JetBlue FlyFi and conversing / converting an anti

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So JetBlue has FlyFi now - allows you to surf the web for free on your tablet or smartphone. Great feature, I think - only drawback is they have lots of prohibited sites - porn and guns, but not NES.

Anyone who knows me knows I HATE flying - I had 2 Knob Creek Manhattans with breakfast at Logan before flying out to FT Meyers last week. When I was finally comfortably in my seat, I broke out Guns and Ammo and another gun rag I can't recall because it had a 1911 shootout feature.

The woman sitting next to me was polite, older and curious. "Not to be nosy, but can I ask you a question?" Again, Im happy with the effects of the Creek at this point, so I say certainly.

"Why on EARTH would anyone WANT one of those?" pointing to an ad for an LMT AR-15 in all its tacti-cool, killy marketing goodness.

Sensing this could go either way, I decided that its a 3 hour (turned into 4!!) flight and that she'd be a hell of a lot worse to fly with if I did the usual sarcastic reply, I explained that its a great choice for a lot of reasons like precision target shooting, varmint hunting and self defense.

"Self defense? Seriously? How can you justify that for self defense? My husband has a shotgun he uses for hunting and he told me it more than does the job for self defense without it having the capacity to murder a hundred people."

I reasoned that yes, a shotgun has great effect when used in self defense, but have you shot your husband's shotgun?

"well, yes, he took me to the range once."

Did you like it?

"No! It hurt my shoulder and I found that [working the action] was kind of tough."

Im going to guess you weigh below the 120 lb mark (trying to be complimentary) - a shotgun, and Im going to guess his is a 12 GA, isn't a pleasant experience for most people who don't have a lot of size to them or don't know to get different loadings for the shells.

"It is a 12 GA."

Right. and have you practiced with it since?

"No, it actually scared me."

So if your home is under threat, do you think you could honestly use it to defend yourself?

"Well, maybe, I think so."

Yeah, see that's not what you want in a self defense firearm. You want no doubt whatsoever that if you are going to use it, its going to work and that you're ready to use it with no hesitation, no fear of the mechanism or the recoil.

"what does that have to do with having an assault rifle?"

Everything and everything. This rifle (pointing to the ad), while it really isn't my favorite, is IDEAL for self defense with the right ammunition. Its quick to aim, likely of lighter weight than your husband's shotgun (may have been exaggerating), and recoil-wise, the AR is like shooting a pellet gun compared to firing a 12GA. Whats more - its an autoloader, meaning you aren't racking a slide after taking the first LOUD, jarring shot. That means you'll be able to engage with a follow up shot and more, if you need to.

One of the reasons the AR/M-16 platform is so widely used is because the armed forces is made up of men and especially women of ALL sizes. The .556 round itself is very forgiving to the shooter, not so much to the guy at the other end of the barrel. That's why they switched over from the bigger, more powerful 7.62 NATO round (she glazed a bit here, but did light up when I noted women carry it)

"But do you need that many rounds?"

They make magazines with smaller capacities, sure, but if you're facing the unknown, isn't it better to have more at your disposal? Think of it this way - you made the dreadful decision to have to shoot someone in your home - he or she may have fired back or has the ability to keep fighting....do you want to have 5, 10 shots or 20-30?

"I hadn't thought of it that way."

She actually thanked me and said she'd had conversations with gun people before, but it usually devolved into shouting matches and people over-asserting the second amendment. I thanked her for listening and gave her the 2 magazines and encouraged her to get back on the range and ask someone with an AR to let her give it a whirl.

So I think I did my good 2A deed for this month.
 
Nice job. You are lucky you didn't have the TSA waiting for you at Ft. Meyers. [rofl] Gun mags on a plane, sure that's illegal.

You gave her food for thought and these days, that is a win.
 
Im hoping when she goes back to Newton, where she said she lives, she THINKS of this conversation the next time guns come up in her coffee klatch.

Nice job. You are lucky you didn't have the TSA waiting for you at Ft. Meyers. [rofl] Gun mags on a plane, sure that's illegal.

You gave her food for thought and these days, that is a win.
 
Nice job. You are lucky you didn't have the TSA waiting for you at Ft. Meyers. [rofl] Gun mags on a plane, sure that's illegal.

You gave her food for thought and these days, that is a win.

pre-2001 i got in a shouting match with a deputy at ft. myers.

i think it was about a cheeseburger. it was a long time ago, but i am sure i would have been arrested and sent to gitmo for a cockmeat sandwich in lieu of that cheeseburger today.
 
Not one woman that I have let shoot an AR didn't end up with a big ol' grin and asking for more ammo.
Nice job.
 
Chapeau. You articulated things beautifully. For an impromptu argument, your explanation was very comprehensive and apparently effective. I know I wouldn't have done so well.
 
