Jeffrey Lovell: fatal Chicopee shooting - indicted for manslaughter

Simple question:
How do you break a window by knocking on it? On anything modern you'd be hard pressed to break one with your hands even if you were trying.

If somebody breaks a window I'm going to assume they're not here to spread the good word of Jesus Christ or sell me cookies. If this guy get's manslaughter it's truly a sign of the absurdity of this state. The guy told the kids to "get the f out and stay the f out" and they proceeded to break the window. That's a home invasion.

I guess the lesson here is apparently you have to wait until they bust open the door and rush you. At which point you have to contend with three people who may or may not have weapons. And pretty soon in MA you'll have to be doing it with a bolt action.

Time to move Texas, where you can pretty much walk out of a store and shoot a guy dead who was sticking a coat hanger down your door or shoot a guy in the back who just grabbed a little old lady's purse and ran. Only downside is the pro football isn't nearly as good.
 
Simple question:
How do you break a window by knocking on it? On anything modern you'd be hard pressed to break one with your hands even if you were trying.

If somebody breaks a window I'm going to assume they're not here to spread the good word of Jesus Christ or sell me cookies. If this guy get's manslaughter it's truly a sign of the absurdity of this state. The guy told the kids to "get the f out and stay the f out" and they proceeded to break the window. That's a home invasion.

I guess the lesson here is apparently you have to wait until they bust open the door and rush you. At which point you have to contend with three people who may or may not have weapons. And pretty soon in MA you'll have to be doing it with a bolt action.

Time to move Texas, where you can pretty much walk out of a store and shoot a guy dead who was sticking a coat hanger down your door or shoot a guy in the back who just grabbed a little old lady's purse and ran. Only downside is the pro football isn't nearly as good.


100%
 
If I remember MA Castle doctrine doesn't include your porch, only withing you four walls. He might be SOL.

If that is the only standard.

What about the breaking of a glass?

"Knowing what Lovell knew at the time, what would a reasonable person do?"

I think that a person who has some compassion for Lovell and his family will be cause for a hung jury.

Out of a collection of jurors, I can't imagine ALL of them coming to a guilty plea.

Think about it - he and his wife were on the phone with the cops. It takes a few minutes just to make a call. Prior to the call being made and during the call - Lovell screamed for the kid to go away. The kid was determined all throughout that time to break in and was getting more aggressive at the door. Lovell had his wife to protect, a baby(?). He was dealing with an intense adrenalin rush to get ready to fight for his life to protect himself and his family. He was scared S-less. You average gun owner, in the wake of a attack, normally does not think of "I need to wait till he breaks down my door before I can defend myself and family." The cops have all this on tape about how the kid was escalating his attack on the fragile glass door.

I'm not saying that it was right to shoot him when he did, but a reasonable person may be inclined to do so and that presents enough reasonable doubt against a conviction of manslaughter.
 
What would have happened if the homeowner was a police officer?
Shots fired, ambulance called and no charges would have been filed against him!

Instead an innocent man is in jail against his will and all involved with that process should be charged with kidnapping!
Our justice system is about job security and moving up the pay scale ladder!
The DA should never have charged him!

Gang bangers, drug dealers, troubled youth with long arrest records get leniency by the DA and courts.
But a law abiding firearm owner with a clean record gets jailed and an expensive lawyer bill!

And people wonder why the system doesn't work and how in the hell Trump won the election!
 
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Look at this paragraph from one of the articles.

She said although Lovell testified he was afraid of bodily harm or death to himself and his family, he told police after the incident he believed he was in danger of having his house broken into.She said although Lovell testified he was afraid of bodily harm or death to himself and his family, he told police after the incident he believed he was in danger of having his house broken into.

This goes to the often repeated advice. Don't talk to the cops. They tried to hang him with the "fact" that he only said he was afraid of the house being broken into when first interviewed. Of course, fear of your house being broken into while YOU ARE HOME. Is a fear of bodily harm. Its not like burglars are going to say. "ok, just wait in that room, we'll leave in a few minutes".

Don't talk to cops other than MAYBE to say. "I feared for my life, I didn't want to have to do this, but I didn't have a choice". I've read some articles that advocate for aminimalist statement like this.
 
If you're breaking the glass on someone's door "knocking" AFTER they tell you to GTFO, than you're not at the wrong house. You know what you're doing, you know why your there, and you reap what you sow.

Crime still = punishment in our society.... And if you're willing to B&E into an OCCUPIED home, then you better be prepared to pay the ultimate price.

If I was a juror on this case the guy would walk, and I'm glad he did. Now that he's been acquitted, to be forced to defend himself again is BS. It's double jeopardy and it violates his rights. IDK if it is just a civil case.
 
If I remember MA Castle doctrine doesn't include your porch, only withing you four walls. He might be SOL.

This is correct. MGL C. 278 S. 8A

I know this is old. But this is still interesting. As someone who over 25 years became pretty familiar with CT law. This difference is interesting. CT includes "curtilage" in the area where you do not have a duty to retreat.

Don

p.s. Curtilage is the land immediately surrounding your dwelling. In other words if someone is outside your home, knocking on your window, they are not yet inside your home, but are within the curtilage.
 
We put our home into an irrevocable trust for our two daughters. Jill and I are co-trustees. We told our daughters that cops are scumbags and do not talk to them under any circumstances. Their empty threats about jail, getting kicked out of school, DCF/CPS grabbing them , etc. are pure bullshit! Do not participate in lockdown at school. If SHTF, I pointed out the nearest McDonald's as the rendezvous point. Let them suspend you. Plenty of other schools to transfer to. So sad that we have reached this point. Glad my wife and daughters know how to handle firearms.
 
I know we are getting off track. But I've told my girls to do anything necessary to leave the school. Throw a desk through a window and drop from the window of their second floor classroom if necessary.

Fortunately, my principal knows I'm a good guy and a gun nut. She jokingly says that my number will be the one she calls after 911.
My buddy who is a cop in town who lives right near my kids school also jokes that he'll be coming to my house to get some firarms that the cops don't have access to. Ha

Moving on to talking to Government officials. We talk about "what do you say if they ask you if daddy has guns?". "Do mommy and daddy ever fight". Etc.
They know who they can talk to. They also know not to talk to anyone who has not explicitly been allowed.
 
My buddy who is a cop in town who lives right near my kids school also jokes that he'll be coming to my house to get some firarms that the cops don't have access to. Ha
(You ha, but Charles Whitman was to some degree slowed down
by residents plinking at him with their rifles,
and some loaned theirs to the cops).
 
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