It's not GOAL's fault (Response to STOP ERPO TODAY!!! Thread)

[TayNinh_66]

In another thread an NES member expressed dissatisfaction with GOAL's efforts to stop ERPO. Hard to blame GOAL for the failure to stop passage of the ERPO bill. I didn't agree with their strategy of tying to stop passage of this bill by labeling it "cruel" and "dangerous". Not an effective approach. They would have been better off taking the RI approach of limiting the people authorized to submit ERPO petition to LEO's and mental health professionals. Too late now. Credit to Jim W. for hanging in there. MA statehouse not a receptive environment.

But basically the bill passed due to complete lack of interest from firearm owners. Review some of the recent NES threads and you can deterrmine what interests firearms owners:
Thread on which truck to buy, 98 replies, 933 views,
Thread on boycotting BOA, 83 replies, 1753 views,
Thread on AG v. Exxon, 32 views, 2852 views,
Thread on Syria, 107 replies, 1105 views,
*Thread on ERPO, 39 replies, 1512 views*****

It's clear that NES members are more interested in Trumps Border Wall (71/974) and if grapes are toxic to dogs (64/989)
MVGC passed on the GOAL alert, Andover did not. Wonder which clubs followed Andover's apathetic response.
At this point I see no point in investing any more of my time on 2A issues with such a clear lack of support from NES members.
It's simply not a productive use of my time.

 

[Drix]

I think some people believe its GOALS job to have a event coordinator/cheerleader on staff to rally the troops and quite simply that's not really what they're about.

Personally, I think there's enough call that maybe GOAL should have a division set to coordinate events and gatherings with some regularity. There seems to be nobody taking the activist reins and that honestly is one of our biggest problems. The other problem is that when someone does take those reins either the message is off topic or so poorly executed you end up with four old guys and a Gaston flag bitching about chemtrail mixture on the sidewalk. Because nobody could take it seriously enough to do anything but armchair quarterback.

 

[22lr]

So if more people posted to the thread, it wouldn’t have passed? Dang.

 

[cams]

Respectfully, it sounds like what you’re suggesting is that nobody is allowed to speak of anything except how to fight for 2A.

A lot of folks, myself included, do things quietly and out of public view to support our rights, some have higher profile jobs or even work for the .gov and can’t be walking around dressed like government contractors with 5/11 pants and tactical jackets covered in high speed patches, carrying a sign and atttracting that type of attention, doesn’t mean that we do nothing to support it.

If we all lived and breathed 2A action day and night, nothing else allowed, it would destroy your mentality from the simple frustration of it, other topics however lighthearted or actually amenable to daily life help break it up a bit and is good for morale.

Everybody carry’s some weight and everybody needs a break from it for an hour or a day when all combined with their daily life’s and family issues.

The fight will continue, but don’t assume just because somebody doesn’t post everything they do here night and day, that they do nothing. Some people are much more private about their activities.

My .02 on it. I understand your frustration brother, but don’t let it get to you and just up and quit because you don’t see people screaming in the streets like Antifa idiots.

 

[MagGus1820]

In all reality, unless you are going to vote these pols out in this state, they are going to pass whatever moonbat BS they want to.

 

[Nick Fury]

The same could be said of the threads regarding the 2A rallies this weekend. Sadly the overall posting levels on NES in general is by far the lowest I have seen since I joined. It was a friggen deluge of posting going on back then.

I don't dare draw similar conclusions but the OP does appear to be on to something. Or just skip the message and take it personally. That always works...

 

[Path-Finder]

I feel like in states like Massachusetts you are fighting a losing battle. Face it this is a very liberal state. And even the most conservative gun owners I've met could care less about some of the ridiculous gun laws in Massachusetts because remember even republicans in Mass aren't THAT conservative. I was just talking with a hard core right winger older guy who said people in NH are nuts because they passed constitutional carry. "That puts cops lives at risk" he says. I thought holy crap you're too stupid to even talk too. This is why I've given up on this state. I just keep voting for the best candidates I can and hope the lawsuits pan out for the best.

 

[rchap36]

Here's the problem as I see it most people don't have the time or care enough to take a stand. Till it's to late then they post on here or twitter and that's it. I remember when Mitt was going to sign gun control bill my dad ( RIP) knew people who had Mitts ear and they said beacon hill won't take gun owners serious because at the time in Massachusetts over 200,000 gun owners! And only a few hundred ever show up. So who you going to support? 200 gun owners or 300, 000 gun control

342,622 gun owners in Massachusetts 2015

Ps. I don't care about grammar so please keep your comments ...Thank you

 

[Len-2A Training]

The same could be said of the threads regarding the 2A rallies this weekend. Sadly the overall posting levels on NES in general is by far the lowest I have seen since I joined. It was a friggen deluge of posting going on back then.