Good job. One thing to keep in mind when confronted with "you don't need that many bullets...", is bring up statistics on hits. "Why would you need that many?" "Well, trained professionals like police officers usually get a hit 1 of 3 at best. So you need to fire at least three to maybe get one hit, more likely one of five. If you need more than 1 hit to actually stop them, say 2 or 3 hits, now you are up to firing 10 to 15. What if there is more than 1 person attacking your children? Now you are up to needing 20 or 30, no?"
 
Nice job! I've found that if people mention something gun to you that they will listen. If you approach them with the presentation like you did they will listen. Once the defense aspect is addressed they tend to agree and ask why the **** is there a AWB. I have done this with many people and even walmart employees.

Hell I mainly just joined a range so I can take new people out shooting and get them involved.
 
So JetBlue has FlyFi now - allows you to surf the web for free on your tablet or smartphone. Great feature, I think - only drawback is they have lots of prohibited sites - porn and guns, but not NES.

Anyone who knows me knows I HATE flying - I had 2 Knob Creek Manhattans with breakfast at Logan before flying out to FT Meyers last week. When I was finally comfortably in my seat, I broke out Guns and Ammo and another gun rag I can't recall because it had a 1911 shootout feature.

The woman sitting next to me was polite, older and curious. "Not to be nosy, but can I ask you a question?" Again, Im happy with the effects of the Creek at this point, so I say certainly.

"Why on EARTH would anyone WANT one of those?" pointing to an ad for an LMT AR-15 in all its tacti-cool, killy marketing goodness.

Sensing this could go either way, I decided that its a 3 hour (turned into 4!!) flight and that she'd be a hell of a lot worse to fly with if I did the usual sarcastic reply, I explained that its a great choice for a lot of reasons like precision target shooting, varmint hunting and self defense.

"Self defense? Seriously? How can you justify that for self defense? My husband has a shotgun he uses for hunting and he told me it more than does the job for self defense without it having the capacity to murder a hundred people."

I reasoned that yes, a shotgun has great effect when used in self defense, but have you shot your husband's shotgun?

"well, yes, he took me to the range once."

Did you like it?

"No! It hurt my shoulder and I found that [working the action] was kind of tough."

Im going to guess you weigh below the 120 lb mark (trying to be complimentary) - a shotgun, and Im going to guess his is a 12 GA, isn't a pleasant experience for most people who don't have a lot of size to them or don't know to get different loadings for the shells.

"It is a 12 GA."

Right. and have you practiced with it since?

"No, it actually scared me."

So if your home is under threat, do you think you could honestly use it to defend yourself?

"Well, maybe, I think so."

Yeah, see that's not what you want in a self defense firearm. You want no doubt whatsoever that if you are going to use it, its going to work and that you're ready to use it with no hesitation, no fear of the mechanism or the recoil.

"what does that have to do with having an assault rifle?"

Everything and everything. This rifle (pointing to the ad), while it really isn't my favorite, is IDEAL for self defense with the right ammunition. Its quick to aim, likely of lighter weight than your husband's shotgun (may have been exaggerating), and recoil-wise, the AR is like shooting a pellet gun compared to firing a 12GA. Whats more - its an autoloader, meaning you aren't racking a slide after taking the first LOUD, jarring shot. That means you'll be able to engage with a follow up shot and more, if you need to.

One of the reasons the AR/M-16 platform is so widely used is because the armed forces is made up of men and especially women of ALL sizes. The .556 round itself is very forgiving to the shooter, not so much to the guy at the other end of the barrel. That's why they switched over from the bigger, more powerful 7.62 NATO round (she glazed a bit here, but did light up when I noted women carry it)

"But do you need that many rounds?"

They make magazines with smaller capacities, sure, but if you're facing the unknown, isn't it better to have more at your disposal? Think of it this way - you made the dreadful decision to have to shoot someone in your home - he or she may have fired back or has the ability to keep fighting....do you want to have 5, 10 shots or 20-30?

"I hadn't thought of it that way."

She actually thanked me and said she'd had conversations with gun people before, but it usually devolved into shouting matches and people over-asserting the second amendment. I thanked her for listening and gave her the 2 magazines and encouraged her to get back on the range and ask someone with an AR to let her give it a whirl.

So I think I did my good 2A deed for this month.

You missed telling that technically speaking - it's NOT an "assault rifle" - because it's not full auto.

I've gotten into somewhat similar conversations a few times where people get all hinky about "assault rifles" - and I need to inform them that the typical AR or AK that you see a civilian with - is technically not an "assault rifle" because it's not select fire. They often don't get the difference - which I then have to explain to them.

