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John Rosenthal Admits to Violating Federal Gun Law

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And the ATF/Dept. of Justice will do what?.... [angry]

On Tuesday, July 10, 2007 John Rosenthal, of Stop Handgun Violence and American Hunters and Shooters Association, was a guest on WRKO 680 AM “Finneran’s Forum” show. Rosenthal was on the show to discuss his organization’s new political billboard slamming the National Rifle Association.

During the show a reporter, Steve Bailey of the Boston Globe, explained how he and Rosenthal had attended a gun show in New Hampshire over a year ago. The trip was supposed to prove how easy it was for criminals to buy a handgun in New Hampshire. They actually found that it was not possible to do so without violating several laws.

Rosenthal explained that when he tried to purchase a handgun from a licensed dealer, he was told he could not because he was not a resident of New Hampshire. Bailey and Rosenthal then explained how they brought a New Hampshire resident with them, supposedly a prison guard, who was able to pass the background checks and purchase the gun for them. Bailey even stated on Finneran’s show that the Boston Globe paid for the gun. When asked by the hosts of the show if he had committed a straw purchase, Rosenthal admitted that he had indeed conducted a straw purchase to prove a point.

Unfortunately for Rosenthal, the point is that he and Bailey had to admit that it was illegal for him to go to New Hampshire and purchase a handgun. He also had to admit that the only way for him to obtain a handgun at the gun show was to do it illegally by conducting a federally prohibited straw purchase and thereby committing a felony. Unfortunately, the person most vocal in Massachusetts about increasing the restrictions on lawful gun ownership has himself committed a gun crime and will most likely never be prosecuted for it. This is yet another example of the great hypocrisy from the anti-civil rights elite.
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http://www.goal.org/news/rosenthalcrimine.htm
 
If he brought it back over state lines, I think I'll contact a friend of mine in the ATF and have this investigated. [smile]
 
Does anyone know if the ATF can give prior approval or consent to do something like that (using investigative/journalistic purposes as an excuse)?
 
He'll never get prosecuted, unfortunately. I'd bet that rosenthal doesn't
even have the gun they strawed, they probably just let the original pruchaser
keep it. Under those terms, it's hard to fully construe a straw purchase if
the actual buyer retains possession of the firearm throughout the
process.

The same way that the private investigators and boob-berg will probably not
get prosecuted for violating federal gun laws and interfering with ongoing
federal investigations.

Meanwhile, you know that damn well, you or I break one of those laws, and
they would have no problem putting our asses on the griddle. (Like they did
to that police officer from AZ who was griddled for trying to help someone in
need buy a firearm. )

"The beautiful people" strike again.... meanwhile everyone else is forced to
play by the rules, except for them. [angry]

-Mike
 
LoginName said:
Does anyone know if the ATF can give prior approval or consent to do something like that (using investigative/journalistic purposes as an excuse)?
Click to expand...

No they cannot unless its part of an active investigation being conducted by a law enforcement agency.

If Rosenthal transported that gun over state lines or took possession of that gun in New Hampshire, he broke the law as did the person who bought it for him and anyone with him who conspired to make the purchase.
 
Finalygotabeltfed said:
No they cannot unless its part of an active investigation being conducted by a law enforcement agency.

If Rosenthal transported that gun over state lines or took possession of that gun in New Hampshire, he broke the law as did the person who bought it for him and anyone with him who conspired to make the purchase.
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Again, they need to ring him up...
 
Prosecute the SOB....I imagine you could be prosecuted under MA, NH and Federal laws.

Oh, and he was trying to prove a point?!?!? What freaking point was that? That it's possible to break the law?????!?!?!?! No f*cking sh*t Sherlock...What you did IS ILLEGAL.....Arrrrrggghhhhh....farking DUMBASS!!!!!!
 
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crap

listen to 96.9 almost all day, when the noise in the shop is low enough to hear it. I realize that this forum maybe public to some point.

but in plain english this guy is a DISGRACE to the human race.
He has to lie to prove a point.