I don't dare draw similar conclusions but the OP does appear to be on to something. Or just skip the message and take it personally. That always works...

Did you read the website for the nationwide rallies this weekend???

- It called for open carrying rifles to your state house for the rally. Do you know what the result of that would be in Mass? Arrest (open carrying an unloaded rifle in public is a crime since 1998), they would pass a new law making it even more illegal, etc.

- A friend who is not a GOAL staff member but works hard with them tried to find out who was behind the call for the rallies. Her comment was that she couldn't find any link to a Mass contact or figure out who is behind it (it could be our enemies to make us look like fools). Mike S pointed out essentially the same thing. We (responsible "we") need to be very careful whose cart we hook our horses up to before doing so.

- A Mass-specific issue is that Boston beefed up security in a very big way, starting days ago due to the Marathon. A lot of pro-2A people going to a rally not far from that event this weekend is not a really good idea.

As cams pointed out, some of us work "the back rooms" approach to dealing with 2A issues as opposed to the "in your face, let's rally on a Saturday when the state house is closed and media will give us no coverage" group.

 

[Drix]

Did you read the website for the nationwide rallies this weekend???

- It called for open carrying rifles to your state house for the rally. Do you know what the result of that would be in Mass? Arrest (open carrying an unloaded rifle in public is a crime since 1998), they would pass a new law making it even more illegal, etc.

- A friend who is not a GOAL staff member but works hard with them tried to find out who was behind the call for the rallies. Her comment was that she couldn't find any link to a Mass contact or figure out who is behind it (it could be our enemies to make us look like fools). Mike S pointed out essentially the same thing. We (responsible "we") need to be very careful whose cart we hook our horses up to before doing so.

- A Mass-specific issue is that Boston beefed up security in a very big way, starting days ago due to the Marathon. A lot of pro-2A people going to a rally not far from that event this weekend is not a really good idea.

As cams pointed out, some of us work "the back rooms" approach to dealing with 2A issues as opposed to the "in your face, let's rally on a Saturday when the state house is closed and media will give us no coverage" group.

I moderate an extremely large pro-2a forum, we had no official contact with anyone sponsoring this either. The whole organization seemed convoluted.

 

[headednorth]

In another thread an NES member expressed dissatisfaction with GOAL's efforts to stop ERPO. Hard to blame GOAL for the failure to stop passage of the ERPO bill. I didn't agree with their strategy of tying to stop passage of this bill by labeling it "cruel" and "dangerous". Not an effective approach. They would have been better off taking the RI approach of limiting the people authorized to submit ERPO petition to LEO's and mental health professionals. Too late now. Credit to Jim W. for hanging in there. MA statehouse not a receptive environment.

But basically the bill passed due to complete lack of interest from firearm owners. Review some of the recent NES threads and you can deterrmine what interests firearms owners:
Thread on which truck to buy, 98 replies, 933 views,
Thread on boycotting BOA, 83 replies, 1753 views,
Thread on AG v. Exxon, 32 views, 2852 views,
Thread on Syria, 107 replies, 1105 views,
*Thread on ERPO, 39 replies, 1512 views*****

It's clear that NES members are more interested in Trumps Border Wall (71/974) and if grapes are toxic to dogs (64/989)
MVGC passed on the GOAL alert, Andover did not. Wonder which clubs followed Andover's apathetic response.
At this point I see no point in investing any more of my time on 2A issues with such a clear lack of support from NES members.
It's simply not a productive use of my time.

Post counts on NES do nothing to change shitty laws coming out of Beacon Hill. Neither do emails sent out by clubs. Both are preaching to the choir. Politicians affect the laws that are passed or not passed. Voters affect politicians actions. Create better voters.

The vast majority of voters in MA either want more shitty gun laws, are apathetic to them or are sort of a soft-core anti by default. We'll never change the attitudes of anti's. Changing the attitudes of the people in the middle and shaping the attitudes of kids and immigrants (who tend to be reflexively anti, in my experience) will over time change the attitude of enough of the voting base towards guns to start possibly changing the way politicians on Beacon Hill vote and may get politicians who are more pro-gun (or less anti-gun) elected in the first place.

