• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

John Paul Stevens wants to amend the Second Amendment....

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, then-Secretary of State:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


My understanding is that the first clause "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State" is separate and distinct from the second clause - "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

Meaning that a well regulated militia also known as a standing army is constitutionally appropriate. Also, that the peoples right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. These are two separate and distinct provisions. One relating to the state, to provide for national defense. The other relating to the individual right to self defense.

Co-mingling the clauses and introducing a dependency of one upon the other is misreading the 2A IMO. It is also an anti-gun argument meant to confuse, obfuscate and dilute the 2A.
 
Last edited:
Win said:
This is actually the appropriate approach for the anti-gun folks. They should not be pretending that the constitution doesn't exist. Instead of writing legislation that runs counter to the constitution, they should try to amend the constitution and see if they have the votes to get what they want.
Click to expand...

This... let them try it. Bring it on, bitches. We'll get the opportunity to give them a huge death-punch that they won't recover from for a generation.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
This... let them try it. Bring it on, bitches. We'll get the opportunity to give them a huge death-punch that they won't recover from for a generation.

-Mike
Click to expand...
I do wish people would stop and think (both sides) about what it means to "punish" your political opposition... We are trading laws that hurt good people and do nothing to improve our lives.

It is a vicious and stupid circle. I am not a religious man, but the golden rule is golden for a reason - it is the foundation of civilization itself.
 
BattleSnail said:
...to read


This old fart needs to hurry up and croake.

http://www.businessweek.com/article...e-amend-the-second-amendment?campaign_id=yhoo
Click to expand...

Steven's interpretation of the 2A is what liberals have been claiming for decades. It's the same interpretation that a majority of SCOTUS rejected in Heller. The liberal interpretation argues that the right to bear arms only applies to the government. Anyone who actually reads the Constitution will probably note that it doesn't give any rights to government; it does give government certain powers. Rights belong to the people. When the Constitution refers to something as a right, it is something held by the people, both collectively and individually. Rights and powers are not the same, and those dead white guys who wrote the Constitution understood that.

I can't believe that Stevens doesn't understand the difference. I can believe that he wishes it weren't so, which is why he proposes amending the Constitution. He does know the difference, he just doesn't like it.

He has my sympathy, and my contempt.
 
cekim said:
I do wish people would stop and think (both sides) about what it means to "punish" your political opposition... We are trading laws that hurt good people and do nothing to improve our lives.

It is a vicious and stupid circle. I am not a religious man, but the golden rule is golden for a reason - it is the foundation of civilization itself.
Click to expand...

I normally agree but these people need to be crushed to the point where they're no longer considered relevant. When someone making up a law transcends being an "annoyance" it's no longer "only political".

Hard core antis are no different than pedophiles, islamo facists, or nazis. "Winning" would be defined as getting these people into that same realm of nearly universal contempt.

-Mike
 
BattleSnail said:
John Paul Stevens [STRIKE=]wants to amend the Second Amendment[/STRIKE]is bored and lonely because his wife is dead and no one cares what he thinks anymore....
Click to expand...

He should know better than most that this is not possible. They have a better chance of reinstating prohibition and slavery. Now would someone please go change his diaper already...
 
Last edited:
Sweet. Since we are changing the Constitution, let's scrap the Commerce Clause.

My wording of 2A (remove the portion in brackets):

{A well regulated Militia, being} necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed!!
 
Last edited:
He basically said this already in his dissenting opinions. I actually want him to stay through Obama's term, because if he retires or dies, then Obama would appoint someone with his same view. So no difference. If, hopefully, a conservative president gets elected next presidential race, and Stevens is still there. No way possible he can make past those four years, and hopefully we get a judge that is like Scalia.
 
mattyw said:
at the time of the constitution weren't all able bodied males considered part of the militia, and it was always ready?
Click to expand...
mi·li·tia
məˈliSHə/
noun
noun: militia; plural noun: militias

  • 1.
    a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
    • a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities, typically in opposition to a regular army.
    • all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service.


    I think you can pull off the second definition if you get a few of your buddys together with their guns for beers while bitching about obama too.