Someone like the atty general should prosecute him for his actions.

Menino has no clue that he is being led by the nose..

JimB
 
Don't know about NH but in MA it is still illegal to attempt to commit a crime. So even if he didn't take possession of the firearm at the show, he still knowingly and unlawfully made attempts to purchase it. I doubt there is a "prove a point" exclusion to such an offense.

How awesome it would be if someone in NH got a copy of his interview and brought charges...
 
TOM-P said:
Who should we make some noise to, MA or NH state police? ATF? I will send a couple of emails.
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All of the above, and be sure to CC the federal attorney's office in Boston.

I'll be calling an ATF agent I know shortly to discuss the matter with him.
 
Ok, writing a letter and here is what I have. Going to write the US Attorney's in Mass and NH and contact the BATF as well.

Here is what I have so far and will try and read feedback in a day then send them.

United States Department of Justice
New Hampshire District
ATAC/LECC Division
53 Pleasant Street
Concord, NH 03301


Dear Attorney Colantuono,

On Tuesday, July 10, 2007 a Mr. John Rosenthal from Massachusetts admitted on “Finneran’s Forum” how he and one Mr. Steve Bailey of the Boston Globe travelled to New Hampshire with the express purpose of obtaining a handgun in violation of many state and federal laws outlawing such pursuits.

Though I now live in Florida, I did live in the state of Massachusetts for about 25 years, and had to undergo what can best be described as jumping through hoops to enjoy the shooting sports, and do so legally within the laws of the state and country I live in. It gets my blood pumping mad that a person who is obviously politcally connected believes he is above the law flaunt it in such a manner that anyone else would be prosecuted to the fullest under numerous federal AND state laws.

For too long people like Mr. Rosenthal talk of how we need more laws on the books to prevent such occurances, yet he goes out willingly to New Hampshire to purposefully break them. As a citizen of the United States, and an avid sportsman and shooter I would like to formally request that your office investigate this matter and if applicable charge Mr. Rosethal AND all his accomplices for breaking Federal Laws reguarding the legal and lawfull purchase of a firearm.

I appreciate the time you have given to read this letter and would hope to hear a response reguading this issue but would understand if none was given due to the day to day operations of the U.S Attorney serving the state and people of New Hampshire,

Sincerely,



Brian M. Vickery
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Skald said:
Ok, writing a letter and here is what I have. Going to write the US Attorney's in Mass and NH and contact the BATF as well.

Here is what I have so far and will try and read feedback in a day then send them.
Click to expand...

excellent.JPG
 
Ah slight problem . . .

You Forgot to mention the straw purchase! Merely asking a dealer in NH to sell you a gun (as a MA Resident) is NOT a crime! If he sells it to you or you use a straw, then they've committed a crime.

You also spent too much ink on your feelings about the laws in MA, etc. which are not at all pertinent to why Rosenthal should be prosecuted.

Please put some meat on them bones so that they become interested in pursuing this. Just based on what I read above, I wouldn't do anything if I were them.
 
LenS said:
Ah slight problem . . .

You Forgot to mention the straw purchase! Merely asking a dealer in NH to sell you a gun (as a MA Resident) is NOT a crime! If he sells it to you or you use a straw, then they've committed a crime.

You also spent too much ink on your feelings about the laws in MA, etc. which are not at all pertinent to why Rosenthal should be prosecuted.

Please put some meat on them bones so that they become interested in pursuing this. Just based on what I read above, I wouldn't do anything if I were them.
Click to expand...

Len. Go check again on Form 4473 Part A.

"Are you the actual buyer of the firearm....".

The person who filled that out broke Federal Firearms Laws by commiting that straw purchase.


Rosenthal explained that when he tried to purchase a handgun from a licensed dealer, he was told he could not because he was not a resident of New Hampshire.
Click to expand...

Now, he knows he is not allowed to purchase said firearm.