>Get off NES, ignore your clubs emails and start talking to people who you know ARENT into guns.
>Organize 22lr shoots for kids/cub scouts/boy scouts/girl scouts/Little League/YMCA/etc. Theres shit tons of kids addicted to Call of Duty but have no access to real guns who would shit a brick if you put one in their hands. You wouldnt be able to wipe the smile off their faces. Theyll grow up and register to vote some day.
>Talk to co-workers, neighbors, people at church, nieces and nephews, whoever you know who arent shooters and offer to take them shooting.

 

[Nick Fury]

Some bizarre levels of defensive posturing coming out of this thread. Not sure what to make of it...

 

[cams]

Some bizarre levels of defensive posturing coming out of this thread. Not sure what to make of it...

You’re reading into it too much. Different people, different styles of reaching the goal posts.

 

[Nick Fury]

>Get off NES, ignore your clubs emails and start talking to people who you know ARENT into guns.
>Organize 22lr shoots for kids/cub scouts/boy scouts/girl scouts/Little League/YMCA/etc. Theres shit tons of kids addicted to Call of Duty but have no access to real guns who would shit a brick if you put one in their hands. You wouldnt be able to wipe the smile off their faces. Theyll grow up and register to vote some day.
>Talk to co-workers, neighbors, people at church, nieces and nephews, whoever you know who arent shooters and offer to take them shooting.

This is exactly what I have been thinking for some time as the only solution to our problem. We need fresh and passionate blood to pursue the 2A cause or we will just continue with losses of freedoms.

Post counts might ultimately mean little or nothing but at least in the case of the 2A rallies the lack of action was directly viewed with scepticism. A little more interest would have gone a long way.

 

[PeterC]

I moderate an extremely large pro-2a forum, we had no official contact with anyone sponsoring this either. The whole organization seemed convoluted.

Always interested in following another forum... Pass along a link ?

Thanks,

 

[ADC]

Right now, Jim Wallace communicates to the Legislators and he represents approx 17,000 voters (Members)

In MA we are, according to the NSSF, approx 421,000 law abiding gun owners.

If Jim Wallace communicated to the State house representing 421,000 voters (Members), quite possibly, the outcome would be very different.

We can be members of GOAL without thinking about it 24/7. Just be a member.

Often GOAL's membership views GOAL as the "horse" that pulls the public (the cart)
Really we should have the view, it is the Members(voters) that is the horse pulling GOAL, the cart.

 

[daekken]

Keep in mind this is Northeast Shooters, and not Massachusetts shooters. I think we can all expect how much influence callers from Maine, NH, NY, etc. would have on the bill's passage...

The other topics are not state-specific. I don't think any non-MA residents here wanted ERPO to pass, but keep in mind non-MA residents don't have representation (although arguably neither do Pro-2A MA residents).

 

[ADC]

FWIW, I don't believe the OP is saying we should NOT talk about anything else.

 

[PeterC]

Right now, Jim Wallace communicates to the Legislators and he represents approx 17,000 voters (Members)

In MA we are, according to the NSSF, approx 421,000 law abiding gun owners.

If Jim Wallace communicated to the State house representing 421,000 voters (Members), quite possibly, the outcome would be very different.

We can be members of GOAL without thinking about it 24/7. Just be a member.

Often GOAL's membership virews GOAL as the "horse" that pulls the public (the cart)
Really we should have the view, it is the Members(voters) that is the horse pulling GOAL, the cart.

Exactly - what gives the NRA it's influence ? It's not the name, it's the membership numbers (and we vote). Last week Jim was at Andover Sportsmen's Club and he made a comment about requiring all club members to be Goal members. I would support that.

 

[headednorth]

This is exactly what I have been thinking for some time as the only solution to our problem. We need fresh and passionate blood to pursue the 2A cause or we will just continue with losses of freedoms.

Post counts might ultimately mean little or nothing but at least in the case of the 2A rallies the lack of action was directly viewed with scepticism. A little more interest would have gone a long way.

Long term its absolutely the only solution. Think about it, the other side is doing their best every day to create anti voters though public schools (and increasingly private ones as well), tv, print media, internet, churches and synagogues, and just everyday peer pressure. (When a 7 year old kid gets suspended from school for pointing his finger at another kid at recess and saying "BANG" what kind of message are they putting in that kids brain?) If theres nothing pushing back, eventually the war is lost. It may sound diabolical, but really its a fight over access to other peoples brains. Its like theres an empty slot in peoples heads and we're fighting over who gets to plug their chip in it.