 
Last edited:
Garden12 said:
He basically said this already in his dissenting opinions. I actually want him to stay through Obama's term, because if he retires or dies, then Obama would appoint someone with his same view. So no difference. If, hopefully, a conservative president gets elected next presidential race, and Stevens is still there. No way possible he can make past those four years, and hopefully we get a judge that is like Scalia.
Click to expand...

Sorry to break it to you, but JPS retired a few years ago.
 
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the militia shall not be infringed.
Click to expand...

Go ahead and change it. Makes no difference in my eyes when looking at what is a "militia":

mi·li·tia noun \mə-ˈli-shə\
the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service

Of course, that's sexist and agist, so we're going to have to expand it to women and those who are disabled. As a liberal, clearly even he can't argue that.


ETA - damnit, Sniper pretty much said the same thing while I was taking my sweet time quoting and replying.
 
Last edited:
cekim said:
I do wish people would stop and think (both sides) about what it means to "punish" your political opposition... We are trading laws that hurt good people and do nothing to improve our lives.

It is a vicious and stupid circle. I am not a religious man, but the golden rule is golden for a reason - it is the foundation of civilization itself.
Click to expand...

You can only turn the "other cheek" so many times. I've reached my limit. The other side doesn't know what the golden rule is and if they do they have ignored it for decades. I can't be civil to someone that punches me everytime I turn around. For no reason. Nope! I'm with drgrant... gut punches all around.
 
Last edited:
FreeWillie said:
You can only turn the "other cheek" so many times. I've reached my limit. The other side doesn't know what the golden rule is and if they do they have ignored it for decades. I can't be civil to someone that punches me everytime I turn around. For no reason. Nope! I'm with drgrant... gut punches all around.
Click to expand...

^this. screw the other side, it's time to bury them.
 
BattleSnail said:
...to read

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the militia shall not be infringed.
Click to expand...

This old fart needs to hurry up and croake.

http://www.businessweek.com/article...e-amend-the-second-amendment?campaign_id=yhoo
Click to expand...

The concept of a militia predates any form of government in this country.

The method to change the Constitution is clearly defined and well known - let him give it a try and see how far he gets.
 
Squire said:
2/3 majority of the states to ratify. The other third will secede.
Click to expand...

Probably backwards and it would likely start something terrible.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Pro - typos are from the GD auto correct unless they are funny substitutions those I'll take credit for.
 
Gosh, the most liberal Supreme Court justice alive has a book coming out and it calls for changing the Constitution to make it in line with his liberal viewpoint. The liberal media publishes inflammatory stories to boost sales for the book.

My. Shocked. Face.
 
cekim said:
It is a vicious and stupid circle. I am not a religious man, but the golden rule is golden for a reason - it is the foundation of civilization itself.
Click to expand...

This is a point that is lost on most of the atheists and ***holes out there who spend all their time *****ing about religion and moral codes. The Ten Commandments, and English common law are based on the code of Hammurabi, which goes back to something like 2000 BC and codifies much of what free nations recognize about personal and property rights. The fact that the Bible is the first place it was widely disseminated and adopted is not revelant. The relevant fact is that these fundamental laws dictated how civil people should behave towards one another for society to work,man's for the most part they have worked for several thousand years.

You only have to look at countries where these laws are not observed to see how quickly things go sideways.

ETA: and Hammurabi was ruthless: if you killed a guy's son, your son was killed. If you raped someone's daughter, your daughter was violated in return. That's a lot of incentive to keep it civil.
 

Similar threads

Tyrant NY judge says Second Amendment doesn't exist in her court room
Replies
29
Views
496
appraiser
appraiser
If Biden were to be elected, what actions could he take to support the Second Amendment (2A)?
Replies
13
Views
311
s&w3913
S
Propaganda. This trans person is insanely pro-second amendment.
Replies
8
Views
393
Bigfudge16
Bigfudge16
If Trump were to be elected, what actions could he take to support the Second Amendment (2A)?
6 7 8
Replies
229
Views
3K
In God We Trust
In God We Trust
Joe Biden: “I Used Teach the Second Amendment in Law School… There Are Limitations… You Couldn’t Own a Cannon!” (VIDEO)
Replies
22
Views
482
REM870
REM870
Back
Top Bottom