Bailey and Rosenthal then explained how they brought a New Hampshire resident with them, supposedly a prison guard, who was able to pass the background checks and purchase the gun for them.
Click to expand...

Now, I tried to dig up what exactly is a straw purchase and came up from the ATF page

A straw purchase is a purchase in which the actual purchaser uses someone else—a.k.a. the “straw person” to make the purchase and complete the paperwork. Generally straw purchasers are utilized because the actual purchaser is not eligible to conduct a transaction because they’re in one or more legally prohibited categories, such as being addicted to a controlled substance, being a felon, being underage, and so on.
Click to expand...

Since Rosenthal is a resident of Mass. and went to NH to buy a handgun, was informed it was illegal for him to purchase a handgun in NH and then went to find a person to get him the handgun in an illegal weapon he did in fact violate the Firearms Act of 1968 which as far as I could tell prohibit a person from buying a handgun in a state which he is not a resident in (unless he has that dealer ship it to a Mass dealer who can then legally sell him the firearm, which was not the case).

Again, maybe one of our lawyers could clear this up for us some.
 
I think the two goons, the New Hampshire resident and the dealer should all be prosecuted in this transaction.

The two goons because they purposely went to commit and illegal transaction, the purchaser as he knew he was buying for someone not legally qualified to make the purchase and the dealer (if it was the same dealer who refused to sell before) for knowingly selling to a New Hampshire reszident on behalf of someone not legally qualified to purchase that firearm.

However, they were able to obtain that firearm. So in that regard straw purchases could be considered somewhat of an issue. Yes, there were lots of hoops they jumped through but they still accomplished their goal and in doing so made criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens.
 
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It should be noted that nowhere does it say that the "Strawman"
actually turned the gun over to Mr. Rosenthal. If this is the case,
proving a straw purchase may be difficult if not impossible.

Sorry, but I am not familiar with the elements of proof needed for
a conviction. Perhaps we have some lawyers reading our posts who
could help us here.

However, it does appear that Mr. Rosenthal and friends did CONSPIRE
to make a straw purchase and took one or more steps necessary to
complete the illegal act. Conspiracy to violate federal gun laws is
also a criminal offense, so Mr. Rosenthal may be in some hot water here.

Consider also, that this alleged incident took place over a year ago.
Who was involved, where is the gun?

Assuming the incident is investigated by law enforcement authorities,
if Mr. Rosenthal and his friends invoke their right to remain silent, gathering
enough evidence for a grand jury indictment will be extremely difficult.

None the less, should Mr. Rosenthal, clam up, we can be confident he is a
criminal. If he denies it ever happened, we can be certain he is a liar.

In either event, it seems to me, the licensing authority in his home town
should be made aware of his antics. Gun runners and liars don't strike me
as "suitable" persons to be granted firearms licenses.

MAJOR D
 
Skald, we agree.

I've been in NH and seen someone not from NH ask if they could buy a pistol. Dealer said no and that was the end of it. No crime.

Same if Rosenthal did that. BUT, as soon as he enlisted someone else to buy it for him, then a crime is committed. As soon as someone lies on the 4473, another crime is committed.

As for his Licensing Authority . . . he is filthy rich and can help/hurt politicians and thus the local police chief. Therefore the standard rules of "suitability" take on a different dimension! VERY UNLIKELY that his chief would ever take action against his LTC or FID unless he was convicted of murder first! [rolleyes]
 
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I think some of us are being a little too optimistic WRT this guy getting it in the rear from the authorities.

MA prosecuting him? This isn't an MA crime, unless he brought the gun
back into MA.... Further, politically speaking, it'd never happen... there
would be too much backdoor politics and it would get toileted. (remember,
MA is fully enabled moonbat state, and rosenthal is their pet yippy jack
russel terrier thing, he's immune. )

NH prosecuting him? Out of all the possibilities, if he violated any NH RSAs
on the issue this might have the highest chance of getting prosecuted
fully. On the other hand NH law is so minimal WRT firearms that I am trying
hard to think of a reg up there that he would have violated under NH
law.

