yards?
I posted on the other AngleTree thread that the first time I shot a .357, it jumped on me and I am fairly certain it went over the baffle at an outdoor range. My shot wasn't a little high, it was way high.
I believe the people in this case. With all the rounds fired at a range, is it that hard to believe that one or two or three went off way high and travelled a thousand yards?
xtry51
NES Member
It is when they have barriers above to stop exactly that from happening.
xtry51
NES Member
It had overhead protection extending from the shooting line (like an awning), and you shot over it? That's not how science, spatial relations or physics work.
Damn, so then how does a .45 bullet find its way through someone's window a half mile away if a no blue sky barrier is in place? If a 45 could even make 880 yards, it would do so via lobbing it like a cannon ball. Of course there's the possibility that some idiot took a shot from somewhere he should not have. Perhaps it was a 45 cal rifle such as 45-70?
The angle of the bullet path through the double panes appears to be roughly correct for the direction of the range to that window. You can see the house orientation and things viewed from that window on Google Earth. Just seems 'off' in vertical angle if from a 45 ACP. If some dipshit at the range skipped one off the ground, I don't think it would carry that far.
The problem is that the judge isn't going to rule by science, but by feels. That's the way things go wrt guns these days. All the scientific data in the world won't help this case.
Mark my words!
Mark my words!
safetyfirst2125
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To clarify, witnesses say the bullet hole in the screen and the window were the same height and round in shape. A bullet traveling 916 yards must be fired at a significant angle to compensate for the drop required to enter a window located 6-15ft off the ground.
The entry holes would be elliptical and aligned with the drop angle.
The math simply doesn’t work if the facts as reported are true.
Look who your talking to.
babygorilla
NES Member
It's okay for your enemy to know you, but not vice versa? Not doxxing is retarded.
EMTDAD
NES Member
can anyone provide ballistics info that would show a 45 bullet making it 600 yds. I can't seem to do it.
www.shooterscalculator.com
ShootersCalculator.com | Ballistic Trajectory Calculator
Calculates the ballistic trajectory of a bullet fired from a rifle, handgun or other firearm. Produces a ballistic trajectory chart and table that shows the drop, velocity, kinetic energy, windage, and trajectory of a bullet.
Asaltweapon
NES Member
and that’s why he’s a proud member of my ignore list. One of the first IIRC.
xtry51
NES Member
can anyone provide ballistics info that would show a 45 bullet making it 600 yds. I can't seem to do it.
ShootersCalculator.com | Ballistic Trajectory Calculator
Calculates the ballistic trajectory of a bullet fired from a rifle, handgun or other firearm. Produces a ballistic trajectory chart and table that shows the drop, velocity, kinetic energy, windage, and trajectory of a bullet.
Using Strelok which I use for rifle and its spot on here is data for RN FMJ 90gr 2,036fps 45ACP with BC .103.
And here is RN FMJ 230gr 825fps 45ACP with BC .266
It seems like the BC of the 230gr let's it make it with substantial energy left over and a hold over of only a little lest than 20ft hold. This is with a 109yd zero. If you move the zero to 50yds, the holdover increases by 10 inches.
groundscrapers
NES Member
Granby was a noise and expansion of use complaint. The range in question is a little different since you have houses in the line of fire within 1000 yds. Any rifle round errantly ND'ed above the berm is going that way.
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