 

[Junior314]

I'm counting down the days and saving my pennies to move out of the POS state.

I called my reps/Senator and was laughed at on one occasion. People in this state want feel good laws that make them feel safe. It's pathetic that there are nearly half a million gun owners in this state and we don't even have 5% representation in GOAL. All that being said none of it has anything to do with a post count on a thread and none of this is GOAL's fault. They are fighting the good fight with limited resources in a state that stopped respecting individual's rights decades ago.

 

[headednorth]

Calling state reps is a waste of time at this point.
Talking to a co-worker the other day, he knows I own guns. Subject of registration came up, he said it good they know who has what (im paraphrasing). I asked why and pointed out that good guys register but theyre not causing the problems and bad guys are causing the problems but dont register. Whats being accomplished? He kind of sat there for a second and then chuckled and said "...yeah, youre right." Thats worth a dozen phone calls to some closet communist state reps office, answered by an Antifa sympathizing twenty-something who is rolling his eyes and giggling the whole time.

 

[In God We Trust]

Calling state reps is a waste of time at this point.
Talking to a co-worker the other day, he knows I own guns. Subject of registration came up, he said it good they know who has what (im paraphrasing). I asked why and pointed out that good guys register but theyre not causing the problems and bad guys are causing the problems but dont register. Whats being accomplished? He kind of sat there for a second and then chuckled and said "...yeah, youre right." Thats worth a dozen phone calls to some closet communist state reps office, answered by an Antifa sympathizing twenty-something who is rolling his eyes and giggling the whole time.

If the state house got 1,000 calls a day about gun rights, nothing would change. It is an act of masturbation.

 

[rchap36]

I find it amazing that gun owners have 100 reasons why things will never change in Massachusetts! And not one idea on how making a change! Most sit on our asses and wait for GOAL- NRA or GOA to fix the laws in Massachusetts.

I remember not long ago Massachusetts gun owners were waiting to move to VT! But now VT has fallen! And if NH not careful, it will fall as well and them ME

A few things we should do and will bring change 1) support GOAL-NRA and GOA 2) unite as one we must stand together set up a rally and post it at every club , gun store, any and all Business that are gun friendly 60 days before the rally.Talk to anyone that will lessen about firearms and what will happen when we lose the 2 amendment

 

[headednorth]

If the state house got 1,000 calls a day about gun rights, nothing would change. It is an act of masturbation.

As far as calls and letters and emails go, I think so. Maybe if an election caught them off guard, was closer than expected and they somehow attributed that to gun issues, maybe that would get their attention. I have to admit Im pretty jaded at this point with regards to politics- local, national, world, whatever. Just think its a bunch of true, honest to God psychopaths who see everyone else not as humans, but as means to their ends. Unless their own lives or careers (and bank accounts) are being affected, you might as well be speaking Greek to them.

 

[Horrible]

I moderate an extremely large pro-2a forum, we had no official contact with anyone sponsoring this either. The whole organization seemed convoluted.

This makes me think troll

 

[rchap36]

Talk to anyone and everyone make November count! ( We can and will )

 

[rchap36]

Who can we get to run against Linksy?

 

[free]

I moderate an extremely large pro-2a forum, we had no official contact with anyone sponsoring this either. The whole organization seemed convoluted.

What forum?

Thanks.

 

[fencer]

OP with all due respect, just because a member does not post in a thread, it doesn't mean he doesn't support an issue. It might mean that he just does not have anything to contribute, or other reasons I don't feel I should have to explain.
And sometimes, I just don't want to publicly announce phone calls I make or donations I send.

I would never presume to tell you how you should spend your time, or what causes are worthy of your support or how you render that support, but it seems to me that if you are gauging what you feel is appropriate level of commitment based upon the number of comments a thread on an internet forum receives, I might suggest that the measure of a person is far more complex than if he chose to type a few words into a thread.
Often times, when I read a thread, if someone has already conveyed my opinion or position, I choose not to repeat it I suppose I could just follow LenS and Derek around NES and add +1 to many of their comments, but often I feel it is unnecessary.

I applaud your passion, and appreciate your commitment, but please rest assured that many of us are just as committed without posting cancelled checks, phone logs or pictures of themselves at rallies or in the crowd at the State House, or commenting in a thread to inform folks that we made a call to our local politician.
There are a handful of people in this world that know I have their backs, no matter what, and I know they have mine. We don't have to say it. We just know. So, although a thread may go without my input, many of us, have your back.