Telling them that a semi-auto AR can be bought for $600-$1000 - and a full auto AR probably starts in the $16,0000 range - is also a good way to demonstrate that the average lunatic on the street is extremely unlikely to get his or her hands on a full auto weapon.

Backing that up by telling them that nobody has been killed with a fully automatic firearm in this country BY A CIVILIAN - in decades - and the last time it happened it was a COP that did it - also goes a long way to reinforce the point that much of what they hear in the news is just out and out bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -

Antis are a lost cause.

Nons are not.

Well done.

You may not have converted her, but "'Cause 'Murica!" would have turned her off!

There's way to many pro-gun people that go off on second amendment rants when something like this happens. In their defense - it gets extremely tiresome to deal with some of the outright lunacy and complete retardation that comes out of the anti gun camp.
 
Good job. One thing to keep in mind when confronted with "you don't need that many bullets...", is bring up statistics on hits. "Why would you need that many?" "Well, trained professionals like police officers usually get a hit 1 of 3 at best. So you need to fire at least three to maybe get one hit, more likely one of five. If you need more than 1 hit to actually stop them, say 2 or 3 hits, now you are up to firing 10 to 15. What if there is more than 1 person attacking your children? Now you are up to needing 20 or 30, no?"

[rofl]

Have you actually read the statistics on shootings or seen what some actual police officers say about their "training"???

Civilians who are forced to defend themselves with guns do it with far less shots than police officers typically do. And conscientious civilian gun owners are often far better trained than the average police officer.

Even a lot of the cops admit this. Many cops only pull their guns out once a year when they have to requalify.

- - - Updated - - -

You should of asked " So, do you think if your husband bought an AR-15 he would suddenly feel the urge to kill hundreds of people?"

Exactly.

" well ma'am - maybe you ought to be worrying more about the fact that you're apparently living with a crazy person who could go off at any moment - than whether or not he has a gun".
 
I tend to reserve the MRRRICA ****Yeah solely for the moonbat liberal types who call me a baby killer because, gee, I take what the Constitution said seriously.

Ive been amazed and stunned, as documented in other posts, by the moonbattery in this state to the point where Im at a loss for words. Its refreshing then, to discuss firearms in a rational, calm manner when the receiver is actually willing to hear what I have to say.
 
I tend to reserve the MRRRICA ****Yeah solely for the moonbat liberal types who call me a baby killer because, gee, I take what the Constitution said seriously.

Ive been amazed and stunned, as documented in other posts, by the moonbattery in this state to the point where Im at a loss for words. Its refreshing then, to discuss firearms in a rational, calm manner when the receiver is actually willing to hear what I have to say.

Were you at the last Boston hearing? There were a few that lost their mind and said that we should all die and are baby killers etc. Buckhunter156 had a fun time giving right back to them as he asked them to sign the citizens petition.
 
I was there. If you go to the statehouse link for the hearings, Im at the top of the second one testifying.

Before we began, I went up to them, handed them ItsTime2A cards....I had heard them going on about how we were Neanderthals who hated kids - I introduced myself by name, told them I had an 8 week old son at home and that I hold a degree in English Literature, philosophy and a minor in theology. I told them that we have the same goal in mind, when it comes to violence reduction and that the name calling and backlash isn't going to win them any favors in the court of public opinion.

They tried to hand the cards back, I told them it wouldn't cause them blisters to actually look us up and see what we're about and who we are. One of them sneered at me and threw it on the ground. I reminded her that she was littering - the other one picked it up.

Im willing to go head to head, every time with people like this - it puts the acid back into my battery and keeps me warm for when I can have a conversation or get an article published that rational people will at least consider.

That said, Im looking forward to the next protest, rally or hearing.

Were you at the last Boston hearing? There were a few that lost their mind and said that we should all die and are baby killers etc. Buckhunter156 had a fun time giving right back to them as he asked them to sign the citizens petition.
 
AngelKing, that was an awesome read. The lady sounds like she was very nice, and clearly more curious than anti - especially since her hubby owns guns.

Have you ever considered writing articles for firearms/tactical magazines or blogs? I think your commentary with this lady could be turned into a great educational article, especially given the current climate. It would certainly make for a wonderful and informative read.
 
I applaud your approach AngelKing, and I think more 2A supporters would benefit from remembering that the vast majority of people just don't have strong opinions on guns one way or the other ("nons"). They're the ones that can be influenced with polite, logical discussions of the facts, as opposed to "MOLON LABE MURRRCA".
 
It helps that she approached you politely too, not all pissed off, your approach in this situation was flawless

I agree. I listen to a couple of psychotherapists on satellite radio shows, and on many occasions I've heard both say that the way one approaches a conversation mirrors how it will end up: ie/ if someone charges in all belligerent, nothing good will come of it, it will just put the other person up in arms. But if we go in calmly, politely, and with courtesy, and are willing to actually hear what the other person has to say, there's a high chance of something good coming out of it.