Feds prosecuting him? I doubt it... in that realm:

A few things have to happen:

-The local AUSA/USA, either in NH or MA (Are they in the same district?)
has to grow a pair of balls and try to charge him or the other guys with
something. A lot of smarter USA's don't even bother pushing a case unless
the thing is solid like a rock.... to a lot of them, trying to griddle these
guys might be a huge waste of time. They also know that rosenthal
has enough $$$$$$ to obtain high end counsel to defend against the
charges.... which will make it tougher for a jury to buy into the
assertion that a crime was committed.

Thinking pragmatically, if you were an AUSA, which would be an easier
case to prosecute... a FIP charge on a drug dealer that got caught again
and already has a record, which is a slam dunk case, or a case involving a
GCA violation based on some seriously weak evidence?

-There has to be real evidence that a straw actually took place. Him
bragging about it on the radio is not enough; for all we know that could be a
lie; it's not as if he is speaking under oath. If the original purchaser still
has the handgun, or the handgun has already been passed on through
another legit transfer, it is going to be very hard to prove that rosenthal
ever "possessed" it. It's also going to be a hard sell to a jury that a straw
really occurred, if rosenthal never took possession of the handgun. (he
might have touched it, but him touching it and taking it home with him are
two different things. ) (Edit: I sure as hell am not defending him here, but
let's face it... the evidence is pretty weak, especially if he never took formal
possession!)

What is it they say, possession is 9/10ths of the law?

If you look at some fed case law, straws are usually prosecuted a few
different ways...

-Via a sting operation of some sort; EG, where an ATF agent gets someone
to straw a gun for them, or they catch someone in the act by appearing
out of nowhere when a suspected strawman is trying to make a
purchase, and possibly via investigations into MHP forms and the like where
some moron buys a dozen lorcins and doesn't have a good reason, and
can't tell the ATF where they all went when they show up at his doorstep
to talk to him.

-Via an incidental route- like what happened to that LEO in AZ... while that
case wasn't really a true straw, they used the "fact" that the lady had the
gun and the 4473 form with his name/address on it to start the prosecution
drumbeat.


I want this f*ckstick rosenthal and his cohorts to get prosecuted just like
the rest of you.... problem is I think the reality of it ever happening is
pretty close to zero. I mean seriously... look at Bloomberg's little private
investigator guys, and all the crap they got away with (breaking numerous
federal laws) not to mention that bloomberg himself should also be held
accountable.... a move to prosecute hasn't happened yet and likely never
will. The harsh reality is that the beautiful people, 9 out of 10
times, get a different set of rules than everyone else does. [angry]

-Mike
 
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I commend all of you for writing letters and trying to get someone in authority to care. It has been my experiences over the years that the fourth estate tends to get a pass. If I remember correctly one of the big three news rooms in Boston did the same type of straw purchase in the late 80s and nothing came of it. However with the internet, communication is much easier and so is keeping up the pressure.

B
 
Drgrant,

In a case like this possession means squat, as the act alone is a felony.

Again as far as slam dunk, WRKO appears to record Finneran's Forum because they have audio archives for it. Can't beat the 'defendant' admitting he did the crime over the air.

With a lot of commotion in the Northeast about Gun Trafficking it may prove to our advantage in that the USDA or ADA will see it as a 'we take firearms laws seriously and no one is above them' deal.

But if we sit on our collective asses as gun owners and let it happen, we are truly in a sorry state of being and should just give up our right to own a firearm because we already have the defeatist attitude.
 
Why isn't the GOAL not persuing the straw purchase by Rosenthal. I would have all three brought up on federal charges. By not persuing this the Mass. gun owners and GOAl are capitulatin and showing their lack of backbone. It's no wonder that the antis are winning in Mass.!

He who is silent is understood to consent
 
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