I think AngelKing scored big here.
 
So JetBlue has FlyFi now - allows you to surf the web for free on your tablet or smartphone. Great feature, I think - only drawback is they have lots of prohibited sites - porn and guns, but not NES.

Anyone who knows me knows I HATE flying - I had 2 Knob Creek Manhattans with breakfast at Logan before flying out to FT Meyers last week. When I was finally comfortably in my seat, I broke out Guns and Ammo and another gun rag I can't recall because it had a 1911 shootout feature.

The woman sitting next to me was polite, older and curious. "Not to be nosy, but can I ask you a question?" Again, Im happy with the effects of the Creek at this point, so I say certainly.

"Why on EARTH would anyone WANT one of those?" pointing to an ad for an LMT AR-15 in all its tacti-cool, killy marketing goodness.

Sensing this could go either way, I decided that its a 3 hour (turned into 4!!) flight and that she'd be a hell of a lot worse to fly with if I did the usual sarcastic reply, I explained that its a great choice for a lot of reasons like precision target shooting, varmint hunting and self defense.

"Self defense? Seriously? How can you justify that for self defense? My husband has a shotgun he uses for hunting and he told me it more than does the job for self defense without it having the capacity to murder a hundred people."

I reasoned that yes, a shotgun has great effect when used in self defense, but have you shot your husband's shotgun?

"well, yes, he took me to the range once."

Did you like it?

"No! It hurt my shoulder and I found that [working the action] was kind of tough."

Im going to guess you weigh below the 120 lb mark (trying to be complimentary) - a shotgun, and Im going to guess his is a 12 GA, isn't a pleasant experience for most people who don't have a lot of size to them or don't know to get different loadings for the shells.

"It is a 12 GA."

Right. and have you practiced with it since?

"No, it actually scared me."

So if your home is under threat, do you think you could honestly use it to defend yourself?

"Well, maybe, I think so."

Yeah, see that's not what you want in a self defense firearm. You want no doubt whatsoever that if you are going to use it, its going to work and that you're ready to use it with no hesitation, no fear of the mechanism or the recoil.

"what does that have to do with having an assault rifle?"

Everything and everything. This rifle (pointing to the ad), while it really isn't my favorite, is IDEAL for self defense with the right ammunition. Its quick to aim, likely of lighter weight than your husband's shotgun (may have been exaggerating), and recoil-wise, the AR is like shooting a pellet gun compared to firing a 12GA. Whats more - its an autoloader, meaning you aren't racking a slide after taking the first LOUD, jarring shot. That means you'll be able to engage with a follow up shot and more, if you need to.

One of the reasons the AR/M-16 platform is so widely used is because the armed forces is made up of men and especially women of ALL sizes. The .556 round itself is very forgiving to the shooter, not so much to the guy at the other end of the barrel. That's why they switched over from the bigger, more powerful 7.62 NATO round (she glazed a bit here, but did light up when I noted women carry it)

"But do you need that many rounds?"

They make magazines with smaller capacities, sure, but if you're facing the unknown, isn't it better to have more at your disposal? Think of it this way - you made the dreadful decision to have to shoot someone in your home - he or she may have fired back or has the ability to keep fighting....do you want to have 5, 10 shots or 20-30?

"I hadn't thought of it that way."

She actually thanked me and said she'd had conversations with gun people before, but it usually devolved into shouting matches and people over-asserting the second amendment. I thanked her for listening and gave her the 2 magazines and encouraged her to get back on the range and ask someone with an AR to let her give it a whirl.

So I think I did my good 2A deed for this month.


Nice job. You were certainly on your toes, I don't think I would have lasted that long. Not that I would have degenerated things into a shouting match with her, but I don't think I could have been as effective- you managed to lead her along without alienating her, and that's a pretty good skill.

-Mike
 
Calsdad, yep I've seen the statistics. I was being generous to the "professionals". I mean if "the only people that should be allowed to have guns have hit percentages well south of 50%, poor ole civilian like me is going to be a lot worse" :)
 
She actually thanked me and said she'd had conversations with gun people before, but it usually devolved into shouting matches and people over-asserting the second amendment. I thanked her for listening and gave her the 2 magazines and encouraged her to get back on the range and ask someone with an AR to let her give it a whirl.

And this is exactly why I don't understand why more people don't take this approach... you're 10x more likely to read something here or elsewhere about how someone went off on an anti (or 'gun nut') or how stupid someone is as opposed to having a reasonable, rational conversation. You're not going to convert everyone with this approach... you're not even going to reach everyone, but when it devolves into name calling, yelling, posturing, etc you're guaranteed to have a 0% success rate. Nicely done!
 
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